Who will impact EPAK the most in the next 10 years?

[Fastmover]

Where is this video posted that everyone is talking about??

Mike

Many videos including the one you are requesting are here. Better hurry before ?someone? has it removed.

www.geocities.com/kenpo_2000/at_the_movies.html

 

[MJS]

Thank you for the link!! :asian:

 

[rmcrobertson]

I thought I'd been rather clear: being videotaped, and public exhibitions, not something I have a gift for, enjoy or am particularly good at. However, I'm reasonably happy with the results as they were four or five years ago. Were they fast and flashy tournament-winners? No. Were they carried out with knowledge, power and control? Yes, with the exception of that pretty-embarassing sloppy handsword out of a chicken kick.

So thanks for the offhand slams papered over with language ("fruit of my labors," very nice...Fruit of my Loom, more likely), Mr. Connolly. If you really think I violated basic principles, I'd just say onhand that you are mistaken.

But I see that you haven't chosen to name or discuss these principles in any fashion, let alone offering links to your many videos: could you perhaps explain exactly what you mean, rather than just coming back with more of the same?

Otherwise, I guess I'll just keep muddling through, thanks. I understand your concerns and motives, though, just as I did when you were expressing pretty much the same sorts of concerns and motives on behalf of the AKKI over on KenpoNet during the last two weeks.

 

[BruceCalkins]

Greetings Borther John.
Sorry it took me a while to reply to your comment but I am not on all the
time
No Kyoshi Austin is defenitly American Kenpo. As a matter of fact he worked with Paul Mill and he has a foundation called "IBBA" International Black Belt Association" His Dojos are spread all over the states but the main school is in Greenly Co.
http://www.ibbakarate.com/index.asp
http://www.unitedmartialartsalliance.com/

These two Sites will tell you more

 

[Fastmover]

Otherwise, I guess I'll just keep muddling through, thanks. I understand your concerns and motives, though, just as I did when you were expressing pretty much the same sorts of concerns and motives on behalf of the AKKI over on KenpoNet during the last two weeks.

Sorry Robert......I do not speak on behalf or represent the opinion of an entire association. I am an individual speaking on my own behalf.

As for me on video, I have been on videos on the AKKI and/or seminars web sight.

Out of respect for the host of this sight, I will reframe from a public word war with you. However if you would like to continue this discussion, feel free to send me a PM.

 

[howardr]

Robert in your case after watching the video it is my belief that you are defying many of the principles of Kenpo taught by Mr. Parker. As I noted earlier I will reframe from sequentially listing the reasons why. But since we are discussing the developement of different systems structure, one has to wonder if there would be a better way for you to internalize proper boby mechanics throughout your vocabulary of motion. The fruits of your labor is not what I was expecting for someone of your experience.

Moving on.....as to your video being shown on the internet...personally I had been looking forward to seeing you move because I was expecting a lot after reading many of your postings on the forums. An advanced ranking black belt should not hesitate in demonstrating their abilities in front of others. It makes them accountable and keeps them from being a salesman of motion. Given that you routinely volunteer your words on the interent, I wonder why you would not give permission to show a video highlighting your physical abilities on the internet....unless you are a salesman of motion yourself?

Take Care

In Defense of Robert
(who can adequately defend himself, I might add)
What did you think was so poor about Robert's movement? You claim that he violates many of Mr. Parker's principles. I'd certainly like to see you back up that accusation (I subscribe to a different approach to Kenpo than Robert, but given the modality he subscribes to, I'm not really clear what you are getting at). Sure, we can nitpick a particular instance of anyone's execution, but what does that really tell us about the person's skill? It's certainly not that his movement was anywhere near the poor examples we have from alleged "masters," such as Spry. Robert doesn't hold himself out to be a master (in fact he's self-deprecatingly referred to his own abilities on many occasions), nor should that (that he isn't a "master") be an impediment to the valid criticism he often presents. That criticism should stand or fall on its own merits.

Some other things to keep in mind:
- he's on video in front of an audience; that's quite a bit of pressure, and I'm sure my movement would substantially degrade in similar circumstances (I'd hope that viewers would be gracious in their evaluations)
- he didn't start Kenpo as a child but as an adult; he's obviously doing pretty damn well for someone starting later in life
- he's performing a fairly complex routine
- that was several years ago; he's likely progressed from the skill level demonstrated on the video

Given the above considerations, I find it somewhat disturbing that personal criticism is leveled so easily. The fact is we don't know how far Robert was come in his movement from first starting Kenpo, but I only imagine it's a stupendously long way (given his own descriptions). He certainly moves a lot better than much of what I've seen out there, especially for someone of his age and for someone who has indicated that his isn't naturally talented in these sort of physical arts. I say good show!

ps, please don't take the references to "age" as any sort of knock. It isn't. It's just the simple recognition that physically intense and sophisticated activities, such as Kenpo, can be substantially more difficult the older we get, and are certainly more difficult if started as a mature adult.

 

[rmcrobertson]

That was very kind of you, HowardR, especially given that crappy handsword. And I'm not in the least offended by the age thing---started at 38 or 39, around 14 years ago, and well...I look forward to the day when I can look at guys trying to do this stuff in the 50s, and smirk a knowing smirk...course, by then, I'll probably be reduced to lying in bed and watching David Carradine t'ai chi videos.

But I do think that the video's a fair-enough representation of where I was back then. I was also interested to find out which principles I'd violated, but I guess not.

I've considered getting a big poster made...huge picture of me, and captioned:

KENPO KARATE...IF THIS SCHMUCK CAN DO IT, YOU CERTAINLY CAN

 

[Kenpodoc]

In Defense of Robert
(who can adequately defend himself, I might add)
What did you think was so poor about Robert's movement? You claim that he violates many of Mr. Parker's principles. I'd certainly like to see you back up that accusation (I subscribe to a different approach to Kenpo than Robert, but given the modality he subscribes to, I'm not really clear what you are getting at). Sure, we can nitpick a particular instance of anyone's execution, but what does that really tell us about the person's skill? It's certainly not that his movement was anywhere near the poor examples we have from alleged "masters," such as Spry. Robert doesn't hold himself out to be a master (in fact he's self-deprecatingly referred to his own abilities on many occasions), nor should that (that he isn't a "master") be an impediment to the valid criticism he often presents. That criticism should stand or fall on its own merits.

Some other things to keep in mind:
- he's on video in front of an audience; that's quite a bit of pressure, and I'm sure my movement would substantially degrade in similar circumstances (I'd hope that viewers would be gracious in their evaluations)
- he didn't start Kenpo as a child but as an adult; he's obviously doing pretty damn well for someone starting later in life
- he's performing a fairly complex routine
- that was several years ago; he's likely progressed from the skill level demonstrated on the video

Given the above considerations, I find it somewhat disturbing that personal criticism is leveled so easily. The fact is we don't know how far Robert was come in his movement from first starting Kenpo, but I only imagine it's a stupendously long way (given his own descriptions). He certainly moves a lot better than much of what I've seen out there, especially for someone of his age and for someone who has indicated that his isn't naturally talented in these sort of physical arts. I say good show!

ps, please don't take the references to "age" as any sort of knock. It isn't. It's just the simple recognition that physically intense and sophisticated activities, such as Kenpo, can be substantially more difficult the older we get, and are certainly more difficult if started as a mature adult.

I was getting ready to write a similar response and am grateful you saved me the time. Robert moved better than most, sure it wasn't perfect but neither are the rest of us. I will say that in general he moved better than me.

Robert you should be proud of what you did. No appologies necessary for not reaching perfection.

I've criticised other videos I've seen on the internet because they are presented as the ideal and yet are severely flawed. Robert's performance was not ideal but it was good Kenpo.

Respectfully,

Jeff :asian:

 

[howardr]

I was getting ready to write a similar response and am grateful you saved me the time. Robert moved better than most, sure it wasn't perfect but neither are the rest of us. I will say that in general he moved better than me.

Robert you should be proud of what you did. No appologies necessary for not reaching perfection.

I've criticised other videos I've seen on the internet because they are presented as the ideal and yet are severely flawed. Robert's performance was not ideal but it was good Kenpo.

Respectfully,

Jeff :asian:

In addition, I think we should keep something else in mind that's relevant here. Yes, Robert has criticized certain Kenpo methodologies for introducing or advocating improper mechanics and principles (or excising proper ones) into their base curriculum (basics, sets, techniques, forms, etc.) for any number of dubious reasons (it's faster; it's "original"; it's more "street effective"; etc.). To my mind, such criticism does NOT mean that Robert is saying that in any particular application or encounter (or demonstration in front of an audience for that matter) that a pracititioner (which would include himself) will flawlessly enact all such principles and mechanics. What he's saying is that we shouldn't throw them out from the get-go. We should train in a certain manner, so that when actually applied under stress something functional, even if not perfect, will come out. That seems eminently reasonable to me, and exactly what Robert's been consistently advocating for some time now.

 

[Trejo]

Jamie Seabrook(6th degree) from Canada will impact EPAK in the next 10 years

 

[Rick Wade]

All Hail Mr. S were not worthy... were not worthy.... Were scum.


V/R

Rick English

 

[Kenpo Yahoo]

Robert doesn't hold himself out to be a master (in fact he's self-deprecatingly referred to his own abilities on many occasions), nor should that (that he isn't a "master") be an impediment to the valid criticism he often presents. That criticism should stand or fall on its own merits.

The criticism means more from someone that can actually execute the material in a proficient manner. This is kinda like taking investment advice from someone who always loses money in the market. They sure can talk a good game, but if they know so much why aren't they doing it themselves.

- he's on video in front of an audience; that's quite a bit of pressure, and I'm sure my movement would substantially degrade in similar circumstances (I'd hope that viewers would be gracious in their evaluations)

Sure stress sucks, but if you can't combat the adrenal dump in a non-threatening situation what do you think will happen when someone is actually trying to hurt you. Besides why do we all have to qualify everything. You either did well or you did poorly.

Given the above considerations, I find it somewhat disturbing that personal criticism is leveled so easily. The fact is we don't know how far Robert was come in his movement from first starting Kenpo, but I only imagine it's a stupendously long way (given his own descriptions).

What are you his mom? Robert levels attacks against people and organizations all the time, throughout various forums. He's a grown man. Let him stick up for himself.

He certainly moves a lot better than much of what I've seen out there, especially for someone of his age and for someone who has indicated that his isn't naturally talented in these sort of physical arts. I say good show!

That's not saying all that much. We've all scene the Kenpo- CA-CA out there on the web. My gripe is that if you want to level criticism about how everyone else is working out or executing material than be prepared for scrutiny. If you can't stand the pressure then you are just another paper-warrior and we already have too many of those.

 

[howardr]

The criticism means more from someone that can actually execute the material in a proficient manner. This is kinda like taking investment advice from someone who always loses money in the market. They sure can talk a good game, but if they know so much why aren't they doing it themselves.

Ouch! I'm glad there isn't a video of me on the Web! I mean, sure, the better you are yourself at executing the material, the more weight we might ascribe to your views. However, it's not like Robert executed it like this.

Sure stress sucks, but if you can't combat the adrenal dump in a non-threatening situation what do you think will happen when someone is actually trying to hurt you. Besides why do we all have to qualify everything. You either did well or you did poorly.

Sure, that's true. Just saying under stress, it's not going to come out as "pretty" as it's going to under non-stressed pristine circumstances.

What are you his mom? Robert levels attacks against people and organizations all the time, throughout various forums. He's a grown man. Let him stick up for himself.

I responded because it seemed like he was being attacked unfairly. Anything wrong with that?

That's not saying all that much. We've all scene the Kenpo- CA-CA out there on the web. My gripe is that if you want to level criticism about how everyone else is working out or executing material than be prepared for scrutiny. If you can't stand the pressure then you are just another paper-warrior and we already have too many of those.

Sure, be prepared for scrutinty. However, Robert's interlocutor made snipes without backing them up. I responded and asked for clarification. So far, an explanation has not been forthcoming.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Yes, he certainly can.

First off, Yahoo--good choice, that--you have no idea what you're talking about.

Second, it takes something special to look good on video, and in public demonstrations. I respect people who can do that; I don't think that's everything there is to a martial art, and I don't think that that particular talent and desire is superior to everything else. But then, I didn't go in to a martial art to learn how to perform: did you? Personally, I'm rather more interested in--and proud of--the fact that I have several students who are far more dynamic and charismatic in public than I am. Do you?

Still, I do want to encourage you to consider me a paper tiger. (It's probably because of my lousy teachers, weak opponents, and lack of mat time.) I suspect you know better; but then, I suspect that you are showing just what sort of influence you plan to be on American kenpo.

 

[Kenpo Yahoo]

howardr
Sure, be prepared for scrutinty. However, Robert's interlocutor made snipes without backing them up. I responded and asked for clarification. So far, an explanation has not been forthcoming.

The title of this thread was not "What is Robert doing wrong?" That can be saved for other threads I'm am just tired of various people, who at this point will remain nameless, throwing out endless criticisms of what others are doing but don't seem to like it when their efforts are scrutinized. Big mouths make big targets.

Robert
you have no idea what you're talking about.

If you say so....

Personally, I'm rather more interested in--and proud of--the fact that I have several students who are far more dynamic and charismatic in public than I am.

I can believe that.

Still, I do want to encourage you to consider me a paper tiger. (It's probably because of my lousy teachers, weak opponents, and lack of mat time.)

Never said you had a lousy teacher, but that reminds me of a college class I took. The professor was brilliant, PhD from MIT and all that, but half the class failed while the other half had 'A' averages. That doesn't mean the professor was bad, does it? By the way, mat time means nothing. It's what you are doing with your time while on the mat that makes a difference.

I suspect you know better; but then, I suspect that you are showing just what sort of influence you plan to be on American kenpo

I guess we will just have to wait and see now won't we.... :uhyeah:

 

[Dark Kenpo Lord]

The title of this thread was not "What is Robert doing wrong?" That can be saved for other threads I'm am just tired of various people, who at this point will remain nameless, throwing out endless criticisms of what others are doing but don't seem to like it when their efforts are scrutinized. Big mouths make big targets.

If you say so....

I can believe that.

Never said you had a lousy teacher, but that reminds me of a college class I took. The professor was brilliant, PhD from MIT and all that, but half the class failed while the other half had 'A' averages. That doesn't mean the professor was bad, does it? By the way, mat time means nothing. It's what you are doing with your time while on the mat that makes a difference.

I guess we will just have to wait and see now won't we.... :uhyeah:

So, are you going to create a better Kenpo based on the teachings of Paul Mills?

DarK LorD

 

[Kenpo Yahoo]

So, are you going to create a better Kenpo based on the teachings of Paul Mills?

No, but I will call people to the floor that have no skill yet try to make everyone else feel dumb simply because they don't agree with what's being done or said.

Clyde while you are here, maybe you can help me out with something that has been bugging me for a while now. Larry Tatum moves the Parker material better than most of the other seniors that I've seen, except for maybe one or two, but here's what gets me. Why is it that Larry moves so well but none of his students can move the material anywhere near as well as he does?

You see, there are a number of people in the AKKI that, while they may not be as imposing of a force as Mr. Mills, can move the material similiar to the way he does. Granted he has alot more experience, and who knows maybe he's genetically predisposed for such an art, but he has always been interested in trying to make others move the material as well as he does, if not better (his words). He's always been caring and forthright when someone asks a good question and truly hungers for the answer. Plus, he can move the material and drop a man like no one I've ever seen before. I must say that when we compare the video of you and your buddy Robert to Mr. Tatum.... well ... I think you see where I'm going with this.

By the way Clyde, I read on one of the other forums that you got kicked out of the IKC's for being beligerent and rude. That's about Par for the course isn't it?

 

[rmcrobertson]

Yeah, Yahoo, that's what I figured. You never had any intention of discussing anything; you just thought you saw a vulnerability, and you tried to exploit it.

I'm not a bit surprised that you worked around to trying the cheap shot at Mr. Tatum....you know, the one where you claim that he can't teach and pass on the art. It'd be hilarious, considering who his students have been, if it weren't for the ugly intent.

If that spirit in which you wrote your last four posts is exemplary of how you train, where you train, and what you've learned, please hang on to it very tightly. I know I don't want any of it on me.

And pretty please with a cherry on top, do continue to consider me a paper tiger.

 

[MJS]

Mod. Note.
Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful.

-MJS
-MT Moderator-

 

[Fastmover]

Mod. Note.
Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful.

-MJS
-MT Moderator-

This is why I did not want to go there. Things tend to get out of hand real fast. Of course I should have never stated my true feelings about Robert on video. Actually as I stated before, I was quit impressed with his creativity in the designing of his demo.

Besides, you know what they say about opinions...LOL!

Clyde....I do not know if I can improve on what Mr. Mills teaches? At the moment I am too busy learning!! I am sure you feel the same way with Mr. Tatum.

Take Care and Train Hard!