Who is in charge of JKD

[Kenpojujitsu3]

Well I guess you take what you can get. But exactly why are you asking for detailed concrete info on ridiculous BS? Just a thought and no I'm not trying to be a jerk. Just that that's a little contradictory.

Respectfully,
James

 

[Toasty]

Not asking for concrete info about the lawsuit - just concrete info that there EVEN IS a lawsuit - which no one can provide...

Ya big Jerk!! ( j/k LOL ).


see ya

Rob

 

[kroh]

The easy thing to do in regards to finding out who's in charge ( with Wild Bills's reference to him finding a teacher ) is to do what you are doing. Talk to people and find out what people are teaching. Start networking and find out who has the skills that you want.

Go to those people and petition to train with them ( not always easy, but usually possible). And then forget all the politics. The lawyers get paid to argue about that stuff...let them do it.


Let's not forget the whole point... no matter what we call it...we are all trying to learn how to knock some one's lights out. Whether you learn it with fist, foot, or a 45 calibre brick...Just hit the guy. When you deck some one "off the floor," they are not going to tell the police, "I tried to steel his wallet but I caught a nasty 'gua chuie' to the chin...<whispers to the cop> But i think he is mixing the Original Jun Fan with some of the concepts stuff...some one ought to tell him that stuff is from different organizations."

Find a good instructor ( reputation can only take you so far, you're going to need to train with them to guage their skill as both a kung fooligan and a teacher ) and just train.

Good JKD is out there...just like anything worth anything...it will be worth the effort when you find it.

Regards,
Walt

 

[Nanalo74]

Great thread. Everyone is making valid points. I'd like to weigh in on the topic if I may.

My instructor, Sifu Barry Cuda, recently had a conversation with someone in the know regarding the whole lawsuit thing. It's actually Shannon Lee, Bruce's daughter, who is spearheading all of this. She had Bruce Lee's name and likeness trademarked as well as the name Jeet Kune Do and the symbol (the yin yang with the arrows and the Chinese characters). Her lawyers issued a cease and desist order to Dan Inosanto barring him from using the name JKD and the symbol on any of his products (academy t-shirts and such) and his website. She's going after the first-generation students first, then she'll move on to the 2nd gen, like Vunak and Richardson. Even MA magazines like Inside Kung Fu won't publish articles on JKD because she hasn't given express written permission to anyone to do so. If you notice, anytime Bruce Lee or JKD are mentioned in an interview they put the little "TM" symbol after. So where does that leave the rest of us who have been training in the art and want to propogate it?

Well, when we heard about the whole mess we (Barry and I) were stuck at a crossroads. We had just launched our own website and were in the process of filming our instructional DVD series. We were also preparing to advertise in Inside Kung Fu. Barry has been studying JKD and FMA for nearly 20 years under Dan Inosanto and Paul Vunak (the lion's share of his training coming from the latter). So here we are ready to do this thing and we find out that we can't say JKD anymore. We could just say Kali, but what we do is not purely Kali, is it? There's Wing Chun in there, Silat, Jiu Jitsu, greco-roman, shootfighting, JKD, etc. Not only that, but we don't teach the way most JKDC teachers teach. We don't have a Jun Fan class on Monday, a Kali class on Wed, a Silat class on Fri, a Muay Thai class on Sat, etc. We teach the ranges and what works in each range. If it's trapping day, it's trapping day, Wing Chun, Kali, JKD, whatever works in that range.

So we decided to call our system "Filipino Kali Mixed Martial Arts" and run with that. After all, Barry and Vunak parted ways years ago and Barry wasn't about to ask for an apprenticeship from Dan after 20 years.

If Shannon Lee wants to control the use of her father's name and art, fine. It's her legacy, she has that right. She's not gonna stop me from teaching the effective street combat strategies and techniques that I know work. She's not gonna stop me from making a living. Her father just won't get the credit. And that is truly sad, because he deserves it.

Vic www.combatartsusa.com

 

[arnisador]

I'd like to hear more about Shannon Lee's actions--it seems a bit late to try to take back "Jeet Kune Do" as a reserved name, no? I wonder if people are just giving up because of teh cost of fighting a lawsuit.

 

[Flatlander]

I really don't see any point speculating or contributing to internet rumours until someone can provide some evidence of these legal issues, or at least a public statement by Shannon Lee. Let's please leave that alone until someone brings something definitive to bear on the discussion.

:asian:

 

[arnisador]

That's what I'm looking for--something substantive.

 

[guromkb]

Politics and semantics my friends. Unfortunately in the Martial Arts world these things continue to pop up. You saw it in the Kenpo world as soon as Mr. Parker passed away (may he rest in peace) and you see it in Wing Tsun after the Boztepe split from Leung Ting etc etc. I have left Pekititirsia Kali over politics...there are way to many chiefs in this world and to be honest with you it is ********. As far as JKD goes...oh well let her do what she wants, there is nothing in the name it's the skill that one posesses that matters. But it is sad that a one time great innovative concept has been dragged through the mud on more than one occasion, I'm sure Bruce Lee would be dissapointed to say the least. Just my rants!

 

[Toasty]

Well, it turns out there really is a lawsuit - as mentioned, spearheaded by Shannon Lee.
Amazing what money does to a person.

Apparently Guro Inosanto (who I would submit - does not (and has not) need to use the Lee name or JKD for a LONNNNNG time) has changed the spelling so that (for his students sake) he will be able to use "JKD".
I dont think you can trademark random letters...LOL.

Take a look at his site, the classes for JKD are now Jeet Kuen Do.

 

[arnisador]

Holy Cow, this is true!

See:
http://inosanto.com/wrapper.php?file=academy_schedule.htm

 

[Nanalo74]

Barry told me to go ahead and explain how we found out about all this.

As I mentioned earlier, we had just launched our website and were in the process of filming our DVDs. We had written a couple of articles and were purchasing ad space in Inside Kung Fu. Dave Cater, editor of IKF told us that he could not accept any articles about Jeet Kune Do.

Over breakfast in Las Vegas, Dave proceeded to explain to Barry the details of the lawsuit situation. He said that he has had to reject articles by several well known JKD instructors because he simply cannot publish anything about JKD.

So now these guys that have been teaching this art for 20 - 30 years have to figure out what they're gonna do. That's why we just came up with another name. After all, Bruce said not to fuss over it, and it is in essence a mixed martial art.

Vic www.combatartsusa.com

 

[arnisador]

That's why we just came up with another name. After all, Bruce said not to fuss over it

I love this attitude! that is indeed exactly what he said.

 

[Brother John]

Everybody who has ever been remotely connected to Bruce Lee has their own JKD organization. With Linda Lee sueing Inosanto how long will it be before no one can claim JKD instructorship without her organizations approval.

The instructor I train with was certified under the JKD nucleus group and is now training to get certified under Inosanto. I am not really concerned about rank at this point in my training but one of my goals is to become an instructor.

I think training in FMA is interesting but I am more interested learning FMA techniques and adding what is useful to OJKD/Jun Fan. It seems most JKD concepts instructors seek out multiple certifications in FMA and other arts and collect techniques and drills instead of boiling things down to what is usefull.

If I want to be a professional plumber clients will expect me to be certified through a professional 0rganization. If I want to be a profesional JKD instructor where should I look if Inosanto is out?

You bring up some good points.
Being "In Charge" of JKD is kind of a funny way to look at things I think. If you read Bruce's thoughts no what JKD IS in its essence, NO-ONE and Everyone is "In charge" of Jeet Kune Do, because it's a personal path of self expression.
Authority requires conformity, heterodoxy.
JKD rejects conformity outright, is the antithesis of heterodoxy..... yet there are still people scurrying to find out "Who's got the JKD authority??".

You mention the JKD people seeking out certification or promotion through the FMA's....that's true. That happens a LOT! Thing is, by revolving around FMA, MuiThai and Silat SO MUCH....the general JKD society ((((in general)))) ends up forming a kind of defacto heterodoxy. I think this is due, in large part, because people sought to grab onto the coat tails of JKD soon after Mr. Lee's passing, by turning and chaising after Mr. Inosanto, as though he held every key. While his views should be inspected as he was the closest to Lee, the fact that HIS expression of JKD is heavily colored by his involvement in the FMA. So now something that was originally intended to be "Formlessness-form" ....more or less has a heavily "FMA" biased center, and thus a more confined parameters on what JKD "IS".

interesting turn of events.

Your Brother
John

 

[James Kovacich]

Everybody who has ever been remotely connected to Bruce Lee has their own JKD organization. With Linda Lee sueing Inosanto how long will it be before no one can claim JKD instructorship without her organizations approval.

The instructor I train with was certified under the JKD nucleus group and is now training to get certified under Inosanto. I am not really concerned about rank at this point in my training but one of my goals is to become an instructor.

The nucleus had a membrship base that they "recognized" but they did not certify anyone. They did refer students to "nucleus instructors" for instruction and certification but as an organization did not certify anyone.

 

[bcbernam777]

Maybe everyone could just use the name Jeet Kune, which realistically should not have any trademark on it because "Jeet Kune" was the name of a drill taught to all of Yip Mans students in the early HK days

 

[arnisador]

I didn't know that! What's the drill?

 

[James Kovacich]

Maybe everyone could just use the name Jeet Kune, which realistically should not have any trademark on it because "Jeet Kune" was the name of a drill taught to all of Yip Mans students in the early HK days

I'm pretty sure it's also a name of a form in the Eagle Claw Gung Fu system. I always wondered if Bruce "borrowed" his arts name from them. Eagle Claw Grandmaster Lily Lau is here in the S.F. Bay Area and when Bruce was here he was young and ambitious, evolving and developing his martial art system.

 

[bcbernam777]

I didn't know that! What's the drill?

The drill is more of a concept in action so can take on a few different forms, the main form I have been taught by Sifu Fung is 2 oponants stand facing each other:

Person A) Starts to chain punch
Person B) intercepts those chain punches using Whu Sau and then follows that energy deflecting the incoming force of the punches whilst moving in closer and closer, as close as they can get to the oponants confinced area, they then move back outside of the confind area, the process is repeated until person "A" starts to burn on the shoulders the excercise is immediatly stop and the oponants swap roles.

The purpose fo the excercise for the person punching is to test their stance and to get their shoulder loose by utilissing the correct energy, the purpose for person B is to learn how to simply follow and then direct their oponants force, and how to use that to get the advantage, and intercept and move into the enemy's confined area

 

[arnisador]

OK, thanks! This was news to me.

 

[bcbernam777]

OK, thanks! This was news to me.

I dont think many people know about it, it was definitly taught to YM's earlier students, but I am not sure about his later students, maybe, I will ask Sifu tomorow for clarification. If you like I will post some pictures of the excercise???