As found in an article on A "jiu jutsu" website.
It supports your formal attire position.
There are some who say that the keigogi or judogi were much like long john under garments. It makes sense in that respect. Layering is a natural response to cold climate in the fall winter and spring.
Hakama are the skirt-like pleated pants worn by higher ranking belts (usually instructors) in more traditional Japanese martial arts schools. They are worn by black belts and sometimes brown belts in Aikido and in some more traditional Jiu-jitsu schools. This seemingly innocuous piece of clothing is an identifiable topic in the ongoing debate of tradition vs. practicality.
The hakama were originally worn by the Samurai. The baggy, flowing material served to protect their legs while riding, but it is also generally accepted that they had the side benefit of disguising their stance and footwork from their opponents.
The hakama also have symbolic importance, though I imagine that the significance of the pleats was added after the fact and not when the garment was originally conceived. The five front pleats are said to represent Confucian virtues valued by the Samurai:
Jin – Love and Sympathy
Gi – Truth and Justice
Rei – Courtesy
Chi – Wisdom
Shin – Faith
Nowadays, the dojos that still use hakama generally introduced when a student earns their black belt and/or becomes an instructor. And while I can appreciate their symbolism, I find that hakama interfere with instruction, for the some of the same reasons the Samurai wore them.
The pants hide the instructor’s hip and leg movements often making it difficult for students to see the subtleties of their technique. Instructors often have to pull their hakama back so students can see.
In my dojo, instructors wear black pants to represent the hakama. I feel this is sufficient in that it pays homage to the symbolic representation without impeding my teaching. That being said, my old Karate sensei would wear his hakama for belt gradings and important formal events. I wouldn’t mind introducing the hakama in this capacity. They really convey an air of authority, highlighting the importance of the event.
The Hakama Debate: Tradition vs. Practicality | Pacific Wave Jiu-jitsu
I always take any article on a site from a modern, Western "jiu-jitsu" group who can't name the Japanese traditions they claim to be descendant from with regards to anything historical with a huge slab of salt… and this is no different. There are a few issues with the article, namely the claim that "Hakama are… worn by high ranking belts (usually instructors) in more traditional Japanese martial art schools"… uh, no. In most classical schools that wear them, rank is nothing to do with it at all. You either wear them as part of the standard uniform (weaponry schools, typically), or wear them for embu (many jujutsu systems, some weaponry arts)… all of which is regardless of rank. There are also issues with the "reasons the Samurai wore them" stated. As a result, what they do in their Western system is really no bearing on anything to do with Japanese (or Okinawan) arts at all.
That said, I will caution against copying entire articles from websites, as you're risking running afoul of the "fair use" clause of the TOS here.
What do you mean by that?
Others have already stated, but simply, Kano created the idea of Kyu and Dan ranking, which he took from the game of Go. All arts that use this ranking trace their usage to Judo, and Kano's implication of it.
This is something that you should read.
Its very on topic.
The Judo Rank System - Belts
On topic for the off-topic question of the origin of Dan ranking, but… not so much for the thread. Especially when the question had been answered a few times already. That said, it's a better article from a better source.
After that...
View attachment 19540 Here is Dr.Kano in Hakama and Haori.
Kano based his Dan and Kyu in Japanese from the game of Go.
Go, known in Chinese as Weiqi and in Korean as Baduk, is an ancient board game for two players that is noted for being rich in strategy despite its simple rules.
In Go, rank indicates a player's skill in the game. Traditionally, ranks are measured using Gup or Kyu and Dan grades, a system which also has been adopted by many martial arts due to Kano.
Go Ranks
Rank Type Range Stage
Double-digit kyu 30-20k Beginner
Double-digit kyu 19-10k Casual Player
Single-digit kyu 9-1k Intermediate/Club Player
Amateur dan 1-7d (where 8d is special title) Expert Player
Professional dan 1-9p (where 10p is special title) Professionals
Note the Dan Ranks range from 1-9 with 10th being a special title similar to most martial arts ranking systems.
Kano's original use of the Kyu/Dan was eventually used by Funokoshi (Shotokan's founder) and made its way to Korea via the Koreans that trained in Shotokan and Judo (Yudo in Korean).
In KMAs
The Gup system was simply a reversal of the Kyu ranking. Starting at 10th Gup you progressed by counting down as you reach Dan you climbed back up the numbers.
* Kano's system was 1st to 4th Dan as testable ranks (or even instant promotion due to specific tournament rules) but with 5th or above being honorary Dans only.
The following ranks could not be earned. The could only be recognized or bestowed. Futhermore Kano said ranks higher then 10th exist.
However the Kodakan has only recognized 15 individuals as being 10th Dan in its history.
5th degree godan
6th degree rokudan
7th degree shichidan
8th degree hachidan
9th degree kudan
10th degree judan
So… you linked the article… but still needed to put all this down? I get that you want to be seen as knowledgable, but this is unnecessary… and I'm not sure what the references to Korean arts has to do with anything…
Originally, Menkyo (Korean this would be Meon Ho) a form of certificate(s) was used before the use of belts came into play.
It distinguished one's place in a school or art long before anyone ever thought about the use of belt ranking.
Typically classical schools (koryū) usually use the menkyo system while schools which base their practice on budō forms ("path, or way") typically use the Kyu/Dan.
This is not always the case but it usually is.
Schools in Japan usually were classified either as koryū or Gendai budō, meaning "modern martial way", which are modern martial arts that were established after the Meji Restoration (1866-1869).
Koryū are the opposite: ancient martial arts established before the Meiji Restoration (sword arts, archery and battle field arts for example).
Hmm… I don't want to take this much further off topic, but this is not really correct on a number of levels… for the record.
A sense of historical fashion.
Historical fashion that's not part of your (Korean arts) history?
Which is why I am researching why Okinaiwan and Japanese KarateKa wore the garment and why some still do.
Because it's the clothing of the culture… and because they choose to. It's really not much more complex than that.
The KMA of Gumdo wears it. Even the Korean National team.
Gumdo is a clear derivative of Kendo.
I invite you to go back to my first post here and read my comments on sword arts… and invite you to realise that what Kumdo does is absolutely nothing to do with what a karate school does.
Why should I teach second hand okinaiwan forms, and award Japanese inspired ranks derived from Japanese Karate and Judo and ignore the rest of a rich fullness of a legacy and heritage?
Because you teach a Korean art? Simply put, if you're wanting to be like the Japanese arts, do a Japanese art. Otherwise, it's like a non-English country wearing bowler hats when they play cricket… as they're very English… and there's therefore a cultural heritage… despite there being little connection.
All karate derived styles pretty much have dobok/gi & dee/obi in common. We dont use school patches or lettering on our doboks. I may choose formal attire for my students.
If you mean that you can choose what you want your students to wear in your school, you're absolutely right. Of course, you don't need any reason other than "I like this look".
View attachment 19541
View attachment 19542
Milos Stanic
4.dan promotes old okinawan empty hand and weapon traditions (
shorin ryu karate & matayoshi kobudo)
He led his Dojo in his countries national team in the ITKF.
He is very traditional. There is nothing eclectic in his arts.
He kind of upsets the "particularly in Japanese and Okinawan systems... no black gi pants" position that you are holding.
Yeah… I said it was fairly rare… and that you basically didn't see it at all. And you've found one (1) guy who wears black pants… but the rest of his school doesn't. So it's his personal choice, as head instructor of his school… which means nothing when you were discussing "all the karate systems that wear black pants with their gi". As a result, no, Milos doesn't "upset… the position".
Now there is a phrase found in Okinawa:
Like brother and sister, Karate and Kubodo always together.
I bring this up because shorin ryu karate & matayoshi kobudo are not eclectic or western or modern... and yet
I'm sorry, are you trying to educate me on such things here?
You will also see (below) a native okinaiwan wearing a black gi top and white gi pants while working with sai.
In 2002, Uechi-ryu published an article that he wrote about Kabudo weapons. This one about the Sai.
Sai: Okinawa Kobudo | Uechi-ryu Martial Arts
And, it can't be helped but noticed, other than a profile shot of Milos at the bottom, all shots from the article illustrating it (save the one you put in your post) show white pants with white tops… hmm…
Matayoshi Shinko... interesting fellow and important fellow. He was a karateka, a kobudoka and went to China to learn even more martial arts.
Was asked to perform Kabudo for Prince Hirohito.
Too bad he cant make his mind up about picking a color gi to wear. It totally messes with "uniformly uniform" image that we sometimes see and perhaps expect to see.
There is debate whether this is him or his son in the photo.
View attachment 19543
I'm pretty well aware of who Matayoshi Sensei was… your comments about "too bad… it totally messes…" are rather misplaced. In fact, dark tops with light pants are far more common (particularly in Okinawan Kobudo arts) than your black pants approach… and, it also must be noted, that it's not uncommon for head instructors to choose a slightly different uniform for themselves to the rest of the school… which brings it all back to personal choice as the reason for any particular uniform in the first place.
