why do they do it?

[andyjeffries]

In regards to your off-topic post, a simple yes/no wouldn't suffice

Out of interest, why would a yes/no not suffice? Regardless of the validity of the claims on the other board (which if you want to argue back, feel free to take that to bullshido to argue your case), the simple yes/no question is - is your real name "David Schultz"?

It's not a massive question and if you are "the real deal" as it were (rather than what was being said on bullshido) then it shouldn't be a problem giving people your real name.

My profile is in my real name - Andy Jeffries. My Kukkiwon number is 5059035, I'm a 5th Dan and I live in Stevenage, Herts (training at Stevenage Taekwondo under Master Carl Lees).

See, what's the difficulty with clearly stating "this is who I am"?

This isn't attacking you, it's just asking "rather than post in the name of an art, who are you as a person?".

 

[miguksaram]

Hi Jeremy. Odd to see you in this thread, though not totally unexpected.

Why is it odd to see me in this thread?
[/quote]I use the word 'forced' as it is Earl's own wording. Quality control? Really? [/quote]
Yes...really.

Many schools have excellent students that eventually become excellent instructors without withholding their certificates.

Ok. So then are you saying that all instructors should follow other schools' examples and disregard their own process simply because the other schools' net good results?

Wow, that was a mouth full! First of all, we're discussing first Dans. Nothing has been mentioned about them becoming instructors, taking seminars or faking their way to the top and becoming grandmasters.

Actually the discussion was about instructors who never follow through and get the certificates that they promised to the students who paid them a good amount of money for. You brought up Mst. Weiss's process, which actually has no connection to the OP's original topic, since Mst. Weiss informs his students up front about his process.

As for only discussing first dans, do you think that first dans are not capable of such things? You said yourself there are many students who train in several arts then once they reach 1st dan they set off to other schools. They would be more prime to do such a thing then say 3rd or 4th dans who have actually put more time in to one art.

Do you know of any in particular that have gained experience/certification to the BB rank in different arts that have faked their names to become instant grandmasters? Who are they? What is your evidence that they are sub-par? Have you seen them teach a class? Are you familar with their material? In what way have they faked their way to the top? And top of what?

Yes, I do know of a few. No I will not name names here or in PM. My evidence is research that I did which involved not only the KKW, but also involved contacting other instructors both CONUS and other countries who he/she conned. Yes, I have met said person, seen their class and very familiar with what they were claiming to teach. They have faked their ranks, how they obtained ranks, distributed ranks which they had not authority to distribute.

Many have become quite proficient in several different types of arts and don't wish to focus solely upon just one art.

And many have become jack of all master of none as well.

That is their right if they chose and not up to others to determine what is best for them.

I do not believe that is in question. They all have a choice. In Mst. Weiss's case, if they do not wish to stay with him within the allotted time, then they lose the opportunity to receive their certificate. Also, I do not believe Mst. Weiss prohibits training outside of the school. He can answer that for certain.

I never said Earl wasn't a qualified instructor.

By making a statement that he should you should rely upon his abilities as an instructor rather than forcing a student into an arbitrary standard is just another way of calling into questions his qualifications.

Being recognized and held in high regard by Korean GM's really doesn't mean a lot to me, but if you say so then I'm fine with it.

Yes, we know how you don't care about what the Korean instructors who have paved the way for many of us, including yourself, think about individuals

Do you know what his retention rate is? Have you seen him teach or been to his school? Or is this an assumption on your part?

No, I do not know his retention rate, which is why I said he can speak directly on this manner. No to seeing him teach or been to his school, however, I have had the opportunity to watch his students at a tournament. They did quite well. I have met him person and have discussed many items about martial arts. I know of local ITF GM's who do speak highly of him. So, from all of that I can either think he is a blind squirrel that just happen to find some nuts or that he is good at what he does since he has been doing it for some time now. I chose the latter.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Out of interest, why would a yes/no not suffice? Regardless of the validity of the claims on the other board (which if you want to argue back, feel free to take that to bullshido to argue your case), the simple yes/no question is - is your real name "David Schultz"?

The point is, what does my name have to do with the thread? Nothing. If Earl was interested, a simple pm or email would have suffice. There is no validity to the thread on the other board, and I'm not even a member there. So there is little point to arguing the points of a thread that I was never a part of that died out six years ago. Particularly one authored by a banned troll that never met me. Why a couple of people feel the need to bring it up years later in threads that are about completely different subjects is the real question. It is unprofessional and rude. However, I've gone to great lengths to provide a venue, off of this board, in which anyone can directly chit-chat with me about whatever. It is into its second page as a matter of fact and anyone genuinely interested can contact me via pm or email in regards to it. Otherwise, I suggest whatever agenda some folks have stay off of this board where the mods have clearly indicated they don't want it.

 

[Tez3]

Out of interest, why would a yes/no not suffice? Regardless of the validity of the claims on the other board (which if you want to argue back, feel free to take that to bullshido to argue your case), the simple yes/no question is - is your real name "David Schultz"?

It's not a massive question and if you are "the real deal" as it were (rather than what was being said on bullshido) then it shouldn't be a problem giving people your real name.

My profile is in my real name - Andy Jeffries. My Kukkiwon number is 5059035, I'm a 5th Dan and I live in Stevenage, Herts (training at Stevenage Taekwondo under Master Carl Lees).

See, what's the difficulty with clearly stating "this is who I am"?

This isn't attacking you, it's just asking "rather than post in the name of an art, who are you as a person?".

I think he was saying he couln't answer yes or no, because yes he was the person mentioned but no it was false reporting. I don't think it was yes or no to what his name is.

 

[andyjeffries]

I think he was saying he couln't answer yes or no, because yes he was the person mentioned but no it was false reporting. I don't think it was yes or no to what his name is.

I'd like to think you're right mate, but even in KSD's recent answer he still doesn't say "yes, I am David Schultz, but that Bullshido thread is a load of rubbish". His evasive answer is "what does my name have to do with the thread?".

I don't mind people posting under an alias. My only issue is when people hide behind it. It then seems a little internet creepy and it changes from "that FooBar123 is a nice guy, I wonder who he is" to "whoah, what the hell is he trying to hide, is he a scammer?".

Just my opinion, but if one isn't willing to stand up and say "this is me" then it calls in to question the rest of one's opinions (using one rather than you, because this isn't aimed at you Irene).

 

[Kong Soo Do]

As for only discussing first dans, do you think that first dans are not capable of such things? You said yourself there are many students who train in several arts then once they reach 1st dan they set off to other schools. They would be more prime to do such a thing then say 3rd or 4th dans who have actually put more time in to one art.

No, I don't think they'd be more 'primed' to fake their way to the top. I think their motivation would be to have a well-rounded training experience. Nothing wrong with taking TKD and then switching to Judo as an example. Unless the TKD in question offers grappling. Most don't.

If you're going to drop a broad sweeping statement like;

Yes, many of them do that which is why we start to see sub-par martial arts being taught by instructors who feel that because they have trained a few years in one system then take a few seminars, greet a few like minded individuals who have already faked their names to the top, that they can be instant Grand masters.

Don't follow it up with;

Yes, I do know of a few. No I will not name names here or in PM. My evidence is research that I did which involved not only the KKW, but also involved contacting other instructors both CONUS and other countries who he/she conned. Yes, I have met said person, seen their class and very familiar with what they were claiming to teach. They have faked their ranks, how they obtained ranks, distributed ranks which they had not authority to distribute.

Either be prepared to back up what you say with something factual, or don't state it.

By making a statement that he should you should rely upon his abilities as an instructor rather than forcing a student into an arbitrary standard is just another way of calling into questions his qualifications.

Negative, don't make the assumption. I did not call into question Earl's qualifications. I asked a question about his policy of withholding a person's certification. And it is in line with the flow of this thread.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

I think he was saying he couln't answer yes or no, because yes he was the person mentioned but no it was false reporting. I don't think it was yes or no to what his name is.

Thank you, that's right on the money.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

I'd like to think you're right mate, but even in KSD's recent answer he still doesn't say "yes, I am David Schultz, but that Bullshido thread is a load of rubbish". His evasive answer is "what does my name have to do with the thread?".

I don't mind people posting under an alias. My only issue is when people hide behind it. It then seems a little internet creepy and it changes from "that FooBar123 is a nice guy, I wonder who he is" to "whoah, what the hell is he trying to hide, is he a scammer?".

Just my opinion, but if one isn't willing to stand up and say "this is me" then it calls in to question the rest of one's opinions (using one rather than you, because this isn't aimed at you Irene).

No deception, yes that is my name. And yes, the thread is rubbish. Nothing has been hidden or avoided, my sig line points directly to my school and my name and my credentials.

 

[Tez3]

I'd like to think you're right mate, but even in KSD's recent answer he still doesn't say "yes, I am David Schultz, but that Bullshido thread is a load of rubbish". His evasive answer is "what does my name have to do with the thread?".

I don't mind people posting under an alias. My only issue is when people hide behind it. It then seems a little internet creepy and it changes from "that FooBar123 is a nice guy, I wonder who he is" to "whoah, what the hell is he trying to hide, is he a scammer?".

Just my opinion, but if one isn't willing to stand up and say "this is me" then it calls in to question the rest of one's opinions (using one rather than you, because this isn't aimed at you Irene).

It was an odd post well off topic that has caused this confusion, KSD has his details on his posts so it wasn't really necessary to question who he was or suggest that he's not who he says he is. It's not usual to ask what the real names of people are on a thread, many keep their identity off here for various reasons as it's a very public place but will give details in a pm.
You are fairly unusual as you give your real name and clubs on your posts, most don't.

 

[andyjeffries]

No deception, yes that is my name. And yes, the thread is rubbish. Nothing has been hidden or avoided, my sig line points directly to my school and my name and my credentials.

I understand it points to your school, but not who you are (as there are multiple instructors on that site).

Thank you for stating your name. I'm much happier knowing that I'm dealing with people who are straight-up enough to say "this is me".

 

[andyjeffries]

It was an odd post well off topic that has caused this confusion, KSD has his details on his posts so it wasn't really necessary to question who he was or suggest that he's not who he says he is. It's not usual to ask what the real names of people are on a thread, many keep their identity off here for various reasons as it's a very public place but will give details in a pm.

OK

You are fairly unusual as you give your real name and clubs on your posts, most don't.

I agree with that. I'm a very open person - it really isn't hard to get my home address and my mobile phone number from Google. Most however (at least the ones I'm likely to converse with on an ongoing basis) are happy when asked to say who they are.

Over the past year I've done a bit of BJJ and in BJJ people are very much a "who's in your lineage". If you can't answer that honestly and easily, then what are you hiding. I'm the same in Taekwondo, if you can't answer "who are you" then why not... If you're happy to post your opinions online, you should be confident enough to post your identity (using you as I couldn't be bothered to type "one" again).

I could understand it if it was a domestic violence victim support forum, but this is just martial arts...

 

[Tez3]

I understand it points to your school, but not who you are (as there are multiple instructors on that site).

Thank you for stating your name. I'm much happier knowing that I'm dealing with people who are straight-up enough to say "this is me".

It's not common though to have real names used and I'm not actually too happy with mine being used here ( not a dig at you!), I prefer Tez, a unisex and fairly anonymous name, many feel like me, this is a open site and privacy is at the fore of most peoples minds. This is why most of us have user names not our own. I'm sure if you had PM'd KSD expressing your concerned he would have put your mind at rest without having to give personal details on an open international forum. Some like yourself are happy to have their details out in the open, that's fine but it shouldn't be thought that the rest of us are hiding anything or trying to be fraudulent because we have usernames.

 

[Tez3]

OK



I agree with that. I'm a very open person - it really isn't hard to get my home address and my mobile phone number from Google. Most however (at least the ones I'm likely to converse with on an ongoing basis) are happy when asked to say who they are.

Over the past year I've done a bit of BJJ and in BJJ people are very much a "who's in your lineage". If you can't answer that honestly and easily, then what are you hiding. I'm the same in Taekwondo, if you can't answer "who are you" then why not... If you're happy to post your opinions online, you should be confident enough to post your identity (using you as I couldn't be bothered to type "one" again).

I could understand it if it was a domestic violence victim support forum, but this is just martial arts...

Can't say I've come across that, usually BJJ places are very relaxed. where have you been training perhaps it's a Southern thing rofl!

 

[Grenadier]

Kong Soo Do....

Is your real name David Schultz?

The same David Schultz who was the subject of much discussion on the Bullshido website?

Ladies and Gentlemen,

If you want discuss such things, then it's usually best to take it to PM. If there's a legitimate concern about such things and you want to discuss it in public, then take it to The Great Debate.

-Ronald Shin
-MT Supermoderator

 

[Earl Weiss]

First and foremost. Thank you for answering a direct question.

In response to your question about quality of instruction and retention. My Instructor had one of his first groups of BBs all leave within a year. He then started this system. Seemed to work and I kept it when I took over. Students know the deal from day one and the investment required in time and money. They are expected to hold up their end of the bargain as do I. It's worked for 23 years that I have been running things. About a dozen first Dans never got their certificates. 2 bothered to ask, and one of those 2 later completed the probationary period and still trains a decade later.

You (and perhaps others mya fee l "Certificate fee" and tedt fee is semantics, but by that logic if I needed to fail anyone for any rank or give them an incomplete they would be entitled to a certificate because they paid the fee.

In the spirit of full disclosure I have met Jeremy in person twice and Glenn once, mosty recently when they invited me to the Hamadang (sorry for any misspelling) in my area (went to see how the other side lives since I am not WTF) and we did happen to go out to eat with a group afterword. I do not know if that makes us buddies.

Before I question people about their identities I check their profile and do a web search. I feel knowledge, experience and credentials are important to know when weighing opinions. So, far most information about posters has been readily available thru searches. I went to the website link following your posts and it lists several people. Was not sure which if any were you.

If you knew a little bit aabout me or my program you would be embarrassed about having made your statement as to the 1 year probation being a money maker for me.

Your welcome to your opinion about "Being professional" . We will agree to disagree. IMO transparency and disclosure is professional. No need to ask someones identity in a public forum in a private manner. You could have simply refused to disclose it as did another previous poster. That would have been your right.

Ah, okay I'll rephrase; Rather than forcing (your wording) a student into an arbitrary standard which "forces them to see there is something beyond the first dan test" and thereby getting you an extra years worth of income, why not rely solely upon your teaching ability to inspire the student to continue? Loyalty and retention rate shouldn't be requred or enforced for additional income should it? Shouldn't it be willingly given by your student on their own? Despite the fact that you have full disclosure up front doesn't negate that this is really just a money maker for you. Statements such as "their paying for a test and not a cert" is semantics.

In regards to your off-topic post, a simple yes/no wouldn't suffice and neither does your justification for said off-topic post. I don't see you questioning any one else in the thread for a representation of their accuracy. Are you buddies with Jeremy and Glenn by chance? And since you declined to pm or email me, at my invitation, it doesn't seem that you were actually all that interested to begin with. Were you? Drive-by comments aren't very professional. My invitation to discuss that matter via pm or email still stands, and IS the professional way to go about it.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

First and foremost. Thank you for answering a direct question.

Your welcome.

In response to your question about quality of instruction and retention. My Instructor had one of his first groups of BBs all leave within a year. He then started this system. Seemed to work and I kept it when I took over. Students know the deal from day one and the investment required in time and money. They are expected to hold up their end of the bargain as do I. It's worked for 23 years that I have been running things. About a dozen first Dans never got their certificates. 2 bothered to ask, and one of those 2 later completed the probationary period and still trains a decade later.

That's fine, I'll accept this at your word.

In the spirit of full disclosure I have met Jeremy in person twice and Glenn once, mosty recently when they invited me to the Hamadang (sorry for any misspelling) in my area (went to see how the other side lives since I am not WTF) and we did happen to go out to eat with a group afterword. I do not know if that makes us buddies.

The reason I asked is that Jeremy asked the same question almost word for word in a different thread. He and Glenn are buddies and he's felt the need to come to his defense often when Glenn tries to sniff around for something to 'get me on'. I invited them both to a full discussion on everything to do with me and address any concerns that THEY brought up. Jeremy, to his credit joined in the discussion. Glenn has yet to do so even though he was the first one to 'go fishing'. My assumption was that you were jumping on the bandwagon. If it isn't the case, then you have my apology.

 

[andyjeffries]

Can't say I've come across that, usually BJJ places are very relaxed. where have you been training perhaps it's a Southern thing rofl!

No, absolutely, they are very relaxed. What I mean is that in TMA the question is often about what body certified you, BJJ is more in to the who than the what body.

 

[Tez3]

Anyway, back to the original subject.....

Do you guys want to take up MMA instead and not worry about belts, grading etc. Andy I can get you a fight.....only joking!

 

[andyjeffries]

Anyway, back to the original subject.....

Do you guys want to take up MMA instead and not worry about belts, grading etc. Andy I can get you a fight.....only joking!

LOL!! I'm a big fan of MMA*, but don't personally fancy getting busted up week after week

* Bordering on the nerdy/obsessive

 

[Tez3]

LOL!! I'm a big fan of MMA*, but don't personally fancy getting busted up week after week

* Bordering on the nerdy/obsessive

You may be surprised but in training we are very careful not to injure anyone, doesn't mean we don't train hard just we spend our time training and not doing politics with organisations...we have no organisations for MMA in the UK! Much better!