Why some people still don't want to wear mask?

[EdwardA]

I just follow the science and statistics and give a damn about people. It’s an easy thing to do, and costs me little.

The science has just bearly begun, and there been many errors in the statics already found. Just North Carolina by itself had to retract 200,000 positive cases out of it's State numbers. My only point is that people are being overly reactive. Sure, I take measures to protect myself, being very healthy at almost 65, but I'm not very concerned about what other people do. No body's tried to get in my face or anything....and I've seen much worse that worried me more.

 

[Steve]

The science has just bearly begun, and there been many errors in the statics already found. Just North Carolina by itself had to retract 200,000 positive cases out of it's State numbers. My only point is that people are being overly reactive. Sure, I thank measures to protect myself, being very healthy at almost 65, but I'm not very concerned about what other people do. No body's tried to get in my face or anything....and I've seen much worse that worried me more.

Surely, where health and safety are involved, better to be cautious than cavalier. Following the science means just that. If things turn out to be a nothingburger. Great. But the issue in the USA from the beginning is that we've been trying to catch up.

We're also seeing now that the virus is mutating. I recall reading that at least one person has been confirmed to have contracted the virus twice. Herd immunity may not be possible, much as there is no herd immunity to the Flu.

Lastly, there are a lot of folks out there who are taking drugs that may be doing more harm than good (e.g., hydrochloriquine), taking snake oil products that are almost certainly doing more harm than good (e.g., colloidal silver), and just plain doing very dumb things (e.g., gargling or even drinking bleach). The issues with the science aren't issues with science. It's entirely to do with learning more about this particular virus. The epidemiologists know what they're doing. They have dealt with other pandemics, such as SARS. And we can see in those countries where they did follow the science, the work has paid off. In other words, what we're going through now is entirely predictable.

Edit to add: I recently read an article stating that the virus has already mutated into one that appears to be less deadly but more contagious. I'll post a link, if I can find it again.

 

[EdwardA]

Surely, where health and safety are involved, better to be cautious than cavalier. Following the science means just that. If things turn out to be a nothingburger. Great. But the issue in the USA from the beginning is that we've been trying to catch up.

We're also seeing now that the virus is mutating. I recall reading that at least one person has been confirmed to have contracted the virus twice. Herd immunity may not be possible, much as there is no herd immunity to the Flu.

Lastly, there are a lot of folks out there who are taking drugs that may be doing more harm than good (e.g., hydrochloriquine), taking snake oil products that are almost certainly doing more harm than good (e.g., colloidal silver), and just plain doing very dumb things (e.g., gargling or even drinking bleach). The issues with the science aren't issues with science. It's entirely to do with learning more about this particular virus. The epidemiologists know what they're doing. They have dealt with other pandemics, such as SARS. And we can see in those countries where they did follow the science, the work has paid off. In other words, what we're going through now is entirely predictable.

New studies from both John Hopkins and Harvard Medical are showing hydrochloriquine relieves simptoms and works very well when used early. The press won't talk report on it, and others deny it, but both Harvard an John Hopkins are pretty good sources, don't you think?

Look it up using the two schools I mentioned.

 

[Steve]

Here's an article on reinfection:
The Mutations that Caused Covid-19 Reinfection Explained

And another on the mutations:

Are mutations making coronavirus more infectious?

 

[Steve]

New studies from both John Hopkins and Harvard Medical are showing hydrochloriquine relieves simptoms and works very well when used early. The press won't talk report on it, and others deny it, but both Harvard an John Hopkins are pretty good sources, don't you think?

Look it up using the two schools I mentioned.

Oh, FFS:

FDA cautions use of hydroxychloroquine/chloroquine for COVID-19

Covid-19 Story Tip: Hydroxychloroquine Not Recommended for Treatment of COVID-19

Hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19: A Lesson in Study Quality

Note, one of the links above is from Hopkinsmedicine.

 

[Steve]

Just to be clear, something will work at some point, I sincerely hope. We want that to happen. Everyone wants that to happen. So, this isn't a situation where folks have some beef against Hydroxychloroquine and are hoping that it fails. It's precisely to do with following the science and letting the experts figure this out using actual data.

 

[EdwardA]

Just to be clear, something will work at some point, I sincerely hope. We want that to happen. Everyone wants that to happen. So, this isn't a situation where folks have some beef against Hydroxychloroquine and are hoping that it fails. It's precisely to do with following the science and letting the experts figure this out using actual data.

I agree the science could take years, and new studies are always cautionary. They have to go thru lots of testing, and peer review, but there is some political science being confused with real science...and it takes some effort to dig out the difference.

 

[Steve]

I agree the science could take years, and new studies are always cautionary. They have to go thru lots of testing, and peer review, but there is some political science being confused with real science...and it takes some effort to dig out the difference.

Who said years? I don't think it will take nearly that long, though recent trends are concerning. Getting a covid shot each year may be as routine as getting a flu shot, though I hope not.

Regarding an inability to distinguish between political science and medical science (I think political scientists would argue that it is also a "real" science), I do agree with that. This is a medical issue being politicized. Seemingly only in America. Huh. We've managed to work through global pandemics before. SARS, the Bird Flu, H1N1. During previous pandemics we've had republican and democratic administrations... different parties have controlled congress. What's different now? Did the scientists change? No. A lot of the same guys are around in apolitical positions as subject matter experts (e.g., Dr. Fauci). We can see that science is working in other parts of the world, and even in parts of the USA where local leadership has filled the national void. Let's see... hmmm... what could it be?

 

[JR 137]

Surely, where health and safety are involved, better to be cautious than cavalier. Following the science means just that. If things turn out to be a nothingburger. Great. But the issue in the USA from the beginning is that we've been trying to catch up.

We're also seeing now that the virus is mutating. I recall reading that at least one person has been confirmed to have contracted the virus twice. Herd immunity may not be possible, much as there is no herd immunity to the Flu.

Lastly, there are a lot of folks out there who are taking drugs that may be doing more harm than good (e.g., hydrochloriquine), taking snake oil products that are almost certainly doing more harm than good (e.g., colloidal silver), and just plain doing very dumb things (e.g., gargling or even drinking bleach). The issues with the science aren't issues with science. It's entirely to do with learning more about this particular virus. The epidemiologists know what they're doing. They have dealt with other pandemics, such as SARS. And we can see in those countries where they did follow the science, the work has paid off. In other words, what we're going through now is entirely predictable.

Edit to add: I recently read an article stating that the virus has already mutated into one that appears to be less deadly but more contagious. I'll post a link, if I can find it again.

What makes things complicated is that people with antibodies are testing positive months later. Example...

My brother in law is a barber. He needed to take a Covid test to open his shop. On a Sunday he was told he tested positive for antibodies, and negative for the active virus. Then he gets a call on Thursday saying he’s actually positive for both.

He hasn’t been sick for over a year.

He calls the state health department to try to make some sense of it all. He was told by a higher up that they’re seeing about 50% of the people with antibodies testing positive for the active virus even though they’ve got no symptoms. Many were known symptomatic cases that were treated a while back and are over it. Some are asymptomatic people who’ve either had it or have it; there’s no reliable way to distinguish the difference.

This was a few weeks ago. SOB got me quarantined from work until I tested negative. The test sucked. They stuck that pipe cleaner so far up my nose it actually went down and just about touched my tongue. And I asked the woman administering it if it was dipped in gasoline. At least I got a few days off and didn’t lose pay or time off.

 

[Steve]

Gee, I'm surprised no one gets the political aspect, but I will without arguing either side. Some people believe in as much liberty as possible and as little government as possible, making it individual choice. They tend to be conservative. That makes it a political issue. I'm not making an argument in either direction.

I didn't wear one at all until it was state law, then I did. I however, live in a rural area, live alone and don't socialize. I might have considered wearing one sooner in a city environment, by my own choice. I did get the sars-covid 2017 version, it was painful in the upper lungs, but I knocked it down in 2.5 days taking 6000 milligrams vitamin C per day for that time. I have a strong immune system.

I missed this. What exactly did you get in 2017? How was it diagnosed?

 

[JR 137]

Who said years? I don't think it will take nearly that long, though recent trends are concerning. Getting a covid shot each year may be as routine as getting a flu shot, though I hope not.

Regarding an inability to distinguish between political science and medical science (I think political scientists would argue that it is also a "real" science), I do agree with that. This is a medical issue being politicized. Seemingly only in America. Huh. We've managed to work through global pandemics before. SARS, the Bird Flu, H1N1. During previous pandemics we've had republican and democratic administrations... different parties have controlled congress. What's different now? Did the scientists change? No. A lot of the same guys are around in apolitical positions as subject matter experts (e.g., Dr. Fauci). We can see that science is working in other parts of the world, and even in parts of the USA where local leadership has filled the national void. Let's see... hmmm... what could it be?

I think it’ll be quite some time after it’s all said and done before the statistics really tell the full story of infection rate, numbers, death toll, et al. Possibly a few years. Things change way too much in real time to get truly accurate statistics. What the numbers and research tell us today will be dispelled next week when someone else sees a compelling trend. Not politically convenient trend, but actual scientific trend.

 

[Steve]

What makes things complicated is that people with antibodies are testing positive months later. Example...

My brother in law is a barber. He needed to take a Covid test to open his shop. On a Sunday he was told he tested positive for antibodies, and negative for the active virus. Then he gets a call on Thursday saying he’s actually positive for both.

He hasn’t been sick for over a year.

He calls the state health department to try to make some sense of it all. He was told by a higher up that they’re seeing about 50% of the people with antibodies testing positive for the active virus even though they’ve got no symptoms. Many were known symptomatic cases that were treated a while back and are over it. Some are asymptomatic people who’ve either had it or have it; there’s no reliable way to distinguish the difference.

This was a few weeks ago. SOB got me quarantined from work until I tested negative. The test sucked. They stuck that pipe cleaner so far up my nose it actually went down and just about touched my tongue. And I asked the woman administering it if it was dipped in gasoline. At least I got a few days off and didn’t lose pay or time off.

I've been tested, and I agree it sucks, though I was told I have good sinuses for it. LOL. The nurse was in and out pretty quick, and so apart from some involuntary tearing up, I was okay.

 

[JR 137]

I've been tested, and I agree it sucks, though I was told I have good sinuses for it. LOL. The nurse was in and out pretty quick, and so apart from some involuntary tearing up, I was okay.

I did a drive through test. She went so far up and down my nose, and it burned. Then I saw her get another pipe cleaner. I said “you’ve got to do the other too, don’t you?” You could see the grin under the mask while she nodded yes. I said “hurry up before I take off.” The second one was worse. Good thing I didn’t sneeze when that thing was in my nose. It would’ve punctured my brain.

 

[EdwardA]

I did a drive through test. She went so far up and down my nose, and it burned. Then I saw her get another pipe cleaner. I said “you’ve got to do the other too, don’t you?” You could see the grin under the mask while she nodded yes. I said “hurry up before I take off.” The second one was worse. Good thing I didn’t sneeze when that thing was in my nose. It would’ve punctured my brain.

I have terrible sinuses...closed up most of the time. At 65 I'm in much better health than most, even younger. I live alone, have no kids, that makes some of these things easier. If I get sick, I'll stay home and deal with it, either way. I have very good geans (very little illness in my family line), and a very good immune system.

 

[JR 137]

Just to be clear, something will work at some point, I sincerely hope. We want that to happen. Everyone wants that to happen. So, this isn't a situation where folks have some beef against Hydroxychloroquine and are hoping that it fails. It's precisely to do with following the science and letting the experts figure this out using actual data.

There are some people out there who hope everything a certain somebody does fails. Somehow they don’t realize that when unsaid guy fails, everyone fails right along with him.

I wasn’t a fan of 43 in any way. I would’ve done almost everything the opposite way. But I never wanted him nor anyone else to fail. I wanted him to prove me wrong. There’s a huge difference.

Not saying you nor anyone else here falls in the hope for failure camp. But they’re definitely out there, and they’re quite loud about it.

 

[Steve]

There are some people out there who hope everything a certain somebody does fails. Somehow they don’t realize that when unsaid guy fails, everyone fails right along with him.

I wasn’t a fan of 43 in any way. I would’ve done almost everything the opposite way. But I never wanted him nor anyone else to fail. I wanted him to prove me wrong. There’s a huge difference.

Not saying you nor anyone else here falls in the hope for failure camp. But they’re definitely out there, and they’re quite loud about it.

It's always a mixed bag. Sometimes, really good things come out of bad administrations. But at the very least, during things like natural disasters and pandemics, no one wants anyone to fail.

For me, as with most people, there are certain things that are unimportant, some that are important, and some that are non-negotiable. The good he's done is drowned out by the evil. For example, I don't like white supremacists. I do care deeply about our military members and veterans. I care about people who are homeless and disabled. I don't care much about gazillionaire tax cuts. I care about equality and equal representation under the law. In every one of these areas, we're failing as a country right now. Miserably.

I think Trump is the first GOP president in modern history with an unfavorable rating among active duty military personnel, and according to the military times poll from a few weeks ago, he's down 6 points to Biden... which is almost unheard of. And in stark contrast to 2016, where clinton was down almost 20 points to Trump.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The science has just bearly begun, and there been many errors in the statics already found. Just North Carolina by itself had to retract 200,000 positive cases out of it's State numbers. My only point is that people are being overly reactive. Sure, I take measures to protect myself, being very healthy at almost 65, but I'm not very concerned about what other people do. No body's tried to get in my face or anything....and I've seen much worse that worried me more.

The science is early. But there are areas where it is simple and consistent. Masks are one of those.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Surely, where health and safety are involved, better to be cautious than cavalier. Following the science means just that. If things turn out to be a nothingburger. Great. But the issue in the USA from the beginning is that we've been trying to catch up.

We're also seeing now that the virus is mutating. I recall reading that at least one person has been confirmed to have contracted the virus twice. Herd immunity may not be possible, much as there is no herd immunity to the Flu.

Lastly, there are a lot of folks out there who are taking drugs that may be doing more harm than good (e.g., hydrochloriquine), taking snake oil products that are almost certainly doing more harm than good (e.g., colloidal silver), and just plain doing very dumb things (e.g., gargling or even drinking bleach). The issues with the science aren't issues with science. It's entirely to do with learning more about this particular virus. The epidemiologists know what they're doing. They have dealt with other pandemics, such as SARS. And we can see in those countries where they did follow the science, the work has paid off. In other words, what we're going through now is entirely predictable.

Edit to add: I recently read an article stating that the virus has already mutated into one that appears to be less deadly but more contagious. I'll post a link, if I can find it again.

Most recent information I've found suggests (but far from certain) that there's a shorter duration than hoped for whatever immunization the infection provides, but that there's almost certainly still some immunity. That may bring some hope with the more infectious, less dangerous strain, as it may spread immunity with fewer severe cases of COVID. All conjecture at this point, of course. One of the worrying pieces of evidence is that there's one case where someone is known to have developed COVID twice (tested both times), and the second time was more severe than the first.

As you pointed out, there are some clear areas where the science indicates what works and what doesn't (and may even be harmful).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

New studies from both John Hopkins and Harvard Medical are showing hydrochloriquine relieves simptoms and works very well when used early. The press won't talk report on it, and others deny it, but both Harvard an John Hopkins are pretty good sources, don't you think?

Look it up using the two schools I mentioned.

Could you post links to those studies? I'm unaware of any except some very small ones that produced results that are entirely contextual.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

What makes things complicated is that people with antibodies are testing positive months later. Example...

My brother in law is a barber. He needed to take a Covid test to open his shop. On a Sunday he was told he tested positive for antibodies, and negative for the active virus. Then he gets a call on Thursday saying he’s actually positive for both.

He hasn’t been sick for over a year.

He calls the state health department to try to make some sense of it all. He was told by a higher up that they’re seeing about 50% of the people with antibodies testing positive for the active virus even though they’ve got no symptoms. Many were known symptomatic cases that were treated a while back and are over it. Some are asymptomatic people who’ve either had it or have it; there’s no reliable way to distinguish the difference.

This was a few weeks ago. SOB got me quarantined from work until I tested negative. The test sucked. They stuck that pipe cleaner so far up my nose it actually went down and just about touched my tongue. And I asked the woman administering it if it was dipped in gasoline. At least I got a few days off and didn’t lose pay or time off.

As I understand it, there are quite a few cases of folks testing positive twice, but most (like your BIL) have been largely asymptomatic the second time.