Why is there the war on terror?

[Monadnock]

Watch how radical Islam is teaching their kids. See what radical Islam has in planned for the West.

[URL="http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/12min.htm"]http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/12min.htm[/URL]This is what the war on terror is about.

 

[Makalakumu]

Or maybe this is what its about...

Oil, Smoke, and Mirrors

 

[mrhnau]

Watch how radical Islam is teaching their kids. See what radical Islam has in planned for the West.

http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/12min.htmhttp://www.obsessionthemovie.com/12min.htmThis is what the war on terror is about.

Interesting find... scary stuff. a good reminder of why there needs to be a war... the scariest part is the children already accepting the propoganda...

 

[Monadnock]

Interesting find... scary stuff. a good reminder of why there needs to be a war... the scariest part is the children already accepting the propoganda...

Even scarier is the complete rejection of this reality by 50% of our own population.

 

[Kensai]

Interesting find... scary stuff. a good reminder of why there needs to be a war... the scariest part is the children already accepting the propoganda...

Needs to be a war? *Hmmm*.... Fighting fire with fire is always dangerous.

Sorry mate, not having a dig at you, but I'm concerned with the needing to have wars. Wars can be fought in many ways, the better informing of people on every side of the debate, and a more responsible media in the West are for starters as important to me in resolving this issue. This isn't a standard war, side x against side y, who will have a military conflict and whoever wins is right. This is Vietnam on everybodies doorstep, every day of the week, and it needn't be. IMHO.

It's difficult to reconcile with fanatics, but ask yourselves this, are you convinced that you aren't just a little bit fanatical in your own beliefs (to everyone not just you MrH), that we ARE right in enforcing democracy in an Islamic area/state? Who are we to do so? WE'RE the West?!? So? So what? We all have beliefs that we maintain deathlike grips on. Radical Islam could be de-radicalised, but it won't be through war. That much I can assure you. This is a religion that has fought the west to a standstill before, during the Crusades. The War On Terror? Or The Reasoning Against Terror? In many ways we have the wrong people leading us, the world over. Men in suits with vested interests, or radical imams with the same. It's not often I'd agree with John Lennon, but "fighting for peace is a bit like ****ing for viginity". My tuppence.

 

[Andrew Green]

It's difficult to reconcile with fanatics, but ask yourselves this, are you convinced that you aren't just a little bit fanatical in your own beliefs (to everyone not just you MrH), that we ARE right in enforcing democracy in an Islamic area/state?

Those in power make the rules

Europe enforced it's political systems and Christianity on the world not too long ago. Of course America rebelled and made a really big cup of tea in the end...

Radical Islam could be de-radicalised, but it won't be through war.

I agree fully, the way to get a group that thinks you have done them great wrong to stop wanting to do you great wrong is not by blowing up there country and friends / family.

It's not often I'd agree with John Lennon, but "fighting for peace is a bit like ****ing for viginity". My tuppence.

War has solved a lot of issues, and in some cases has been pretty neccessary for one side to get involved. America needed to fight the British, The Allies needed to fight Germany, etc. Those where very real threats that could not be dealt with any other way.

And the language of the war is interesting. "Terrorists" yes, unless they win, or from there sides perspective. Where the French revolotion fighters terrorists? Chopping off the heads of the aristocrats? WOuld calling them terrorists and destroying there land and killing them off have supressed them? Or added fuel to there fire?

I guess what I am saying is that it is easy to look at them and see the violent nature and realise something must be done as they are a threat, if on a minimal level compared to say... Germany in WW1 & WW2, or the USSR durring the cold war. But people aren't "born" that way, this story of why they hate the west goes back many generations, and neither side is innocent in it.

The west may have the moral high ground based on the current situation, but there have definately been times when it did not. And from a Middle Eastern perspective, it's debateable if it does now.

 

[Kensai]

War has solved issues? Perhaps, but it also left 50-60 million dead in WWII, and around 10 million in the "Great" War. Having served in the 2nd Gulf, war definately leaves an unpalatable taste to say the least, and if it's the only way to solve our problems, then this species deserves what it gets. I'll live as a hermit in the south pacific with my family, and just surf as and when I can. :ultracool Ya'll can have big willy fights, just leave me and mine out of it.

But on the whole, je agree with ya, good post mate.

 

[Andrew Green]

War has solved issues? Perhaps, but it also left 50-60 million dead in WWII, and around 10 million in the "Great" War.

Yup, that it did. But what would the cost of not fighting back have been?

If Hitler had been able to conquer Europe, what would the world look like? Would less people have died?

War is bad, but until all sides agree on that it will occasionally become neccessary to prevent a worse situation.

 

[Kensai]

Yup, that it did. But what would the cost of not fighting back have been?

If Hitler had been able to conquer Europe, what would the world look like? Would less people have died?

War is bad, but until all sides agree on that it will occasionally become neccessary to prevent a worse situation.

Aahhahhaaa.... "maybe's". Maybe, maybe not. Who knows what would have happened. I think you could argue that the occassional byproducts of war could be beneficial, ie the suffragette movement after WWI and women gaining political status etc, I just think it's a shame that it took 10 million deaths to do that. I could talk about this over a pint all day in fact. Shame I'm at work.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

it's hard to find a moral high ground in this one.

on the one hand, there's an alarming number of islamic men who are willing to die to stick it to us. and they're willing to kill children and noncombatants to do it.

on the other hand, america's foreign policy over the past 60 years has directly contributed to the number of men who feel like terrorism is an honorable career path.

logically and realistically, america needs to defend itself. but i can't find a moral basis here, just a survival basis.

 

[CoryKS]

Good article by Orson Scott Card: The Only Issue This Election Day

Won't change any minds; those who disagree will continue to disagree, but some of you might like it.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

interesting article, but isn't card kind of a whackjob?

 

[CoryKS]

interesting article, but isn't card kind of a whackjob?

What do you mean? He's the author of a lot of books that I've enjoyed - Ender's Game, Alvin Maker - and he started writing essays after the WTC attacks. Don't know if that makes him a 'whackjob'. He seems to have followed the same path I did: Left-leaning, but disappointed in the Democratic response to 9/11 and the following events.

 

[TonyMac]

If propoganda was so effective I'd be more worried about the pope having been in the hitler youth.

 

[Andrew Green]

Can a "War on Terror" be won?

Or is it just a circle, the more America does to stamp it out, the more people on the other side decide to take up the cause as there country, family, friends, jobs, and everything else in there lives are being destroyed by it?

 

[Kensai]

Can a "War on Terror" be won?

Or is it just a circle, the more America does to stamp it out, the more people on the other side decide to take up the cause as there country, family, friends, jobs, and everything else in there lives are being destroyed by it?

Think you may have hit the proverbial nail on the head there me ol' mucker.

 

[mrhnau]

If propoganda was so effective I'd be more worried about the pope having been in the hitler youth.

Following his fourteenth birthday in 1941, Ratzinger was enrolled in the Hitler Youth - membership being legally required after December 1936, but was an unenthusiastic member and refused to attend meetings. His father was a bitter enemy of Nazism, believing it conflicted with the Catholic faith.

Not a very viable point... same thing with the communist in many countries. Kind of non-optional.

still, I get your point...

 

[Ping898]

If propoganda was so effective I'd be more worried about the pope having been in the hitler youth.

there is a difference between joining and organization that might conflict with your faith when you are an ornery 14 year old than having your faith be defined by those tenants from day one of your birth.

 

[heretic888]

This is what the war on terror is about.

No. The so-called "War on Terror" is about creating and maintaining the PNAC's "Pax Americana" (their words, not mine): a new world order under American leadership.

A number of senior officials within the Bush administration --- Cheney, Bolton, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and so on --- and even President Bush's own brother Jeb have been calling for the military occupation of Iraq since at least as far back as 1997. The pretense that this has anything to do directly with 9/11 or combating global terrorism is a farce. The "War on Terror" was just a marketing scheme to get us in the Middle East.

The reason, of course, that we are in Iraq is because of its strategical location in relation to the rest of the Middle East (makes for a great base of operations in the region) and the oil revenue it was believed it would produce for us.

Of course, things haven't worked out for the PNAC and the Bush Administration as well as they'd have hoped, but that is often the case with ideologues.

Laterz.

 

[Monadnock]

I dunno....that sounds a little too much like a conspiracy theory to me.