Why is their so much disrespect for Karate? And what can we do to stop it?

[Urban Trekker]

The majority(80% not all) karate practitioners I’ve met can’t fight have never been in a fight and don’t fight.

I've been a Karateka for over forty years now, I do kata and I can fight, many of us can.

I think this is key. Someone who has experience fighting while untrained, but then subsequently takes up karate will actually learn things to add to their existing repertoire.

I've never met anyone whose first ever real fight took place as adult. So how would a karate black belt who has never been in a real fight fare against an experienced untrained fighter? I know where I'd be placing my bet.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

So how would a karate black belt who has never been in a real fight fare against an experienced untrained fighter? I know where I'd be placing my bet.

How can an untrained fighter be experienced?

- Well trained defeat fast.
- Fast defeat slow.
- Slow defeat untrained.

 

[Urban Trekker]

How can an untrained fighter be experienced?

By fighting without being trained in a martial art.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

By fighting without being trained in a martial art.

A untrained person may fight the same way 10 years later as he fought 10 years ago. He may correct some of his mistakes through fighting. But he will never be able to develop new fighting skill without proper MA instruction.

 

[Urban Trekker]

A untrained person may fight the same way 10 years later as he fought 10 years ago. He may correct some of his mistakes through fighting. But he will never be able to develop new fighting skill without proper MA instruction.

Maybe, maybe not. But that's all beside the point.

On the flip side of the coin, a trained martial artist with no real fighting experience could be analogous to someone who has been given a recipe but doesn't know how to cook.

 

[JowGaWolf]

A untrained person may fight the same way 10 years later as he fought 10 years ago. He may correct some of his mistakes through fighting. But he will never be able to develop new fighting skill without proper MA instruction.

We see this in all walks of life. In general formal training is better than train on your own. Training on your own often creates tunnel vision where the person can only s"His Way." Formal training means the person will learn "Many ways"

My training on fighting is good. But my training on fighting + Kung Fu Wang Formal training would be greater than my training alone.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

a trained martial artist with no real fighting experience could be analogous to someone who has been given a recipe but doesn't know how to cook.

You have issue with your definition of "trained martial artist". MA training require:

1. partner drill to develop technique.
2. solo drill to polish technique.
3. equipment/weight training to enhance technique.
4. sparring/wrestling to test technique.

If 4 is missing, that person is not "trained".

A trained martial artist with no real fighting experience can only be called a "dancer". You can't expect too much out of a dancer.

 

[Urban Trekker]

You have issue with your definition of "trained martial artist". MA training require:

Nope

1. partner drill to develop technique.
2. solo drill to polish technique.
3. equipment/weight training to enhance technique.
4. sparring/wrestling to test technique.

If 4 is missing, that person is not "trained".

A trained martial artist with no real fighting experience can only be called a "dancer". You can't expect too much out of a dancer.

I never spoke of a trained martial artist who lacked sparring experience. I'm speaking of ones who lack real fighting experience.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I'm speaking of ones who lack real fighting experience.

Do you expect an "experienced untrained fighter" to obtain his experience through street fight? How often can someone have street fight experience?

Do those "experienced untrained fighter" truly exist in the real world? I agree that no MA experience can match against killing experience.

A: How many people have you killed so far?
B: I have only killed 78 guys. If I work hard enough, that number may reach to 100 at the end of this year.
A: I have already killed over 1000 guys so far. You still have a long way to go.

 

[Urban Trekker]

Do you expect an "experienced untrained fighter" to obtain his experience through street fight? How often can someone have street fight experience?

Do those "experienced untrained fighter" truly exist in the real world? I agree that no MA experience can match against killing experience.

A: How many people have you killed so far?
B: I have only killed 78 guys. If I work hard enough, that number may reach to 100 at the end of this year.
A: I have already killed over 1000 guys so far. You still have a long way to go.

Okay, now you're just trying to troll instead of having a meaningful discussion. But whatever.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Okay, now you're just trying to troll instead of having a meaningful discussion. But whatever.

My simple question is does the "experienced untrained fighter" truly exist on this planet? I have not met one yet. Have you?

If you spar/wrestle 15 rounds daily, along with your MA training, you can be a good fighter after 6 years.

How can you accumulate that many street fight experience without being hurt, or being thrown into jail?

 

[jobo]

My simple question is does the "experienced untrained fighter" truly exist on this planet? I have not met one yet. Have you?

If you spar/wrestle 15 rounds daily, along with your MA training, you can be a good fighter after 6 years.

How can you accumulate that many street fight experience without being hurt, or being thrown into jail?

video games

 

[Urban Trekker]

If you spar/wrestle 15 rounds daily, along with your MA training, you can be a good fighter after 6 years.

LOL, no. Only someone who lacks real fighting experience would say this. A real fight never goes the way a sparring session does.

If your kwoon has you guys donning MMA gloves and getting into the cage, then I'll give you that. Anything short of that isn't gonna cut the mustard.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

LOL, no. Only someone who lacks real fighting experience would say this. A real fight never goes the way a sparring session does.

If your kwoon has you guys donning MMA gloves and getting into the cage, then I'll give you that. Anything short of that isn't gonna cut the mustard.

WHy do you automatically assume that they don't spar like that?

 

[Cynik75]

My simple question is does the "experienced untrained fighter" truly exist on this planet? I have not met one yet. Have you?

Football (soccer) hooligans? Antifa members? Proud boys? Violent subcultures( like skinheads, mods, punks)? Biker gang members? Kimbo Slice from backyards fight times? Ordinary assholes who like to fight when drunk? Jesus, even "west side story" is about street violence.
I was antifa guy (SHARP) skinhead when I was 16-21. More than 50 fights, scuffles, scrimmages from 1:1 to 100:100. Empty handed or with both sides armed with bats, knives, chains, knuckle dusters etc. Really a lot of experience without any martial arts training.
Experience does not make anybody skilled fighter. Experience makes people calm, makes people good tactician, helps people no to make stupid things, removes tunel vision but it is not the best way to learn new skills.

How can you accumulate that many street fight experience without being hurt, or being thrown into jail?

With a lot of luck

 

[Urban Trekker]

WHy do you automatically assume that they don't spar like that?

Because that wouldn't be sparring. It would be an actual match.

 

[jobo]

Because that wouldn't be sparring. It would be an actual match.

you've clearly havent got much sparing exsperiance

 

[Urban Trekker]

Football (soccer) hooligans? Antifa members? Proud boys? Violent subcultures( like skinheads, mods, punks)? Biker gang members? Kimbo Slice from backyards fight times? Ordinary assholes who like to fight when drunk? Jesus, even "west side story" is about street violence.

^^^This. People can't possibly be so sheltered that they actually believe fights aren't happening out there. Someone asking these questions must be trolling, which is why I didn't answer.

 

[jobo]

Football (soccer) hooligans? Antifa members? Proud boys? Violent subcultures( like skinheads, mods, punks)? Biker gang members? Kimbo Slice from backyards fight times? Ordinary assholes who like to fight when drunk? Jesus, even "west side story" is about street violence.
I was antifa guy (SHARP) skinhead when I was 16-21. More than 50 fights, scuffles, scrimmages from 1:1 to 100:100. Empty handed or with both sides armed with bats, knives, chains, knuckle dusters etc. Really a lot of experience without any martial arts training.
Experience does not make anybody skilled fighter. Experience makes people calm, makes people good tactician, helps people no to make stupid things, removes tunel vision but it is not the best way to learn new skills.

With a lot of luck

if fighting is a skill, rather than intuative which I rather think it is, then practice will have the effect of increasing that skill level, tactic and calmness are part of that skill set, not distinct from it

 

[Urban Trekker]

you've clearly havent got much sparing exsperiance

Yeah, please show me a place that has sparring sessions where people are getting their noses broken by their opponents on a regular basis.