Why do some karateka sensei wear hakima?

[Tony Dismukes]

The kwans were subsequent to the end of a 35ish year annexation. 1910 to 1945. Three and a half decades.

Every public dojang of KMA was shuttered, and a snitch network was established. Dojangs that weren't burned down were turned into JMA dojos.

Much of this from first hand KMA artists who were there and tild me directly and from individuals whoses parents were 1st hand witnesses who carried the events forward.

I have a korean newpaper article, (somwehere around my office) on one korean dojoang where the records of the school were kept intact through both transitions and name the Japanese sensei who ran the school during the 35 year period.

The fact that dojangs were occupied and converted is common knowledge within many KMAs and can easily be verified.

Interesting. If you can find that newspaper article, I'd love to read the details.

Have you confirmed that the dojos in question were teaching Karate and not some other JMA such as Judo or Kendo? After all, Karate didn't come to Japan until the 1920s, so I wouldn't expect that Japanse instructors would be teaching Karate in Korea prior to that. Is it also confirmed that these instructors were teaching Koreans and not just other Japanese?

If this is correct, it raises questions. I believe there is solid documentation that the founders of the kwans originally trained outside Korea (in Japan mostly). If Koreans were learning karate from Japanese instructors in Korea for 35 years before the founding of the Kwons, then what became of all those students? Did they join the kwans? Did those lineages die out?

Any KMA experts want to chime in?

 

[TSDTexan]

Interesting. If you can find that newspaper article, I'd love to read the details.

Have you confirmed that the dojos in question were teaching Karate and not some other JMA such as Judo or Kendo? After all, Karate didn't come to Japan until the 1920s, so I wouldn't expect that Japanse instructors would be teaching Karate in Korea prior to that. Is it also confirmed that these instructors were teaching Koreans and not just other Japanese?

If this is correct, it raises questions. I believe there is solid documentation that the founders of the kwans originally trained outside Korea (in Japan mostly). If Koreans were learning karate from Japanese instructors in Korea for 35 years before the founding of the Kwons, then what became of all those students? Did they join the kwans? Did those lineages die out?

Any KMA experts want to chime in?

The schools were primarily for the Japanese who went to colonialize but really gifted students were swiped from prior kma schools. Under annexation laws everyone took on a Japanese name.

All schools taught Japanese language and korean language was banned under penalty of law.

It is clear Koreans were taught yudo and gumdo during annexation by the Japanese. Koreans didnt have either.
It is clear that Japanese teachers had no problem accepting Korean students in those arts.

By and large moreans were to become second class Japanese citizens under the plan of annexation.

There are a number of yusul (korean word for jujutsu) that were transplanted in Korea during annexation.

The fight of the kwans and the resulting korea-washing after the fact and a search for self identity (read editing history) greatly damaged historical links with regard to karate in Korea during annexation.
Karate Schools did exist in Seoul. They were in the Japanese educational system.

Karate masters did leave Okinawa and Japan and vistited many other countries such as China and Korea. They only went to countries that had already established dojos usually by their own students.

Hwang Kee (my kwan founder) even stated that he took instruction in (karate) in grade school.

Hwang Kee was born on November 9, 1914 in Jang Dan, Kyong Ki province of Korea, while it was under Japanese occupation.

His father was a scholar and teacher, thus Kee was one of the few young men in the province to complete high school in 1935. He first studied martial arts, Soo Bahk and Tae Kyon while in school.

But we know that all korean martial arts are supressed. And the public school system is only teaching JMAs...

So what do we do... we call Shotokan Karate something else.
"Soo Bahk". We have an anachronism here. Soobahk wouldnt come into existence until 1959/60.

Itousu had created the public school katas and they were already well under way in Japan in the 20s. These same (Heinan) Forms were being taught to Japanese kids in Korea's public schools.

Hwang Kee's dad taught the chinese classics and math as well as a few other disciplenes. Most koreans only got a 4 year education. Japanese kids in korea got a 6 year education. Hwang Kee got 8 years of middle high and high school.

 

[TSDTexan]

The schools were primarily for the Japanese who went to colonialize but really gifted students were swiped from prior kma schools. Under annexation laws everyone took on a Japanese name.

All schools taught Japanese language and korean language was banned under penalty of law.

It is clear Koreans were taught yudo and gumdo during annexation by the Japanese. Koreans didnt have either.
It is clear that Japanese teachers had no problem accepting Korean students in those arts.

By and large moreans were to become second class Japanese citizens under the plan of annexation.

There are a number of yusul (korean word for jujutsu) that were transplanted in Korea during annexation.

The fight of the kwans and the resulting korea-washing after the fact and a search for self identity (read editing history) greatly damaged historical links with regard to karate in Korea during annexation.
Karate Schools did exist in Seoul. They were in the Japanese educational system.

Karate masters did leave Okinawa and Japan and vistited many other countries such as China and Korea. They only went to countries that had already established dojos usually by their own students.

Hwang Kee (my kwan founder) even stated that he took instruction in (karate) in grade school.

Hwang Kee was born on November 9, 1914 in Jang Dan, Kyong Ki province of Korea, while it was under Japanese occupation.

His father was a scholar and teacher, thus Kee was one of the few young men in the province to complete high school in 1935. He first studied martial arts, Soo Bahk and Tae Kyon while in school.

But we know that all korean martial arts are supressed. And the public school system is only teaching JMAs...

So what do we do... we call Shotokan Karate something else.
"Soo Bahk". We have an anachronism here. Soobahk wouldnt come into existence until 1959/60.

Itousu had created the public school katas and they were already well under way in Japan in the 20s. These same (Heinan) Forms were being taught to Japanese kids in Korea's public schools.

Hwang Kee's dad taught the chinese classics and math as well as a few other disciplenes. Most koreans only got a 4 year education. Japanese kids in korea got a 6 year education. Hwang Kee got 8 years of middle high and high school.




View attachment 19551

The desire to hide the Japanese roots of tsd and tkd is a genuine deal for the kwan founders. Ultranationalism is at a peak. Soo bahk do is "ancient korean art" look... I found it in a book and figured out how to make it work.

This how Joon Rhee goes from Teaching Karate in Texas to teaching TaeKwonDo overnight.

 

[TSDTexan]

Bringing Taekwondo to America

"In 1960, I was sent to the United States for a weapons course. The focus was on missiles like the Nike and the Hawk. As a result, we spent more time having field trips than classroom studies.

After the course ended in April, I went to see my friend Jhoon Rhee, who was teaching Taekwondo in San Antonio, Texas. In that era, it was difficult to reach such a remote place by plane.

I had many questions before I saw him. The big question was whether or not he was calling his art “Taekwondo”. As soon as I got off the plane, I asked him.

Rhee confessed that he was calling it “karate” because his students better knew the term. Realizing that he had learned the full techniques of Taekwondo before leaving Korea, I did not scold him.

That evening, forty students gathered to meet me in the practice hall of the local university. I took off my jacket and demonstrated the technical differences between karate and Taekwondo for about an hour.

At the end of the demonstration, the students asked me to inscribe the name of “Taekwondo” on their uniforms. I had to use permanent marker. I considered this day the first day that Taekwondo was brought to America. This is also why I consider Jhoon Rhee the first Taekwondo instructor in America. "
-General Choi Hong-Hi

JR changed the calling it of Korean Karate & Tang Soo Do and he did this at the urging of Choi, who wanted to make Taekwondo to establish its own Korean identity, something it couldn't do with Japanese forms.

Jhoon Rhee states that he learned the "Chang Hon" forms from the South Korean Army Field Manual sent to him by Choi Hong Hi. The "Chang Hon" set of forms are still taught by independent American Taekwondo instructors who came from the Jhoon Rhee lineage.

Jhoon Rhee was teaching Karate. And calling it Karate.
Learns new forms from the ROK Army Manual sent to him by a General, who ASAPs him the book with said forms.

Said General shows up after JR has had time to review said forms, to inspect JRs performance of said forms and add missing specifics. (Please refer to the quote at the beginning)

Tells karate students oh no... you don't do karate you do ancient 1600 year old Tae Kwon Do... here let me show you difference.
Wowed by a Korean General they believe him.
after all the General was a Second Dan in karate and trained under Kim Hyun Soo (KOREAN) and G. FUNAKOSHI.

1956 - Grand Master Jhoon Rhee, "Father of American Tae Kwon Do", introduces "Korean Karate" to the U.S. when he attends Southwest Texas State College.

Teaches Korean Karate up until 1960... bam... overnight Becomes a TKD guy.

1960 - Grand Master Jhoon Rhee moves to Washington D.C. and establishes the Jhoon Rhee Institute. (JRI)

1961 - Grand Master Allen Steen is promoted to Black Belt by Grand Master Jhoon Rhee and opens the first professional karate school in Dallas, Texas.

1963 - Grand Master J. Pat Burleson, who received a Brown Belt while stationed in Okinawa, is promoted to Black Belt in Tae Kwon Do by Grand Master Jhoon Rhee and opens his first school in Ft. Worth, Texas.

Hmmmm steals a karate brown belt and insta promotion to black belt. What about all the training in TKD?

1964 - Grand Master J. Pat Burleson becomes the first National Karate Champion by winning the National Karate Championships held in Washington D.C..

GrandMaster Rhee’s first American black belt was a Texan named Allen R. Steen who built the Lone Star state into one of the first strongholds of Karate in the U.S.A.

Steen opened the first "American" Karate school in Texas in 1962 in Dallas. Mr. Steen’s reputation as a champion and instructor of champions in the 1960’s and 70’s was rivaled only by California’s Chuck Norris (whom Steen defeated to earn the 1966 International Karate Championships).

So who taught Jhoon Rhee? Jhoon Rhee starts training in 1945... the year annexation ended...
So his teacher... was Nam Tae Hi (who began training in the martial arts in 1946, training after school for five nights each week.)

Wait... official story say teacher Nam is beginning as a student of Lee. (The Won Kuk Lee), A year after taking Jhoon Rhee as a student.

Hmm. The missing information (blacked out) is that NAM TAE HI was already a black belt of annex era Japanese Karate in country, who is white washing his back story by claiming his training to be after his teacher of recordWon Kuk Lee returned from Japan.

JR: I started training karate ahem tkd in 1945. My teacher started his training in karate Ahem TKD a year AFTER me in 1946. My teacher learned from a guy who studied Karate in Japan.
In about a decade I will promote an okinawa karate brown belt to blackbelt. In TKD.


The problem with conspiracy is that if your teacher's story and your own don't line up... the truth will out.

And in the 1960s San Antonio had a huge international airport and like 4 air force bases with incredibly long runways.
Many Airlines have hubs there and Boot Camp for the USAF is there. (Interesting fact, the first time I got to fire an M-60 was at a USAF Range in San Antonio.)



So the General Choi Hong-Hi is a bs artiste.

 

[TSDTexan]

Interesting. If you can find that newspaper article, I'd love to read the details.

Have you confirmed that the dojos in question were teaching Karate and not some other JMA such as Judo or Kendo? After all, Karate didn't come to Japan until the 1920s, so I wouldn't expect that Japanse instructors would be teaching Karate in Korea prior to that. Is it also confirmed that these instructors were teaching Koreans and not just other Japanese?

If this is correct, it raises questions. I believe there is solid documentation that the founders of the kwans originally trained outside Korea (in Japan mostly). If Koreans were learning karate from Japanese instructors in Korea for 35 years before the founding of the Kwons, then what became of all those students? Did they join the kwans? Did those lineages die out?

Any KMA experts want to chime in?

Karate (hongsoodo) was absorbed into the blackhole of TKD by Government Law. Almost all the Kwans and schools were.

Hwang Kee fought to remain separate because he couldn't have a seat on the testing and grading head commitee.
His kwan left unification. He was jailed but powerful friends set him loose. One other Kwan renained outside as well, following Hwangs lead. 5 kwans became 9 then 30 then 1 Kukkiwan.

Karate ceased being taught in the public schools in the mid 40s.

 

[TSDTexan]

Interesting. If you can find that newspaper article, I'd love to read the details.

Have you confirmed that the dojos in question were teaching Karate and not some other JMA such as Judo or Kendo? After all, Karate didn't come to Japan until the 1920s, so I wouldn't expect that Japanse instructors would be teaching Karate in Korea prior to that. Is it also confirmed that these instructors were teaching Koreans and not just other Japanese?

If this is correct, it raises questions. I believe there is solid documentation that the founders of the kwans originally trained outside Korea (in Japan mostly). If Koreans were learning karate from Japanese instructors in Korea for 35 years before the founding of the Kwons, then what became of all those students? Did they join the kwans? Did those lineages die out?

Any KMA experts want to chime in?

An articcle worth reading:
"People and Events in Taekwondos Formative Years"

Journal of Asian Martial Arts, Vol. 6 No. 1 (1997):

By Dakin Burdick, Ph.D.

People and Events in Taekwondos Formative Years


With solid reference materials, the author clearly presents how martial art systems developed in Korea, largely through Chinese and Japanese influences.

According to tae kwon do scholar and black belt Dakin Burdick, Japan began a long and difficult occupation of Korea in 1905, which included banning the practice of martial arts, beginning in 1909. This ban was partly lifted as the Japanese began preparing to enter World War II, introducing several forms to the occupied Koreans, including judo, karate and kung fu.

 

[TSDTexan]

Interesting. If you can find that newspaper article, I'd love to read the details.

Have you confirmed that the dojos in question were teaching Karate and not some other JMA such as Judo or Kendo? After all, Karate didn't come to Japan until the 1920s, so I wouldn't expect that Japanse instructors would be teaching Karate in Korea prior to that. Is it also confirmed that these instructors were teaching Koreans and not just other Japanese?

If this is correct, it raises questions. I believe there is solid documentation that the founders of the kwans originally trained outside Korea (in Japan mostly). If Koreans were learning karate from Japanese instructors in Korea for 35 years before the founding of the Kwons, then what became of all those students? Did they join the kwans? Did those lineages die out?

Any KMA experts want to chime in?

Just got off a two hour call to Seoul.

Won Kuk Lee had a early shotokan karate school in operation in korea during the occupation. Before the annexation ended.

Won Kuk Lee the founder of Chung Do Kwan has Hwang Kee listed in his records as a 5th kyu, aboutbelt level. He states Hwang came to him to learn the correct movements of Karate.

During the annexation.