Orgs. what is the real passion

[puunui]

I am not saying the orgs are not positive they mostly are, the point is what are they giving back to the athletes and school owners since they are making money from everything?

USTC is not making money on everything.

As for giving back to the athletes and school owners, that was an issue during the USTU days. There were some that argued that we should give something of "value" to the membership in exchange for their $35. But the truth of the matter is that the people who signed up for USTU memberships did so because their instructor said to sign up, or because they were required to compete. So we it was a misdirected effort based on a false complaint when we spent all this effort to give people patches, pins, a magazine, etc., when most people didn't care about these things. Even now, USAT mails me stuff. I don't use the patch or the sticker, and the information in the magazine is old, especially when compared to the speed of the internet. If we had the USTU today, what I would suggest would be to give the USTU magazine in pdf format, like Totally Taekwondo or whatever the name of that pdf magazine is, and to do away with mailings of any kind. Membership cards can also be done in pdf format.

I would rather see the money spent on mailouts go to things such as paying for IR's airfare to WTF International Events, including all of the Olympic qualification events on the way to select our Olympic referees. We should also have a full team at every single WTF international event possible (except opens), trips that are completely funded by USAT. Our athletes shouldn't have to pay a dime to compete internationally. I also think team members should get stipends so they can concentrate on training. That sort of thing. We don't need to give everyone a patch and pin that they don't want or care about.

 

[puunui]

what I mean are members of USTC going to have a voice in the structure of the org.

Ok, a voice in the structure of the organization. I drafted the original bylaws of USTC. Or rather I did the first draft, which was based on the old USTU bylaws. That draft was then circulated amongst a lot of different people, who all had their say about this or that. We made numerous changes to it, based on the input and feedback we received by everyone who looked at it. At some point it was printed up and passed out to the 100 or 200 delegates to the inaugural meeting in Los Angeles back in 2008. The bylaws were discussed at length at that meeting, and additional changes were suggested and voted upon. We made the necessary changes and after that no further changes were made to the bylaws, mainly because no one has ever suggested any changes be made.

So to answer your question, yes the members of USTC did have a voice in the structure of the organization. A lot of members had a voice and input into the structure of the organization.

 

[sfs982000]

I am not saying the orgs are not positive they mostly are, the point is what are they giving back to the athletes and school owners since they are making money from everything?

I would think that as far as the ATA goes and again I'm not trying to come off as an expert on the matter, that what they give back to thier schools is the right to attach the name brand recognition to their school (if that makes any sense). The arguement can also be said for the standardized curiculum and rank regcognition as being something else that the organizations give to their atheltes and school owners. I know that the ATA gets a bad rap on the majority of the forums and maybe rightfully so is some cases, but I do like the idea that if I got transferred due to my job that if I found another decent ATA school I would be able to continue to work hard and progress and not have to start over from scratch.

 

[dancingalone]

I would think that as far as the ATA goes and again I'm not trying to come off as an expert on the matter, that what they give back to thier schools is the right to attach the name brand recognition to their school (if that makes any sense). The arguement can also be said for the standardized curiculum and rank regcognition as being something else that the organizations give to their atheltes and school owners. I know that the ATA gets a bad rap on the majority of the forums and maybe rightfully so is some cases, but I do like the idea that if I got transferred due to my job that if I found another decent ATA school I would be able to continue to work hard and progress and not have to start over from scratch.

ATA also offers a certain territory protection to school owners. In other words, if you're a licensed school, you won't see another ATA school open right down the street.

They have a slew of promotional materials, even canned commercials, that can be used if desired.

 

[terryl965]

Ok we kinda got into the USTC even though it was not suppose to be that way, we got into the ATA a little, but why is nobody making any comments toward the other orgs out there? Come on people this should be the time to really say what is on your mind.

 

[SahBumNimRush]

Well, I will mention an underdog. One that preceded the USTC, but had a somewhat similar mission in mind. The United States Taekwondo Won, was formed by Sok Ho KANG (my KJN), Kyong Won AHN (currently honorary president of the USTC), Moo Yong LEE, Il Ho KIM, Chan Hak PARK, and Myung Kun OH.

During the 1990’s many of the traditional Tae Kwon Do Masters in the United States were disgusted with state of Tae Kwon Do. The USTU had been stripped of its national governing status. It had also been crippled due to its scandals, abuses and self-dealings of its leadership. Many felt that TKD, at that time, was losing its identity as a traditional martial art and was embracing an identity as merely a sport. Many instructors were training only the body and, they were neglecting the mind and spirit. The original tenents of Tae Kwon Do of character, honor, respect, integrity, and self-defense were being sacrificed for the improvement of competition. With the USTU crippled, the identity and leadership of TKD in the United States was struggling to find its new direction.

The grandmasters mentioned above wished to form an organization that would both promote and preserve the traditional martial art of Tae Kwon Do and serve as a vehicle in the United States to educate U.S. Taekwondoin about the culture, history, and value of traditional TKD. It also set standards for the certification of Tae Kwon Do instructors and for promotion and issuance of rank to the Tae Kwon Do practitioners in the United States, and initially was working to form a USKKW of sorts. The formation of the United States Taekwondo Won was a great undertaking, requiring an immense commitment of time and money from the grandmasters, however due to political struggles I fear the mission of the USTW will fail because they do not offer anything to school owners that many perceive as valuable.

I was not at the national meetings in the USTW's infancy, so I cannot speak in detail about what exactly happened. All I know is that the USTW has dwindled, and my KJN is the only founder still involved. Looking at the USTC, I hope that they may avoid whatever happened in the USTW and promote TKD the way it appears in their mission statement. [FONT=&quot]
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[puunui]

The USTU had been stripped of its national governing status. It had also been crippled due to its scandals, abuses and self-dealings of its leadership.

The USTU was crippled because people who had zero information were complaining left and right about all kinds of crazy things. I already gave the example of patches and pins that no one wanted. If you have 40,000 members, and it costs $1 each for a patch and pin, that's $80,000 spent on stuff that few want, because a "scandal" erupted over the idea of we don't give value to our membership for their $35. $80,000 would be enough to fund a trip for a full team to an international event. Then, after spending $80,000/year on patches and pins (not including the labor required to put those things into envelopes to send to members), someone forgets or loses the receipt to a restaurant in Korea in which the entire team ate lunch or dinner. So the people who complained about not giving value to members now start complaining loudly about how the USTU is misappropriating USOC grant money because they cannot account for that lunch or dinner receipt, even though everyone knows that the team did eat lunch and dinner on that trip (the head of team of which was your KJN by the way). So $80k for unwanted patches and pins, while complaining about a $300 lunch receipt.

That is the sort of pound foolish/penny wise "scandals, abuses and self-dealings" we are talking about that caused the downfall of the USTU, which led to the creation of USAT. Now those same complainers are attacking USAT, after they lost their coveted USAT positions.

 

[puunui]

The formation of the United States Taekwondo Won was a great undertaking, requiring an immense commitment of time and money from the grandmasters, however due to political struggles I fear the mission of the USTW will fail because they do not offer anything to school owners that many perceive as valuable.

There is no value because no one sees the value in possessing a USTW dan certificate, in much the same way that no one sees the value in a USAT dan certificate. However, a Kukkiwon dan certificate is a different story. A great many people see great value in that.

I was not at the national meetings in the USTW's infancy, so I cannot speak in detail about what exactly happened. All I know is that the USTW has dwindled, and my KJN is the only founder still involved.

A close friend and senior hosted the USTW National Championships one year, so I attended. It was mainly former USTU types, and I have to say it was good to see those faces. I also remember WTF Secretary General YANG Jin Suk was there as well, back when he was a restaurant owner/city councilman. I remember there were issues regarding a USTW election which caused a great many members to quit. Master Robert Fujimura (USTU Past Executive Director) was brought in to try and save the organization, but by then it was too late.

 

[SahBumNimRush]

The USTU was crippled because people who had zero information were complaining left and right about all kinds of crazy things. I already gave the example of patches and pins that no one wanted. If you have 40,000 members, and it costs $1 each for a patch and pin, that's $80,000 spent on stuff that few want, because a "scandal" erupted over the idea of we don't give value to our membership for their $35. $80,000 would be enough to fund a trip for a full team to an international event. Then, after spending $80,000/year on patches and pins (not including the labor required to put those things into envelopes to send to members), someone forgets or loses the receipt to a restaurant in Korea in which the entire team ate lunch or dinner. So the people who complained about not giving value to members now start complaining loudly about how the USTU is misappropriating USOC grant money because they cannot account for that lunch or dinner receipt, even though everyone knows that the team did eat lunch and dinner on that trip (the head of team of which was your KJN by the way). So $80k for unwanted patches and pins, while complaining about a $300 lunch receipt.

That is the sort of pound foolish/penny wise "scandals, abuses and self-dealings" we are talking about that caused the downfall of the USTU, which led to the creation of USAT. Now those same complainers are attacking USAT, after they lost their coveted USAT positions.

I do not disagree with those statements, and I am aware of the "scandel" in Korea you speak of pertaining to my KJN. It left a bad taste in our mouth, and it's why we as an association left the USTU and didn't support the USAT.

It is the complaining you refer to that has crippled many an organization, and I agree $80/year on frivolous items such as pins is a gross misappropriation of funds in the grand scheme of things.

 

[SahBumNimRush]

There is no value because no one sees the value in possessing a USTW dan certificate, in much the same way that no one sees the value in a USAT dan certificate. However, a Kukkiwon dan certificate is a different story. A great many people see great value in that.




A close friend and senior hosted the USTW National Championships one year, so I attended. It was mainly former USTU types, and I have to say it was good to see those faces. I also remember WTF Secretary General YANG Jin Suk was there as well, back when he was a restaurant owner/city councilman. I remember there were issues regarding a USTW election which caused a great many members to quit. Master Robert Fujimura (USTU Past Executive Director) was brought in to try and save the organization, but by then it was too late.

The dan certificate was not what I was referring to. It is the notion that supporting an organization whose mission is the preservation of tradition provides no tangible reward other than supporting tradition. I have a USTW certificate (which means nothing to me) because I am an officer. My Dan certificate through my KJN is what matters to me. I am still unsure, personally, if I wish to seek KKW certification. Mainly because I do not teach or know the KKW curriculum. I am part of an association of dinosaurs. What we teach is prior to the formation of the Palgues, let alone the Taeguks and Yudanja forms. We use different terminology, and the list goes on.

I know I had heard that initially there was involvement from WTF officials in the USTW. The election fiasco was horrendous as I was told, my father was at that meeting as the WV representative. Again it boiled down to arguments and a "pissing match," people wanting power and position more than putting forth the effort to further the organization's mission statement. I know Master Fujimora, and at what capacity he worked for the USTW as well. I won't go into detail, but there were some serious gaps on the books while he was in office, I'll just leave it at that. But that's neither here nor there, no one person is at fault for the fall of any organization.

 

[Balrog]

ATA is another org that I see no value from tournaments and a money making machine so if any ATA people would like to chimein great.

I'll pitch in on this statement to say that it is totally incorrect.

We in the ATA see tremendous value from tournaments. We get to meet and mix it up with people that we don't get to train with on a regular basis. As a result, there is a great deal of "cross-pollination", if you will. When I was actively competing, I would pick up new things from others and bring them back to my school and try them out. Most of them wound up in my bag of tricks.

As far as the money making machine, all I can say is I wish. I haven't made a cent off my school since I've owned it. I teach because I love it.

 

[miguksaram]

Members always have a voice. We are always willing to listen to good ideas. But there really isn't that much to vote on. For example, some individuals have asked that we host a Kukkiwon Instructor Seminar in their area. Our response is if you can guarantee a certain amount of participants, then we can arrange that. Certain larger independent organizations have, for example, expressed an interest in hosting one, primarily for their members. We are always open to that sort of thing. The main rule: If the numbers add up and it helps to spread the Kukkiwon educational and certification goals, then of course we are interested in what you have to say. If there is something that we can do to improve the seminar experience, by all means, let us know.

USTC was created to serve as a conduit for Taekwondoin to the Kukkiwon. What are you interested in voicing your opinion on and what would you vote for or against?

Since joining the USTC, I have always felt that I had a voice. Pres. Lee and Mst. Harris have always responded to any questions or concerns that I had about the direction of the organization. They have always been open to suggestions and willing to work with whoever to better promote the growth of TKD. I think the longest I had to wait for a reply from them was 4 days, because both Pres. Lee and Mst. Harris were in Korea at the time.

 

[ALDiP]

Since joining the USTC, I have always felt that I had a voice. Pres. Lee and Mst. Harris have always responded to any questions or concerns that I had about the direction of the organization. They have always been open to suggestions and willing to work with whoever to better promote the growth of TKD. I think the longest I had to wait for a reply from them was 4 days, because both Pres. Lee and Mst. Harris were in Korea at the time.

I have had the same positive experience with USTC - my questions have always been answered and there was even a follow up to make sure an issue was resolved satisfactorly.