Why do master hold you hostage over what you've earned

[Miles]

A newbie is using the search function But, I think the remark you're mentioning isn't so much racist as a limited perspective cultural observation. Not necessarily politically correct (what cultural generalization is?) but not as nasty as something that's flat out racist.

I believe you are right. I read some other posts by the poster and he comes across as a concerned martial artist. I don't know if it was politically correct or incorrect or just painting with a very broad brush.

 

[JadeDragon3]

Thanks for cleaning up a five year old post, it was made when I was angry and that is why it was so bad. If somebody new wants to visit a old thread so be it.

I mis-spell a lot of words when I go on a rant.......LOL. I get so frustrated and don't even look at what I'm typing.

 

[Laurentkd]

Ok, since this thread is here, how about another side to it.
Do you (or your instructor) issue Kukkiwon certificates for everyone that tests for black belt? Currently we do. But after over 10 years of teaching there are a ton of certificates sitting in a storage room of people who got their black belt, and then quit (which is often the case). I have tried to get ahold of these people to get their certificate, but rarely does anyone come. So basically, I have hundreds of dollars worth of paper back there that are doing no one any good. Now yes, maybe 10 years later little Johnny (no big Johnny) wants to go back to training. But is his 1st degree certificate from when he was 15 really worth anything if he returns to training at 25?
I know some schools (my first school did this actually) have a black belt test and then a 1st degree test. Basically if black belt was your whole goal you could test and receive it (and then quit) but if you planned on continuing to train, then 6 months or so later you tested for 1st Dan and received your Kukkiwon certificate. Is this a valid method (assuming it is not just to get extra test fees)? Does this help keep some credibility to a Kukkiwon certificate (no comment on how much credibility one holds now)?
Regardless I think the key is to be honest with what you are "selling". If someone is testing and they are told they are going to be receiving a Kukkiwon certificate, I need to mail in the paperwork.
But is everyone who tests for a Black Belt entitled to a Kukkiwon certificate?
I figure amongst all of us here there have to be different ways of doing it, and I am looking forward to hearing about some. (Since this old thread is already up on top )

 

[jks9199]

Why not simply mail the old certs to the last known address? Actually, right now, I'd suggest sending a postcard notice to the effect that "I have been holding your certificate; please contact me if you want it." Then, in the future, I'd mail them after a set period, and consider allowing people to opt in/out of getting the KKW cert at the time of testing.

 

[troubleenuf]

We did Kukkiwon certificates for years... same thing, I have some on my shelf in a file. What we do now is offer an association certificate but if you want to have a kukkiwon you just pay for the cost of that certificate and I apply for it. We have been doing that for the past two years. The last test was for 32 people.... only one wanted Kukkiwon. It has just lost its appeal as most people dont see the need or value in it anymore. I have to say that while I still like mine they have indeed lost the value they once had. By the way, the reason we changed was at the state championships two years ago I was the only one still issuing Kukkiwon certificates at all.... Surprised the hell out of me!

Ok, since this thread is here, how about another side to it.
Do you (or your instructor) issue Kukkiwon certificates for everyone that tests for black belt? Currently we do. But after over 10 years of teaching there are a ton of certificates sitting in a storage room of people who got their black belt, and then quit (which is often the case). I have tried to get ahold of these people to get their certificate, but rarely does anyone come. So basically, I have hundreds of dollars worth of paper back there that are doing no one any good. Now yes, maybe 10 years later little Johnny (no big Johnny) wants to go back to training. But is his 1st degree certificate from when he was 15 really worth anything if he returns to training at 25?
I know some schools (my first school did this actually) have a black belt test and then a 1st degree test. Basically if black belt was your whole goal you could test and receive it (and then quit) but if you planned on continuing to train, then 6 months or so later you tested for 1st Dan and received your Kukkiwon certificate. Is this a valid method (assuming it is not just to get extra test fees)? Does this help keep some credibility to a Kukkiwon certificate (no comment on how much credibility one holds now)?
Regardless I think the key is to be honest with what you are "selling". If someone is testing and they are told they are going to be receiving a Kukkiwon certificate, I need to mail in the paperwork.
But is everyone who tests for a Black Belt entitled to a Kukkiwon certificate?
I figure amongst all of us here there have to be different ways of doing it, and I am looking forward to hearing about some. (Since this old thread is already up on top )

 

[sadantkd]

Anybody can order a new copy of their Kukkiwon certificate for $10.00. You can search for your dan status on their site with just your name and date of birth. The real problem is when a master doesn't even register you after you pay the fee and pass the test.

 

[terryl965]

You know I will just add this, why do Master or Grand Master decide who gets there KKW or not, if you tested did everything they ask and they award a certificate to be a BB, then they should send off for your KKW certificate without anything and make sure you recieved it and not find out twenty later that they never did what they promise and gave you a fake one in place of it.

 

[Laurentkd]

I don't know if I agree with that.
I don't think an instructor is obligated to give anyone a Kukkiwon certifcate. If they say they are GOING to give them one, then yes of course. But I think it is up to the instructor what certifiacate they give (and further more what organization they chose to support, now matter how many they belong to).

 

[IcemanSK]

I don't know if I agree with that.
I don't think an instructor is obligated to give anyone a Kukkiwon certifcate. If they say they are GOING to give them one, then yes of course. But I think it is up to the instructor what certifiacate they give (and further more what organization they chose to support, now matter how many they belong to).

I agree Lauren that if they say you'll get a KKW cert. then, yes, they should order it for you. When I got mine at 17, I really didn't know what I had. I really think that most folks really don't know the difference between getting a KKW (or ITF, or any other org). The sad part is, THAT (ignorance) is where advantage is taken by the instructor. In the case of the KKW that is oversees, distance & red tape can be great excuses for not following through. With the availabilty of the info on the web (including KKW cert. confirmation) it is easier to validate one's cert. now. Hopefully the instructor's pocketing the money & not following through has diminished greatly.

 

[troubleenuf]

Unfortunately what has diminished is the "value" of the Kukkiwon certificate. 30 years ago it was a rarity to earn one. Like many things they are being sold by some and earned by others. Its unfortunate but its the truth... and just because you have one dosnt tell anyone anything anymore.

I agree Lauren that if they say you'll get a KKW cert. then, yes, they should order it for you. When I got mine at 17, I really didn't know what I had. I really think that most folks really don't know the difference between getting a KKW (or ITF, or any other org). The sad part is, THAT (ignorance) is where advantage is taken by the instructor. In the case of the KKW that is oversees, distance & red tape can be great excuses for not following through. With the availabilty of the info on the web (including KKW cert. confirmation) it is easier to validate one's cert. now. Hopefully the instructor's pocketing the money & not following through has diminished greatly.

 

[terryl965]

I don't know if I agree with that.
I don't think an instructor is obligated to give anyone a Kukkiwon certifcate. If they say they are GOING to give them one, then yes of course. But I think it is up to the instructor what certifiacate they give (and further more what organization they chose to support, now matter how many they belong to).

Right Lauren but when you was promised and paid for it then you should recieve it.

 

[Miles]

Ok, since this thread is here, how about another side to it.
Do you (or your instructor) issue Kukkiwon certificates for everyone that tests for black belt?

All of my students who pass their dan test receive Kukkiwon certificates, and recently, we have also begun issuing Chung Do Kwan certificates. It is kind of neat getting 2 separate certificates both signed by GM Uhm.

 

[terryl965]

All of my students who pass their dan test receive Kukkiwon certificates, and recently, we have also begun issuing Chung Do Kwan certificates. It is kind of neat getting 2 separate certificates both signed by GM Uhm.

That is great Miles, I did not know you was part of the Chung Do Kwan?