Why did Hwang Kee resist General Choi's attempt to unify the kwans?
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cdunn
2nd Black Belt
It is possible to imagine things in this way. But, I wonder. What follows is wholely my opinion, but...
Kwan Jang Nim Hwang traversed a very difficult path in the process of reaching the point where he could functionally found a martial arts school, let alone one of the larger ones in Korea at the time. The mere existence of the Moo Duk Kwan at all is a testament to a phenominal will power. He had Hwa Soo Do blow up in his face, with all the loss that entails. The instructor he tried to learn what he was told was Taekkyon from rejected him, and concretely so, and instead he tried to steal the martial art. The taijiquan instructor he claimed to have trained under, he also claimed to have been rejected by as a student many times before finally accepting him. He claimed to have worked out the Shotokan forms from a text - an act that we today urge students to never do, because of the sheer difficulty of the act.
It is nearly impossible to sort out what of this history is hard fact, what of it is fact viewed through a filter, and what is purely legend. But in any case, he effectively lifted himself to the level of the other Kwan founders by his own bootstraps. Whatever other talents you may have, you cannot do such a thing without being very, very certain of your course.
And then he was asked to ceed the entirety of his creation over to this new Tae Kwon Do, a new national sport which would be remade, through Choi, in the image of what the Korean government wanted. An image that, I suspect, he could see even at that point, was radically different from what he had worked so hard to make.
We see that he tried to compromise, to work from within. If he had been a part of the central testing committee, there is a chance he could have worked to maintain what he thought as important by making them requirements to advance. But he could not, and he plainly thought that Choi's goals were backwards. And so, he chose to stand behind what he had made, probably doubly sealed in his choice by the factors of 'bad blood' and 'good old boys clubs'. And when a man like that stakes his course, God had better be on your side if you plan on changing it.
But again, that's just my opinion. And I would probably rather see the founder of my art in a positive light.
Wow... that is is really, really good thinking, CD. It makes so much sense...
If it's true, unfortunately, it's almost certainly not going to be possible to ever get hard verification for, by the very nature of things. But it's a great hypothesis and place to start looking for evidence from. Terrific post!
cdunn
2nd Black Belt
7
Unless someone finds a diary, I doubt that any reason for his actions will ever be something that we can find hard evidence for. But it is the best I can do with the circumstantial evidence that I know of.
That resignation letter, though... It's awful blunt and to the point. I would be inclined to take it at face value, unless we have evidence of something else.
The next questions are: What, exactly, was the chartered purpose of the Central Testing Committee? Do we have any records of the changes that KJN Hwang made to the Declaration of Unification for the Korea Kong Soo Do Association?
I think it should be possible to construct an image of what KJN Hwang wanted from the actions he was taking to create it. We know what Choi wanted - He mostly got it. I suspect that when those are constructed, you've set the stage that might begin with a line like: 'Two households, alike in dignity...'
Unless someone finds a diary, I doubt that any reason for his actions will ever be something that we can find hard evidence for. But it is the best I can do with the circumstantial evidence that I know of.
That resignation letter, though... It's awful blunt and to the point. I would be inclined to take it at face value, unless we have evidence of something else.
The next questions are: What, exactly, was the chartered purpose of the Central Testing Committee? Do we have any records of the changes that KJN Hwang made to the Declaration of Unification for the Korea Kong Soo Do Association?
I think it should be possible to construct an image of what KJN Hwang wanted from the actions he was taking to create it. We know what Choi wanted - He mostly got it. I suspect that when those are constructed, you've set the stage that might begin with a line like: 'Two households, alike in dignity...'
...'From ancient grudge break to new mutiny...' Nice, CD!
The letter of resignation... can you tell me where that is? I don't have a copy of the 1995 MDK history book, and it's not available anywhere, so far as I can tell, so if it's in there, I've not seen it. Could you summarize what he says there?
e ship yuk
Yellow Belt
Ah, OK, thanks... not enough sleep last night (or ever, come to think of it). FD, was that the whole of the letter? And can you say where it was published? I've not come across it before...
Thanks to all for this outstanding thread, btw!
zohran
White Belt
Moo Duk Kwan's Hong Chong Soo, who advised Hwang Kee for 36 hours straight on this issue, stated: "The day after the Unification Declaration Ceremony was held, Hwang Kee told me that the declaration was invalid. I could not understand Hwang Kee and told him 'Why do you say that? You are one of the most famous martial artists in the country and you should not say that the Unification Declaration is invalid.' I advised him a lot to try and get him to change his position. Finally, he asked me to call Choi Hong Hi for him. When I gave Hwang Kee the telephone, he told Choi Hong Hi that the declaration was invalid and he hung up the telephone before Choi Hong Hi could respond."
The relationship between Hwang Kee and Choi Hong Hi was bad. Hwang Kee objected to Choi Hong Hi being the president of the Korea Taesoodo Association because he said the art and organization would not develop with Choi Hong Hi in charge.
That's a quote out of the following article:
http://www.fullcontact.co.uk/webs/historydetail.aspx?HistoryID=4
I've seen the above history around a few different places. It's the only place where i have seen the resignation letter mentioned. It's a good read and gets juicy around section 6. I agree that political and personal reasons were the reason of the rift. Political reasoning is easy enough to figure out, but without more knowledge of HK's persona at that time......time machine anyone???
The relationship between Hwang Kee and Choi Hong Hi was bad. Hwang Kee objected to Choi Hong Hi being the president of the Korea Taesoodo Association because he said the art and organization would not develop with Choi Hong Hi in charge.
That's a quote out of the following article:
http://www.fullcontact.co.uk/webs/historydetail.aspx?HistoryID=4
I've seen the above history around a few different places. It's the only place where i have seen the resignation letter mentioned. It's a good read and gets juicy around section 6. I agree that political and personal reasons were the reason of the rift. Political reasoning is easy enough to figure out, but without more knowledge of HK's persona at that time......time machine anyone???
Right, except that Belichik then made that long slightly incoherent speech letting everyone know pretty much just what was bugging him (everything, apparently) about the Jets job... HK never did anything comparable, so far as one knows, lol.
Since the beginning of the Kong soo Do Association to now there have been quabbles. GM Kee and Gen. Choi didn't get along but this resignation letter was from the time Gen. Choi was in Malaysia and had nothing to do with the KTA. If you feel you will lose power you will complain or quit which is what these masters did. It seemed to have worked out for the better with the Soo Bak Do ***. and GM Kee.
Mike
cdunn
2nd Black Belt
I dunno. Sometimes not saying much at all says way more than a rambling philosophical tract. That letter reads to me as:
"You want me to do everything that's important in martial arts the wrong way. I cannot and will not do so."
Given who he wrote that letter with, I think we have to take it at its declared value. The Jido Kwan Jang, after all, was the same man who prized unity enough to attempt to keep the Moo Duk Kwan from legally forming up in 1959/60, a bare 2/3 years before this resignation letter. I have to believe that KJN Hwang was firmly convinced that both Choi's technical direction and his 'nationalization' of the art was inherently in error. From the Jido Kwan member I've talked a bit here and there, I can't help but expect that over time, KJN Yoon came to see the same thing that KJN Hwang did, especially after living with it.
I would like to think that it goes far beyond a mere disagreement over some hyung and maybe some dollar signs. I would like to think that Hwang Kee saw Choi threatening the very existance of the martial art that was, in effect, the product of his entire life, his magnum opus. And he chose to defend it. He fought for it because he felt he was right to do so. Because that's what he had always done.
OP
OP
THAT was an interesting article. I have not seen that information before. Can anyone back this up?
UpN, the source of that article (unattributed in the cited site, alas) is this monograph by Kang Won-sik and Lee Kyong-myong. It's one of the main documents bearing the... um, interpersonal history of TKD. Not much on the technical history, which for me is the really important angle, but the article faithfully excerpts stuff from KWS and LKM's chronicle..
OP
OP
Still, its an interesting read. I'm only partially through it. My first impression is that "those days" were the "wild west" of Korean Martial Arts. Everybody and their brother seemed to be setting off and attempting to form this or that school. The schools that got big were the ones that had the best marketing schemes.
Once that happened, the fat cats who had the power of the government behind them, swooped in and attempted to form a monopoly. They pulled most people in and left out those who did not really accept the vision of what was happening.
One thing I am left wondering is whether or not the fact that Hwang Kee learned the bulk of his MA from books had any effect on what happened. The article that Exile posted states that Lee Won Kuk and others visited the Moo Duk Kwan and were not impressed by the testing requirements. I get the feeling, when looking at what both articles said, that many just saw it as a belt factory.
With that being said, I have to wonder how much the defacto karate/judo/japanese ranking affected the kwan unification process. Hwang Kee certainly had one of the weakest CVs of all the GMs present. That had to play some part...
Once that happened, the fat cats who had the power of the government behind them, swooped in and attempted to form a monopoly. They pulled most people in and left out those who did not really accept the vision of what was happening.
One thing I am left wondering is whether or not the fact that Hwang Kee learned the bulk of his MA from books had any effect on what happened. The article that Exile posted states that Lee Won Kuk and others visited the Moo Duk Kwan and were not impressed by the testing requirements. I get the feeling, when looking at what both articles said, that many just saw it as a belt factory.
With that being said, I have to wonder how much the defacto karate/judo/japanese ranking affected the kwan unification process. Hwang Kee certainly had one of the weakest CVs of all the GMs present. That had to play some part...
My impression also, to a 'T'.
And they did it repeatedly. Once Gen. Choi fell from grace, having served the function of forming a central TKD dirctorate, they exiled him and found another convenient apparatchik to serve the same role.
And that would only exacerbate the factors that cdunn was talking about... unbelievable defensiveness and reactiveness involved there, I think. This ties into the suspicion I wrote about earlier that HK may have been been reacting to the elitist assumptions of the 'Good old boys' who'd received the 'approved' Japanese karate accolade. I think probably all these factors came into play... absolutely expolosive chemistry, when you think about it. HK, the self-made man of the early Kwan era, vs. the club swanks lounging around in their Funakoshi/Toyama-certified BBs, and all of the background that cd envisioned... it's hard to imagine any other outcome, if you think about it from that angle.
You're more than welcome, z. It's a key source... but you have to watch out for the undercurrent of anti-HK and anti-Choi bias in the reportage. The authors are WTF/KKW stalwarts. Their perspective is that of the modern Korean TKD directorate. Still, there's some potentially very useful background here...
... dammit, what we really need is a time machine, eh!?
FieldDiscipline
2nd Black Belt
Ah ha! I'm glad you found a link to that exile.
That is indeed the whole letter.
That is indeed the whole letter.
Whew... talk about brusque, eh?
HK was clearly very pissed off at that point...
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