Who will impact EPAK the most in the next 10 years?
- Thread starter Old Fat Kenpoka
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Actually it is used widely throughout various sports requiring maximum perfomarnce of the human body. Golf is one example.
It also can be found within the studies of Kinesiology so it is
hardly something Id call "hocus pocus." Certainly it would
be benficial to take this proven idea and apply it within our motion
not only to increase performance, but to prevent injury at the
same time. This is just one example of the innovation that
has helped evolve the motion of those that are learning the
system in the AKKI. At the very least it has helped me.
S
Snake Pliskin
Guest
With regards to D1 and D2 patterns that Robert asked about, to my understanding(limited at best)is that they are extremity patterns that fall into unilateral, bilateral, and trunk patterns. In terms of motor unit facilitation, the greatest demands are placed on a muscle during the performance of unilateral patterns. These patterns are diagonal in nature. Mr Parker said “the true aim of kenpo was to round off corners and elongate circles.” That would then translate as moving in diagonals and ellipticals/spirals. Then if moving in these patterns are so important, it stands to reason to apply correct principles of movement and motion to them to effect proper application.
Within these patterns lie the D1 D2 flexion and extension patterns. There are upper and lower extremity D1F, D1E and D2F, D2E patterns. Flexion and extension could be seen as looking at your hand stretching out your fingers as extension and making a fist as flexion. All diagonals have both a flexor and an extensor direction which is determined by the movement of the shoulder and the hip. These movements include pelvic protraction, retraction, elevation, and depression; Scapular abduction, adduction; Shoulder flexion and extension; Forearm pronation and supination. The knee and elbow, whether flexed or extended, can vary with each pattern. The patterns can be performed in all postures within various techniques.
What Mr. Mills has done is gain an understanding of all these patterns that guide our movement, no matter the application, to enhance, further innovate, and facilitate motion so effortlessly that it then can take full advantage of the physics(and all itÂ’s applications) which he outlined in the technique write up for the 3 - 4 inch chop on the AKKI site.
I am not a PT and those who read this, please correct me where I am wrong. I am just starting to get some information on this subject.
Hope this helps
Within these patterns lie the D1 D2 flexion and extension patterns. There are upper and lower extremity D1F, D1E and D2F, D2E patterns. Flexion and extension could be seen as looking at your hand stretching out your fingers as extension and making a fist as flexion. All diagonals have both a flexor and an extensor direction which is determined by the movement of the shoulder and the hip. These movements include pelvic protraction, retraction, elevation, and depression; Scapular abduction, adduction; Shoulder flexion and extension; Forearm pronation and supination. The knee and elbow, whether flexed or extended, can vary with each pattern. The patterns can be performed in all postures within various techniques.
What Mr. Mills has done is gain an understanding of all these patterns that guide our movement, no matter the application, to enhance, further innovate, and facilitate motion so effortlessly that it then can take full advantage of the physics(and all itÂ’s applications) which he outlined in the technique write up for the 3 - 4 inch chop on the AKKI site.
I am not a PT and those who read this, please correct me where I am wrong. I am just starting to get some information on this subject.
Hope this helps
R
Rainman
Guest
Very interesting Snake- thanks for sharing your information.
K
Kenpo Yahoo
Guest
Between Fastmover and Snake, you've been given about as good a description as you can get without talking directly with Mills or stepping out onto a mat with someone who understands the various patterns.
Once you figure out what the patterns are, you can begin to incorporate these movements into everything you do. It is a very arduous process to retrain your movements, but after a little practice you'll be wondering why you weren't using them before.
Luckily, for the up and comers, enough people have access to the information that they will hopefully be given this base from day one instead of having to retrain due to finely ingrained bad habits.
What's real fun is when you understand them enough to start grafting in and out of the various patterns. Couple this with the AKKI timing drills and you have a pretty fierce combination.
These are just a few things that have been introduced, or at least refined, by Mr. Mills and the AKKI Board.
Once you figure out what the patterns are, you can begin to incorporate these movements into everything you do. It is a very arduous process to retrain your movements, but after a little practice you'll be wondering why you weren't using them before.
Luckily, for the up and comers, enough people have access to the information that they will hopefully be given this base from day one instead of having to retrain due to finely ingrained bad habits.
What's real fun is when you understand them enough to start grafting in and out of the various patterns. Couple this with the AKKI timing drills and you have a pretty fierce combination.
These are just a few things that have been introduced, or at least refined, by Mr. Mills and the AKKI Board.
Les
Brown Belt
What he said!
I could never have explained it so well because I don't fully understand it. But I KNOW it works, and it's NOT hocus pocus.
I couldn't explain necular fusion either, because I don't fully understand it. But I KNOW it works, and it's NOT hocus pocus.
I couldn't explain Quantum Physicis, because I don't fully understand it. But I KNOW it works, and it's NOT hocus pocus.
But to get back to the original subject of the thread, just look at the impact Mr Mills had made here on this forum, and HE didn't even post anything.
Kind of like when you drop a pebble into a pond, and the ripples spread outwards. The thing is, the ripples are bigger/stronger nearest the centre, and they diminish as they spread out.
Here in Europe, I'm one of the furtherest ripples, so I guess that why I can't explain the newer innovations so well. But I KNOW they work, and they're NOT hocus pocus.
Les
Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
There are many out there working hard on keeping the Art alive...... I don't see it going away in the next few thousand years!
R
rmcrobertson
Guest
Thank you for the replies; it's more or less what I suspected--with the exception of linking using different muscle groups and flexion/extension to, "rounding off corners," but it's nice to have the more-technical language.
Isn't it kind of implicit in the way kenpo works anyway, which was what you folks said? I'm afraid I'm not sure that it seems "new," or "evolutionary."
I should also note, since I guess I wasn't clear, that the, "hocus pocus," comment came out of the several evasions of what I had thought was a simple question. It certainly isn't hocus pocus, even though I might find it framed a little over-elaborately.
Thank you for the courteous responses; I appreciate the info.
Isn't it kind of implicit in the way kenpo works anyway, which was what you folks said? I'm afraid I'm not sure that it seems "new," or "evolutionary."
I should also note, since I guess I wasn't clear, that the, "hocus pocus," comment came out of the several evasions of what I had thought was a simple question. It certainly isn't hocus pocus, even though I might find it framed a little over-elaborately.
Thank you for the courteous responses; I appreciate the info.
R
rmcrobertson
Guest
"Ask your instructor."
Kinda insulting, ain't it?
I'd be more interested in what you think. I assume that it is, roughly speaking--please note the qualifiers--something I learned a while back and continue to work on: in, say, a back-knuckle, one set of muscles fires the thing out, another brings it back.
When one starts doing, for example, Striking Set 1, things get complex. I'd think that would be a good example of this extensor/flexor usages, especially when you you start developing that set from linear to more-circular movement...
Something I've been working on for while is interpolating a back-knuckle before the vertical punches to the sides, and trying to continue the circular motions through the punches, the "recoils," from the punches, and on into the following strikes...
Or is that way off?
I'll look forward to finding out what you think, so I can understand the concept.
Kinda insulting, ain't it?
I'd be more interested in what you think. I assume that it is, roughly speaking--please note the qualifiers--something I learned a while back and continue to work on: in, say, a back-knuckle, one set of muscles fires the thing out, another brings it back.
When one starts doing, for example, Striking Set 1, things get complex. I'd think that would be a good example of this extensor/flexor usages, especially when you you start developing that set from linear to more-circular movement...
Something I've been working on for while is interpolating a back-knuckle before the vertical punches to the sides, and trying to continue the circular motions through the punches, the "recoils," from the punches, and on into the following strikes...
Or is that way off?
I'll look forward to finding out what you think, so I can understand the concept.
K
Kenpo Yahoo
Guest
There's the response I expected. You just can't help yourself, can you? It's a wonder anyone answers your questions at all.
Not really.
Good for you, but this isn't really what we're talking about.
It's not more technical language, rather more detailed instructions on how to perform a specific move and/or combination of moves using these particular patterns. No it's not Implicit otherwise you would be doing it, and you aren't!!!!
Before you start arguing," How do you know I'm not???" I know you aren't using them because neither Clyde nor Mr. Tatum use them, so unless you are studying under someone else in your free time you aren't using them either.
Actually I think you missed what I was saying by “ask your instructor.” Not
so rude if you consider the argument at hand and your words of choice in
expressing your opinion. Along these lines, you routinely bully your way
around on the forum and then when confronted take the roll of the victim.
Anyway you have been consistently debating the legitimacy of new innovations and
the roll of some Kenpo instructors in developing them. If these concepts
were indeed old school then I was assuming your instructor would already
be aware of these things. He can explain and demonstrate these things far
better then I can describe them on a forum. Was I wrong to recommend this
to you? If your not fully satisfied with the answer and there is something that
truly interest you, then I recommend you search out and train with those who
can help you.
Let me also say this, I know that you have never trained or worked personally
With Mr. Mills and before you go and question the legitimacy of his teachings,
you should search out and educate yourself first hand before questioning what
he does in a public forum. This would be the respectful thing to do. Until then maybe
it would be beneficial to keep an open mind?
As I know your style of writing is to have the last word Ill give it to you. Hopefully
your search for knowledge will come with a little more humility in the future.
Les
Brown Belt
Robert,
Does something have to be 'new' to qualify as evolution?
Assume I live in a small country in the Middle East, and we just got our first power station built.
Now we're using electricity in our country for the very first time.
Isn't out country evolving?
We Middle Eastern's are pretty excited about this new innovation, (although we can't all explain how it works), but some people in other countries are saying we're not evolving.
We get upset about this, sharpen our keyboards and go to war with our detractors. (I chose the word 'detractors' specifically)
By the way, we didn't tell the western world, but our's is a nuclear power station.
Peace Man
Les
R
rmcrobertson
Guest
I'm still waiting to read the explanation of what I got wrong. Writing, "No, ha-ha," or, "go look it up," is not an explanation. It's an evasion.
As for "Fastmover's," (hey, at least I use my real name, dude) contention that I am somehow being disrespectful by asking questions, well, I repeat: in the academic world, many (NOT ALL BUT MANY) of the kinds of responses I've seen here are good strong signals that the speaker hasn't a clue.
As for the, "bullying," contention, well, I don't seem to recall telling anybody that they had no right to ask a question, or attacking anybody's character, or accusing anybody of being arrogant, or referring to anybody's teacher as, "mills," or any of this other nonsense.
If you must think of Internet discussion as some kind of fight, OK. Here's how to win. Demonstrate superior knowledge, a better grasp of fact, clearer and more-subtle language, stronger ideas.
Les, to me "evolutionary," implies progress; an advance over the state of things as they are. I realize that there have been reformulations of Darwin's ideas, which are generally thought now to be too wedded to a fantasy of improvement. But isn't a claim of progress, not just change or difference, precisely what's being made here?
Just explain, folks. Then you "win," if your ideas and evidence are good. For example, explain what's wrong with my citation of Striking Set 1 in this context, since that necessarily involves employing different muscle groups to "round off," corners, precisely what I was told this D1/D2 bidness does. Just explain. Then, this other crap is completely unnecessary.
As for "Fastmover's," (hey, at least I use my real name, dude) contention that I am somehow being disrespectful by asking questions, well, I repeat: in the academic world, many (NOT ALL BUT MANY) of the kinds of responses I've seen here are good strong signals that the speaker hasn't a clue.
As for the, "bullying," contention, well, I don't seem to recall telling anybody that they had no right to ask a question, or attacking anybody's character, or accusing anybody of being arrogant, or referring to anybody's teacher as, "mills," or any of this other nonsense.
If you must think of Internet discussion as some kind of fight, OK. Here's how to win. Demonstrate superior knowledge, a better grasp of fact, clearer and more-subtle language, stronger ideas.
Les, to me "evolutionary," implies progress; an advance over the state of things as they are. I realize that there have been reformulations of Darwin's ideas, which are generally thought now to be too wedded to a fantasy of improvement. But isn't a claim of progress, not just change or difference, precisely what's being made here?
Just explain, folks. Then you "win," if your ideas and evidence are good. For example, explain what's wrong with my citation of Striking Set 1 in this context, since that necessarily involves employing different muscle groups to "round off," corners, precisely what I was told this D1/D2 bidness does. Just explain. Then, this other crap is completely unnecessary.
Brother John
Senior Master
Robert-
He does use his first and last name, but you've got to click on "profile" to see Mr. Connolly's full name and location, and rank and art(s). Then, knowing he's in the AKKI, you could go to the AKKI website and find out even more about him perhaps- like the part he plays in the association and other contact info.
Your Brother
John (who's last name is Haag and is located Wichita Ks.)
OP
OP
Old Fat Kenpoka
Master Black Belt
This thread started out as an opportunity to talk about the good things happening in Kenpo. I actually started it because I wanted to play nice for a while...
So what happened? I thought Snake Pliskin answered the question and explained some of the unfamiliar terminology? Is it permissible for somebody to actually like a concept or technique that wasn't in Infinite Insights and isn't taught by a 10th degree from Southern CA? What are you guys still arguing about?
So what happened? I thought Snake Pliskin answered the question and explained some of the unfamiliar terminology? Is it permissible for somebody to actually like a concept or technique that wasn't in Infinite Insights and isn't taught by a 10th degree from Southern CA? What are you guys still arguing about?
R
rmcrobertson
Guest
Same old same old, Alan. Leave my alleged slavishness out of it, and I'll leave--as I always do--whatever I stupidly fantasize are your character/training flaws out of it.
Meanwhile, if you'll go back and actually read the posts, I thanked the guy for the info, gave what I thought was a reasonably polite statement of my understanding of it, and immediately received back the usual boatload (except from Les, who generally speaking seems to have better manners than me).
I realize that you prob'ly won't buy this, but I'm perfectly open to learning something. It's just that I actually want to learn something from the several people on this thread who know more than I do, not repeatedly get told that I shouldn't be asking, I must be a Bad Person for asking, I have no right to phrase questions the way I phrase questions, and anyway your instructor produces slavish behaviour.
I simply asked questions and wrote what I thought. Oooh. So what if I'm wrong, or even ignorant? The way to respond to that is to offer information--especially when, sorry, but my initial impression was, "O wow, here's all this stuff I don't know anything about."
Whyn't you just explain how you see the technical issue, or why I've got it wrong. If I'm so far off--for that matter, if I'm so hidebound, frozen and slavish--it really shouldn't be hard to do.
Meanwhile, if you'll go back and actually read the posts, I thanked the guy for the info, gave what I thought was a reasonably polite statement of my understanding of it, and immediately received back the usual boatload (except from Les, who generally speaking seems to have better manners than me).
I realize that you prob'ly won't buy this, but I'm perfectly open to learning something. It's just that I actually want to learn something from the several people on this thread who know more than I do, not repeatedly get told that I shouldn't be asking, I must be a Bad Person for asking, I have no right to phrase questions the way I phrase questions, and anyway your instructor produces slavish behaviour.
I simply asked questions and wrote what I thought. Oooh. So what if I'm wrong, or even ignorant? The way to respond to that is to offer information--especially when, sorry, but my initial impression was, "O wow, here's all this stuff I don't know anything about."
Whyn't you just explain how you see the technical issue, or why I've got it wrong. If I'm so far off--for that matter, if I'm so hidebound, frozen and slavish--it really shouldn't be hard to do.
Brother John
Senior Master
OFK has an excellent point, it began very positive and got side-tracked far into the woods of negativity by others. Too bad really.
Here's something. The two men that've recieved the most votes thus far are Mr. Tatum and Mr. Mills. There's been several Mr. Mills voters that have come out and talked at length about WHY we voted for him (whether other's agree as to what he's done or not). How about reasons from those who voted for Mr. Tatum? Or for some of the others as well.
NOTE: This is not a challenge, nor am I hoping for any kind of pizzing contest here...just like to get back to why we voted the way we did.
Lets leave this negativity in the hands of those who started that sticky ball rolling and get back to the thread.
Just a thought...
Your Brother
John
Here's something. The two men that've recieved the most votes thus far are Mr. Tatum and Mr. Mills. There's been several Mr. Mills voters that have come out and talked at length about WHY we voted for him (whether other's agree as to what he's done or not). How about reasons from those who voted for Mr. Tatum? Or for some of the others as well.
NOTE: This is not a challenge, nor am I hoping for any kind of pizzing contest here...just like to get back to why we voted the way we did.
Lets leave this negativity in the hands of those who started that sticky ball rolling and get back to the thread.
Just a thought...
Your Brother
John
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