Why do people think grappling arts always beat striking arts?

[Charlemagne]

And concerning the availability of grappling, if there was a bigger demand for grappling there would be more availability. Perhaps one of the reasons its less available than striking arts is that its demand isn't as high. If there were more people wanting to do grappling arts it makes sense more schools would open up that teach it.

That's exactly what people said in Southern California about 15 years ago. So Cal is pretty much the center of the Jiu-Jitsu universe these days. Since then, Gracie Barra has opened up about 35 schools in that same area, and every one of them is full. Grappling will peak at some point, but I don't think we are there yet.

 

[Charlemagne]

I don't agree that grappling is more difficult. Maybe when it comes to stamina for sure but striking brings on a whole new type of hassles. Try walking around with bruises and aches all the time on your body. A couple of people think I get in bar fights often.

I guess grappling is more exhausting while striking is more painful. Yesterday we had to get hit in the stomach several times while kiaing to practice body conditioning.

I have trained striking arts in the past, and agree on the bruises. This even happens in FMA, so I have to wear long sleeved shirts to work all the time since my arms are bruised up from knife tapping on a regular basis. I still believe that grappling is far harder.

 

[drop bear]

Or get knocked out which is bad.

At least you get to stop.

 

[PhotonGuy]

That's exactly what people said in Southern California about 15 years ago. So Cal is pretty much the center of the Jiu-Jitsu universe these days. Since then, Gracie Barra has opened up about 35 schools in that same area, and every one of them is full. Grappling will peak at some point, but I don't think we are there yet.

Well So Cal is home of some of the Gracies and I did once visit their academy in Torrance. Anyway Royce Gracie trains in Muai Thai and also has a black belt in some style of Karate, so that would go to show you that even a hardcore grappler sees the value of training in the striking arts.

 

[Ironbear24]

Well So Cal is home of some of the Gracies and I did once visit their academy in Torrance. Anyway Royce Gracie trains in Muai Thai and also has a black belt in some style of Karate, so that would go to show you that even a hardcore grappler sees the value of training in the striking arts.

I thought he ridiculed his relatives for taking other styles saying " all they need is jiu jitsu."? Maybe the source I read that from was false.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Here is an interview with Royce Gracie.
Royce Gracie interview!

 

[Kickboxer101]

Here is an interview with Royce Gracie.
Royce Gracie interview!

Got to love his advice train hard and don't take steroids when 2 years before this interview he tested positive for steroids.

 

[Sub Zero]

I might be a tad late to this shindig but to any who still believe grapplers always beats strikers then you may want to watch Anderson Silva's matches against Thales Leites and Demian Maia. Both were BJJ world champions and both got emberassed by The Spider. Ditto with Fedor's one sided beat down on Mark Coleman.

In all the aforementioned fights the grapplers tools were useless because they couldn't get the fight in their elements. All the BJJ in the world won't help you if you can't get the battle to the floor. It always boils down to the warrior not the weapon.

 

[Kickboxer101]

I might be a tad late to this shindig but to any who still believe grapplers always beats strikers then you may want to watch Anderson Silva's matches against Thales Leites and Demian Maia. Both were BJJ world champions and both got emberassed by The Spider. Ditto with Fedor's one sided beat down on Mark Coleman.

In all the aforementioned fights the grapplers tools were useless because they couldn't get the fight in their elements. All the BJJ in the world won't help you if you can't get the battle to the floor. It always boils down to the warrior not the weapon.

It's not always as and black and white as that Anderson silva is mainly a Thai boxer but he's also a bjj black belt under the noguiera brothers but the fact is grapplers don't always beat strikers and strikers won't always beat grapplers. In any fight anything can my best example Maia vs Marquadt. Marquadt caught him with a punch seconds in Maia was out cold In like 10 seconds so his grappling was useless then. If they fought again Maia might've got him down and submitted him no way of knowing

 

[Charlemagne]

I might be a tad late to this shindig but to any who still believe grapplers always beats strikers then you may want to watch Anderson Silva's matches against Thales Leites and Demian Maia. Both were BJJ world champions and both got emberassed by The Spider. Ditto with Fedor's one sided beat down on Mark Coleman.

In all the aforementioned fights the grapplers tools were useless because they couldn't get the fight in their elements. All the BJJ in the world won't help you if you can't get the battle to the floor. It always boils down to the warrior not the weapon.

All of which needs to be understood in the context of the many rule changes to favor strikers that have been implemented since the early days of the UFC. Today, we have refs standing fighters up, rounds with time limits that don't favor the slow methodical approach that is taught in BJJ, and gloves which protect the fighter's hands so they can strike in a way that they could not without.

 

[Sub Zero]

In all four of those matches the grapplers couldn't get the fight to the ground, despite their best efforts. Leites and Maia's takedown were no threat to Silva's TD defense. He was better at implementing his game plan better than both of them so he didn't even need to use his BJJ.

Colman tried to take Fedor down and The LAST Emperor pummeled him as soon as they clinched up. The rules being in favor of strikers weren't the issue in those fights it was the superior skill sets of Silva and Fedor.

 

[frank raud]

Well So Cal is home of some of the Gracies and I did once visit their academy in Torrance. Anyway Royce Gracie trains in Muai Thai and also has a black belt in some style of Karate, so that would go to show you that even a hardcore grappler sees the value of training in the striking arts.

So, someone who competes in the UFC trains in multiple arts? Shocking.

 

[Hanzou]

In all four of those matches the grapplers couldn't get the fight to the ground, despite their best efforts. Leites and Maia's takedown were no threat to Silva's TD defense. He was better at implementing his game plan better than both of them so he didn't even need to use his BJJ.

Check out Sonnen vs Silva 1 where Sonnen took Silva to the ground constantly and dominated him for 4 rounds. If not for Silva's Bjj background, he would have lost that fight.

 

[msmitht]

Because they practice with full resistance all of the time.
Many are saying that of that were true then where are all of the bjj schools then? It takes a long time to get good at and become a bjj instructor. There are more nowadays and are in high demand. Almost all are doing well and readily accept black belts of all ages and styles on the mat and hand them a white one. Have a friend in Scottsdale who opened a bjj school 1 year ago and has 260 students.
For the majority it is more effective

 

[Hanzou]

Because they practice with full resistance all of the time.
Many are saying that of that were true then where are all of the bjj schools then? It takes a long time to get good at and become a bjj instructor. There are more nowadays and are in high demand. Almost all are doing well and readily accept black belts of all ages and styles on the mat and hand them a white one. Have a friend in Scottsdale who opened a bjj school 1 year ago and has 260 students.
For the majority it is more effective

Can't argue with that. I've been offered instructional positions in various striking schools, and I'm only a purple belt.

 

[moonhill99]

In all four of those matches the grapplers couldn't get the fight to the ground, despite their best efforts. Leites and Maia's takedown were no threat to Silva's TD defense. He was better at implementing his game plan better than both of them so he didn't even need to use his BJJ.

Colman tried to take Fedor down and The LAST Emperor pummeled him as soon as they clinched up. The rules being in favor of strikers weren't the issue in those fights it was the superior skill sets of Silva and Fedor.

I don't think anyone here is saying grapplers will always beat skilled fighters. I mean look at Ronda Rousey her Judo is really good but she could not get Holly Holmes to the ground.

Well Miesha Tate got Holly Holmes to the ground couple of times but even with her she had to really work on it to get her to the ground.

Some really skilled strikers are just really hard to get to the ground.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Can't argue with that. I've been offered instructional positions in various striking schools, and I'm only a purple belt.

I know a guy who has a Gracie center as a purple belt. He started a "study group" shortly after he started studying GJJ. Where there is a need, even a well-trained blue belt in GJJ can bring a lot of value.

 

[wingchun100]

I think a lot of people don't train in the middle ground between punching and grappling. This is wing chun's sweet spot though.

I also think people train in a way where they feel they have to have a lot of wind up to their punches in order to generate any power. You need to learn how to get a powerful punch without relying on muscle. Look at Bruce Lee's one inch punch. Something like that would be a very useful tool to beat a grappler, even if they already had you in a clinch.

Then again, when you are in a clinch or on the ground, your body mechanics won't be what they should because you are not in an ideal position...AKA, standing up and rooted in the ground. However, there are ways to train around that too.

I also like one of the previous comments that a takedown is easier than a KO. Some people are tough as hell and can take quite a beating.

Last but not least, we seem to be leaning toward grappling arts being better IN COMPETITION. In a bar fight, you can't grapple when some alpha male and his five friends are coming at you.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

In a bar fight, you can't grapple when some alpha male and his five friends are coming at you.

Sure you can - well, as much as you can do anything in those circumstances. You'll need strikes, too (your original point, I think), but grappling works well for controlling one person, which can be used to increase your odds. Now, if you're talking about grappling that requires you go to the ground, I'd agree, but that's a smaller part of grappling as a whole.

 

[wingchun100]

Sure you can - well, as much as you can do anything in those circumstances. You'll need strikes, too (your original point, I think), but grappling works well for controlling one person, which can be used to increase your odds. Now, if you're talking about grappling that requires you go to the ground, I'd agree, but that's a smaller part of grappling as a whole.

You are right. I meant if it went to the ground. I mean, even in my training I have kind of sort of used grappling when sparring against multiple opponents. (I say "kind of sort of" because I don't want to sound like I am arrogantly proclaiming to be ANY kind of expert, or even a beginner, in grappling.) I don't mean I got them into submission holds, but I did get in close enough where I could use one person to block the others from getting close to me. Reminds me of "Operation Human Shield" from the SOUTH PARK movie.