BlackCatBonz
Master Black Belt
if it wasnt a martial art......couldnt anyone teach it?
The truth of JKD finally revealed!
- Thread starter FatDragon
- Start date
Tim McFatridge
White Belt
JeffJ, yes Bruce did actually authorize/certify people to teach. When he died he had certified three people to teach his art, the late James Lee, Taky Kimura and Dan Inosanto. James Lee son has the letter and everything that Bruce gave him as proof as does Taky and Dan. Do not get caught up in that though as that is the hated Politics that plagues JKD. I am in the Inosanto lineage as I am certified under Mike Keller who was under Dan Inosanto, I am also certified by Larry Hartsell as well. Either way in my honest opinion everyone who trained with Bruce has something to offer those seeking to train in JKD. I believe as Larry does that if everyone would just give credit as to where the stuff comes from then there would be no arguments in the Martial Arts. This is true in every art out there. If people would just give credit as to where they got the material they learned then everything would be alot nicer. I also believe as the late Ted Lucaylucay believed:
Ted Lucaylucay stated it best during his last interview.
"As far as the philosophy, Temujin [Gengis Khan] was the man who brought all the Mongolian tribes together. I remember talking about all the controversy earlier with all the different JKD factions now. They are all apart and yet they all come from the same family. Like the Mongolian tribes who were scattered living apart for so long and surviving, by stealing and robbing. Temujin came along and brings them all together and makes them into one great conquering nation. He was one of the great conquerors and developers. ThatĀs what we are trying to do since there are bad vibes, politics and controversy going on. We like to use the concept of Temujin to bring all the JKD people together (those who want to come together; and learn how to live, change, share, and grow, with more togetherness and harmony). If primitive Mongolian tribes can do something like that, here we are suppose to be more civilized, educated people or nation, it would seem a little more easier for us. Our direction right now is to bring the people who want to get along together, not to create controversy among each other, and not getting involved in the nasty politics. These are the ones that are most prone to doing and enjoying what we want to do and pushing towards the same goal. And that is to get along."
This entire article is posted on our website
www.jkdkali.com
Also guys do not listen to anything "Fat Dragon" has to say. He sounds very much like a person who is posting the same type of nonsense on other forums. His post here is almost word for word as on another forum, except on that forum he came out and named Dan as well as bashed Paul Vunak and Larry Hartsell and everyone associated with Dan. It is funny that this was Fat Dragons first post when all 4 threads he posted on in another forum have been locked down becuase of him and he has no where else to post so he comes here. His name on that other forum was Ashtanga05
Ted Lucaylucay stated it best during his last interview.
"As far as the philosophy, Temujin [Gengis Khan] was the man who brought all the Mongolian tribes together. I remember talking about all the controversy earlier with all the different JKD factions now. They are all apart and yet they all come from the same family. Like the Mongolian tribes who were scattered living apart for so long and surviving, by stealing and robbing. Temujin came along and brings them all together and makes them into one great conquering nation. He was one of the great conquerors and developers. ThatĀs what we are trying to do since there are bad vibes, politics and controversy going on. We like to use the concept of Temujin to bring all the JKD people together (those who want to come together; and learn how to live, change, share, and grow, with more togetherness and harmony). If primitive Mongolian tribes can do something like that, here we are suppose to be more civilized, educated people or nation, it would seem a little more easier for us. Our direction right now is to bring the people who want to get along together, not to create controversy among each other, and not getting involved in the nasty politics. These are the ones that are most prone to doing and enjoying what we want to do and pushing towards the same goal. And that is to get along."
This entire article is posted on our website
www.jkdkali.com
Also guys do not listen to anything "Fat Dragon" has to say. He sounds very much like a person who is posting the same type of nonsense on other forums. His post here is almost word for word as on another forum, except on that forum he came out and named Dan as well as bashed Paul Vunak and Larry Hartsell and everyone associated with Dan. It is funny that this was Fat Dragons first post when all 4 threads he posted on in another forum have been locked down becuase of him and he has no where else to post so he comes here. His name on that other forum was Ashtanga05
Fighting Spirit29
White Belt
HOLY FIRST POST! Welcome to martial talk. lol ... yeah it was something i wrote a while ago, Thanks for the welcome kroh 
Interesting post too...lol
Interesting post too...lol
Robert Lee
Brown Belt
The politics in JKd I do not think will go away. As long as one camp says you have to have linage through this group and another says you do not. As long as this goes on it be a seperation. I believe if you come from seattle oakland or La, Then you have a piece of the pie. Sure James is gone. Taki has not cerified anybody. But people who learned under James or Taki or Bruce at these schools Do have something that can be handed down. And now that the Bruce lee foundation is getting stronger things are changing even more. Will JKD go backwards because of copyrights. Will others do some name changing. Really If a person is not looking so much at making a dollar then you should not care about the different politics Just train or teach and train As long as You are a part of the 3 phases They all trace back to Bruce. Besides its not about JKD it is about the person learning to stand alone with what they have learned and were able to asorb to a point it worked for them. That part is theres There JKD as it may be called.
Good post. Unfortunately, theres a lot of talk about copyrighting and name changing, more about copyrighting though.Robert Lee said:
When I first started with Felix Jr. he told me he taught James Lee Gung Fu and so recently I reverted back to that same description when desribing my root. No matter what I do, I'm wrong.
I didn't understand it back then but the Macias's are simple and don't need attachments. Their mentality reminds me of an old video I saw that interviewed Angel Cabales who is recognized as opening the first Eskrima school in the USA. There was a tournament and demos and a lot of big names in eskrima came together and discussed get organized.
Heres the relation. The interviewer asked Angel if he was going to join the other Masters. Angel looked pissed and said. Me join them? They should join me!
He may have been pissed but he was content with just "being."
Flatlander
Grandmaster
Gee, that's a fantastic cut and paste job. I wonder who the original author was....Fighting Spirit29 said:J.k.d is not actually a hybrid art, <snip>
anyway i hope this was useful info
You know what. I know I've read it somewhere too.
Robert Lee
Brown Belt
You know when you look at JKD or any other art/style. It is truely up to each person to take what they have learned and adpt it to there needs. Or it is more or less useless for them. Every art has certion tools that a person can make useful. Some people can use more some less. Jkd has a modified out look to its training. It trains for nonclassical aproach getting to the core. No forms to remember and later break down to find the use. But like I said every person needs to become there own art. The style or way is just a path of learning some better some the same. But if you only look at the whole you miss out on yourself. You can not be your instructor or someone else. You are you. and what you learn becomes yours The better you train for performance the better you get. Thats what counts. The other aspect to most M/As is you train to learn more about fighting but you learn about living also part of the complete person. Fight when you must but live each day. When people train this or that and stay in the fish tank they see much less That fish tank is being the robot of your instructor or to the style. Not seeing that you were supossed to asorb what you could use That being yours. If instructing you give back so others can find there way. But what is yours is only yours it has no name It has a root if the root came from JKD then Jkd helped you along your own way. If it came from something else it too helped you. Most M/As have a large tool box of learning very few people can use all that is offered But many find there way And carry a smaller tool box But a useful amount. I guess what i am saying out side of all styles or ways Is you the person You make what you learn work or not Better to say I train in this art But I do what I do it has no name.
hasbulelias
White Belt
J.k.d is not actually a hybrid art, its a concept art.. anyway here is my take on it, enjoy the read
JEET KUNE DO.....
The art of Jeet Kune Do is simply to simplify. Jeet Kune Do avoids the superficial, penetrates the complex, goes to the heart of the problem and pinpoints the key factors. Empty your cup that it may be filled; become devoid to gain totality."
Many claims have been made over the years with regards to the proper definition of Bruce Lee's art of Jeet Kune Do. To some it is a process of "Change"; others see it as just a form of "modified" Wing Chun. Many recognize Jeet Kune Do to be simply a mixture of many different elements from numerous fighting styles, all combined to hopefully, at a later stage, form something meaningful to the individual concerned.
However ...
There is but ONE definition of Jeet Kune Do (As stated by the Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do Nucleus) ... "Jeet Kune Do is the complete body of technical (physical, scientific) and philosophical (mental, social and spiritual) knowledge that was studied and taught by Bruce Lee during his lifetime. It is concerned solely and exclusively with Bruce Lee's personal evolution and process of self-discovery through the Martial Art, as supported by written record (personal papers and library) and oral recollections (by those students who spent time with and/or studied under him)."
A distinction is made between this body of work (Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do), and the individual student's own personal process of self discovery through the martial art, as each student is free to use all, some or none of Bruce Lee's teachings to assist him. Jeet Kune Do accepts you as you are and is not about setting up restrictions or "Ways" of doing things - It seeks to be a source of inspiration and delight for those who possess an interest in Bruce Lee, and the martial viewpoints that he created.
Jeet Kune Do should be considered as the "Root" that was established by Bruce Lee, and NOT the ultimate goal of any practitioner, as students are expected to modify, add, and delete all aspects of Jeet Kune Do until they develop something that is uniquely their own (You the individual become, through this process of self-discovery, your own best teacher).
With this explanation still fresh in your mind I urge you to continue reading I hope my explanations and ideas on this wonderful art and philosophy prove to be helpful and enlightening.
The Art Of Jeet Kune do...
This is my small contribution and brief introduction to the art of Jeet Kune Do as I understand it. Although I wished had the opportunity to meet Sifu Bruce Lee I continue to feel indebted to him for the changes his art and Philosophy have brought in my life - changing me mentally, physically and spiritually. I am hoping that this short passage will make you want to explore all the aspects of this interesting art, and so use it as a means of self-discovery ... Developing a NEW way of life!!
To begin with, Jeet Kune Do (abbreviated JKD from now on) means "The way of the intercepting fist" and with this combat phrase in mind, it is basically concerned with the interception of an attack, a movement or even an intention by your opponent to launch an attack. It is one of the most popular and well debated (due to each person's understanding and application of JKD being different from the next) martial arts in existence today.
There are two schools of thought in JKD practice today ... Jun Fan/JKD practitioners, and the JKD Concepts practitioners. Jun Fan/JKD practitioners concentrate on Bruce Lee's original teachings, training and fighting methods, while the JKD Concepts practitioners use Bruce Lee's ideas and theories and explore and add techniques from many other martial arts to their training - Whatever form of JKD you choose to follow, it is really up to you to find your own truth in the art of Jeet Kune DO !!!
Well, you might ask ....
What are the main theories, principles and techniques involved ? What is the structure of this method ? What training methods are used ? How can you get involved in the learning process ? .... I will cover that in a little more detail shortly.
Although Wing Chun, a Southern form of Chinese martial art still remains the nucleus of the JKD system, western fencing with its non-telegraphic motions, footwork as well as attack and defense theory were also incorporated. Bruce Lee also liked the way that boxers fought and so body mechanics, footwork and all the evasive tactics were taken from boxing and also incorporated into his JKD system. Bruce Lee, after researching several methods of kicking, also came up with his own unique way of kicking - very fast and very direct !! It is therefore safe to say that JKD consists primarily (although he did use elements from 26 different systems) of Wing Chun, Fencing, boxing and Bruce's own unique way of kicking.
Learning the art of JKD is like putting together a large puzzle. Each period of Bruce Lee's life holds important pieces of the puzzle - The more you learn, the more complete your puzzle becomes. It also helps to learn as much about Wing Chun as possible so that you can better understand the roots of the system - You will find that the study of Wing Chun will really solidify your knowledge and understanding of JKD (It is after all the real foundation !!).
There are three major areas of concentration in JKD:
Simplicity
Directness and,
Non-classical attitude
Simplicity means doing only what is necessary to complete a task as quickly and efficiently as possible - This is by no means as easy as it sounds and requires a lot of thought and practice through continual drilling of all the basics.
Directness means to follow the shortest and safest possible route to an opponent (normally a straight line) with non-telegraphic motions and doing as much damage as possible. The principle of directness in JKD can be found in the individual's ability to use his longest weapon (usually his lead hand or leg) against the nearest target on his opponent's body.
Non-classical means that all the techniques are delivered in a practical manner, unlike the majority of "fancy" techniques that are used and taught in traditional martial arts.
The first thing that must be considered is the fighting stance (Bai-jong), or the on -guard stance which Bruce Lee believed must have your power side forward - In this position your most powerful weapons are closest to your target. This stance is highly mobile with good offensive and defensive capabilities ... Plus much much more!!
Mobility, more than anything else is highly stressed in JKD, as combat is a matter of movements ... Footwork is light, quick and economical. Good footwork is essential to close (bridge) the gap to your opponent and attack powerfully, or evade and counter an opponent's attack. The JKD fighter will use linear, lateral, angular and circular footwork patterns, so as to put himself in the best possible range.
There are three fighting ranges emphasized in JKD:
Long range
Medium range and,
Close range
Each of these three ranges must be practiced. The fighter must understand the tools applied in each range and how to use them effectively. Long range is known as the fighting measure, and is the most favorable position to maintain when you are not attacking. In this long range you are basically very "safe" and it is from here that you can test your opponent's reactions without being in too much danger of being hit. You can test your opponent's reactions by using feinting or probing attacks which appear to be real!!
Kicks, punches, trapping and grappling movements can all be used in the medium range. As a general rule, by the time your opponent is moving into the medium range you should have already intercepted him and countered his offense with an attack of your own.
Once we get into the close range, head butts, elbows and knees can now be used. This is generally where close quarter grappling occurs (chokes, strangles etc.) and is a very deadly range due to the serious nature of the natural body weapons that can be employed.
Physical blocking of an incoming blow is only used as a last resort by the JKD practitioner ... instead he uses the four corner parry which redirects the incoming force. The best defense in JKD is to attack!! The next preferred method of defense is the simultaneous attack and defense whereby you parry the opponent's attack while delivering (at the same time) an attack of your own to the open line. An even more effective form of defense is to fire a fast powerful attack of your own into the same line as the incoming attack, thereby deflecting the oncoming attack and landing successfully on your target - This form of interception is called the stop-hit; when using the foot for interception it is called a stop-kick. When you have honed your interception skills, damage is done immediately to the attacker, both mentally and physically.
The most important factor in JKD training is sensitivity training. Every offensive and defensive movement will have a certain type of energy and energy flow. Sensitivity drills that are used in JKD are referred to as Chi Sao or "Sticking hands" and use of this drill will enable the student to "sense" the opponent's energy quickly and subsequently trap and counter him immediately. Chi Gerk or "Sticking legs" develops the sensitivity in the legs for sweeps, deflections and counter kicks practitioners.
Another area of vital importance in JKD is Bruce Lee's five ways of attacking. Bruce Lee realized that there are essentially only five ways that you can attack an opponent and that every empty hand attack ever conceived will fall into one of these five categories.
One of the most useful pieces of equipment for the JKD practitioner is the Mook Jong or the wooden dummy (Refer to the last picture in my photo album) from the Wing Chun system of Chinese Kung Fu - This piece of equipment allows you to train alone when no partners are available. The wooden dummy consists of a head, trunk, two upper arms, a lower arm and a lower (sometimes metal) extension that represents the lead leg of an opponent ... All the offensive and defensive moves can be performed on the dummy. Striking the dummy and performing your defensive moves on it also conditions the arms and the legs for impact - This was one of Bruce Lee's favorite pieces of training equipment !!
As you can see Jeet Kune Do is a very well rounded and balanced martial art which has something special to offer everyone from a mental, physical and spiritual point of view. It is, and will become - If you let it ... "A NEW WAY OF LIFE".
Jeet Kune Do Fitness
Intense physical training is a must in JKD or any other external Martial Art for that matter!! Please excuse the brutality in what I am about to say, but the last thing that you want to happen to you is to lose your life due to not being prepared or not in a good enough shape to carry through with a confrontation.
Bruce Lee emphasized fitness over and over again with all his students - Cardiovascular, flexibility and strength training. Cardiovascular conditioning can be accomplished through running, cycling, rope skipping, running stairs, rowing, swimming, shadowboxing and/or footwork mobility drills to name but a few ...To just give you an idea of Bruce Lee's physical prowess, he would run four miles a day in 24 to 25 minutes, thereafter he would ride his stationary exercycle full speed - 35 to 40 miles per hour continuously for 45 minutes to an hour!!
Flexibility can be maintained by implementing a serious stretching routine of at least two twenty minute sessions per day.
Strength training can be accomplished through the use of isometrics, static contraction exercises, free weights, weight machines etc.
An important element that all JKD practitioners must experience is lots of good, hard sparring with protective equipment - This brings all the fitness aspects together, as well as conditioning your body for impact, developing self-confidence, mobility, timing, power, reflexes, range awareness and the endurance necessary to succeed in an all out confrontation.
anyway i hope this was useful info
I must admit, designating two camps for JKD is pretty weird, because under my instructor he teaches both Jun Fan JKD and teaches a combination of other martial arts, or conceptual JKD. The JKD debate is getting so sad. I think a lot of people were inspired by Bruce Lee. He endevoured to spread his art through Film and really his films have taken so many people in that we all want to be Bruce Lee, and so we all search for the "Holy Grail". Some of us think its in JKD, some of us think Dan Inosanto's got it, and some think its Wing Chun. Martially what we are missing is real footage of Bruce Lee sparring or fighting. There is a small clip I saw in the Warrior's Journey where Bruce is sparring with full gear on, and well, he was bloody fast. I could also see a very distinct form of fighting that resembled Fencing except using an effective Lead Jab and Side Kick, and some very fast straight blasts at close range(wing chun). Dan Inosanto also said in numerous interviews that not many people can utilise these weapons as the core of their fighting technique because normal human beings lack Bruce's Speed. These were Bruce's chosen and desirable weapons, although through his Jun Fan JKD curriculum it focuses on teaching all the weapons and an all rounded knowledge. And through Bruce's films, Enter the Dragon, Game of Death, we can see that Bruce emphasised an all rounded approach to Martial Art, including wrestling, sticks, judo etc... his knowledge was extensive and I believe he was trying to tell people to absorb all the arts and utilise them. Although there is a curriculum there should be no stagnation in learning. Although there are concepts you should have concepts that do not imprison. If you want to be like Bruce Lee go and trace all those steps he went through to reach where he was before he died. Once you've reached the amount of years that Bruce Lee would have died, ask yourself, "what the hell do I do now?". Thats the same question that Bruce would have asked himself. In the remaining years until 2006 Bruce would have seen the evolution of martial arts that included the rise of Brazilian Jujitsu and wrestling and the evolution of Muay Thai. I doubt that he would have stayed the way he was, and although he trained diligently to also assume that Bruce Lee was unbeatable is naive. Yes he was fast, yes he was strong, but how many times have we seen people fight and despite their attributes, their skill, their "unbeatable martial art" they still loose? I personally believe that there might not be ever be a perfect martial art and to chase this idea of being Bruce Lee because "he was the best" is naive and childlish. It was these ideas of liberation from traditions, from forms and from IGNORANCE, these were ideas mentionned by numerous thinkers before Bruce Lee, but Bruce was the one that applied it to Martial Arts. Bruce was the pioneer of the Enlightenment Era of Martial Art, we shouldnt forget that he did study Philosophy, and who can deny that he was a philosopher? Without the idea of using several martial arts to improve one's ability to defend oneself, MMA competitions, the UFC, and more importantly Total Combat/Self Defence would have never arisen. This is what the Martial Art world has to thank the Late Bruce Lee for. He was a stickler for efficiency and a bad loser, thus he never wanted to lose and pursued this road to perfection to the end. This was how he broke traditional barriers that still hold ardent Kata robots in their ignorance. If you have half a brain you would realise that being more adept both on the ground and standing up and with weapons would make u already more dangerous that someone who only knew one tradition. Its a logical progression to all roundedness in the martial arts since one tradition such as TKD just can't punch but hell can they kick, boxing cant kick but hell can they punch, wing chun is fast but hell they're missing sparring and cardio work (plus self-delusional "Im on the REAL road to being as good as Bruce Lee" bull). I think as people who are interested in Jeet Kune Do we can be proud of the fact that we are and should be the most open minded of all the martial artists. When it comes to combat we want to get the job done. If you look at the black belters in the martial arts world such as karate, TKD, etc...and they don't learn other martial arts because they "believe" they've found the Holy Grail, you have to feel sorry for them. They are not trained to look at their weaknesses. JKD serves to unite martial differences and be rid of one's own weaknesses, it's goal is to take what is useful. In this sense there is no other intructor I would seek than a JKD instructor because JKD instructors usually have such a wide range of experiences in different martial arts. Such an understanding means that one gets closer to the Holy Grail of martial art which isnt any system or method or curriculum, but the human mind and its physical expression. We have to run away from dogma and instead seek physical expression. It might come from a phillipino origin, a japanese origin, etc... but if it works, if it gets to the target and beats your opponent down, then you've utilised JKD not because you've by luck found the right technique, but because in one's martial career you've searched and searched for more ways to express the right technique according to the situation. So many instructors and individuals who always claim to have THE martial art makes me sick. Sometimes if you have the hunger, the drive, determination, and anger you can beat down a black belter or a "proficient" "JKD" proponent who still cling to their idea of combat. No System is ever going to save us. If as JKD practitioners we have sought to perfect the art of combat, every law enforcement or military combat division in the world would be seeking our ideas on combat. But as long as we stay in our dogmatic worlds and ignore the practicalities of combat we're just going to turn out like all the other dead traditions out there from karate to tkd to muay thai to any art that seeks to call itself a unified system (of thought). You cant JUST practice one art. If you JUST practice muay thai, you wont know how to deal with someone on the ground. And the end of the day we all have our preferred techniques in a fight, but the narrower your experience the narrower one's choice of preferred techniques. I have read some parts of that book "The Straight Lead" by Ted Wong or something, and although it shed's light on the original ideas of Bruce Lee, it does nothing to improve our lot. I mean the title itself is scary. Personally I think Bruce's martial philosophy was not to just base a fighting system on one technique. The straight Lead is scientifically efficient when we consider its foundations in wing chun and fencing. But is the straight lead alone going to win you your fight? Please say no or face a life of constantly getting beaten up. The book is reaching. Its digging up the past. Its another act in solidifying an idea of what JKD SHOULD be practically. Havent we got past this? Of course the straight Lead is important, but hell, so is the rear cross, so is the circling hook, so is the surprise takedown, so is the choke hold...is it really one special technique that we should be looking for or the ability to be fluid, to know all angles and strokes and be able to use them at the right time with the correct timing, the correct concentration and power. If we really wanted to kill someone it would be easy, try using a Gun, its not unJKD to use a gun if you need to. But is JKD just the art of killing someone? Go back to Bruce's thoughts that flowed out of the ideas of Krishnamurti, Zen Buddhism, Taoism etc...its more than that. Besides doing what he did his ideas in martial arts also included the search for himself, for enlightenment. If you're a thinker you'd know that JKD is not just the search for the perfect martial art and its not all that Bruce gave to the western world, he also gave a rich understanding he had of eastern traditions. Why is it that the peaceful ways of Taoism has paths to enlightenment via physical expression (martial art)?, How is it that Zen Buddhism concerns itself with bodily awareness as a path to seeking Buddhahood? These were the concerns of Bruce Lee and of so many monks and seekers of the past and of present times. I personally believe that we cannot separate JKD from these philosophical ideas that brought it about, ideas that are not 30 years old but centuries old. We get so strung up on finding the perfect combat system that we forget its true origins. Bruce was clever enough to know that true "JKD to kill someone" is just using the most effective weapon available...why not buy a gun guys? But that was not what he taught, and most importantly not the path he was seeking. It is no coincidence that Bruce was considered top of the martial art world and the fact that he could move so well and convincingly on screen. Both are separate disciplines that took hard work and acute awareness on his behalf. He was a perfectionist and I believe he sought that in all aspects of his life. Watch Longstreet and the interviews he did, this was a deep man. To say that a dead system called JKD was all that he left behind is really tarnishing a great mind. What we're looking for is not to dig up Bruce Lee, but to find the Bruce Lee of today, someone who had that same spirit, that same drive and genius, an even greater genius in fact! Let's go in this direction rather than back. This is what true martial artist's are doing. Dan Inosanto has got the right idea, he constantly searches for new ways, new movements and ideas for combat. A good instructor is one that is learning until he dies. Bruce did this and he was not the founder of such an idea. Its just common sense.
I liked most of Teri Tom's book. I didn't like the political BS at the end. I didn't agree with everything she taught. You have to remember that Bruce Lee taught differently to different people, Teri seems to think that her way is THE WAY. Which it isn't. Its Ted Wong's way, which is fine, but there are many Original Bruce Lee Students, and not all of them teach, or were taught by Bruce the same way.
I think part of the problem is that people want a neat box of techinques to say okay this is JKD, that's it, practice it and you will be the ultimate martial artist! That's just not the case. There isn't one answer, one solution, one art, or one techinque that is THE answer. JKD is an art, it has set techniques, and I think its important to know and understand what Bruce taught, yet NOT be bound or limited by it. Most importantly JKD is about the evolution of the person who practices it.
I think part of the problem is that people want a neat box of techinques to say okay this is JKD, that's it, practice it and you will be the ultimate martial artist! That's just not the case. There isn't one answer, one solution, one art, or one techinque that is THE answer. JKD is an art, it has set techniques, and I think its important to know and understand what Bruce taught, yet NOT be bound or limited by it. Most importantly JKD is about the evolution of the person who practices it.
matt.m
Senior Master
Not trying to go on a tangent but to give a similiarity or parallel to what I perceive to go on in this thread. Someone help guide me if I am wrong.
Now as I understand there is a question of authenticity or rather a debate. It is rather amazing that the hapkido world is at odds politically as well. At least with JKD there is a world wide acceptance of who founded the art and what its roots are.
Imagine the politics of: One camp says that Choi and Ueshiba learn Daito Ryu Aiki Jiujitsu from the same person. Then you hear from another camp "We certainly know Ueshiba, no record of Choi though."
Wait it gets better: In the hapkido community there is in fighting of "Choi, founded hapkido......the other side splits hairs and says nope it is Ji, Han Jae.
I don't even want to talk about lineage....Oh boy would that start a mutiny and fight to the death at an all hapkido convention.
It is amazing to me in the respect that I have only seen Bruce on Film. I have never read his Tao of Jeet Kune Do, only read snippets of his remarks in publication.
I will use my understanding of "No way as way" for what I interpet it. As I understand, like tae kwon do, karate, hapkido, judo, aikido, escrima, etc. there is indeed a cirriculum. However, the student will take what is most useful to them after the curriculum is learned and use those mostly as their favorite techniques.
Also, during the process of problem solving of any kind there is no set or perscribed way to accomplish a task every time, you must find what is useful for the time and task at hand.
Again, I am trying to gain a better perspective as to the debate.
Thank you
Now as I understand there is a question of authenticity or rather a debate. It is rather amazing that the hapkido world is at odds politically as well. At least with JKD there is a world wide acceptance of who founded the art and what its roots are.
Imagine the politics of: One camp says that Choi and Ueshiba learn Daito Ryu Aiki Jiujitsu from the same person. Then you hear from another camp "We certainly know Ueshiba, no record of Choi though."
Wait it gets better: In the hapkido community there is in fighting of "Choi, founded hapkido......the other side splits hairs and says nope it is Ji, Han Jae.
I don't even want to talk about lineage....Oh boy would that start a mutiny and fight to the death at an all hapkido convention.
It is amazing to me in the respect that I have only seen Bruce on Film. I have never read his Tao of Jeet Kune Do, only read snippets of his remarks in publication.
I will use my understanding of "No way as way" for what I interpet it. As I understand, like tae kwon do, karate, hapkido, judo, aikido, escrima, etc. there is indeed a cirriculum. However, the student will take what is most useful to them after the curriculum is learned and use those mostly as their favorite techniques.
Also, during the process of problem solving of any kind there is no set or perscribed way to accomplish a task every time, you must find what is useful for the time and task at hand.
Again, I am trying to gain a better perspective as to the debate.
Thank you
Wow, as far as I can see, this was the only post FatDragon, or whatever the hell his name is, made, and it went on for a few pages with no further input from the original poster.
Looks like a bunch of folks played into FatBasta...I meant...FatDragon's hands.
Cthulhu
Looks like a bunch of folks played into FatBasta...I meant...FatDragon's hands.
Cthulhu
Flatlander
Grandmaster
You're close, but not quite.
The purpose of the curriculum and training methods is to promote quality fighting attributes. The curriculum used by one may not be the same as that used by another. Essentially, this is the core of the 'debate', as it were. There is no consistency in curriculum absolutely from one instructor to another, particularly in the 'concepts' lineages, though at the core most are predicated on the same general ideas. The 'nucleus' people believe there should be consistency. Thus, the 'debate' goes: What did Bruce really want?
It's all quite silly, really.
Anyway, regarding the 'no way as a way' essentially means that there is no one way to get things done, as you and I will tend to do things as they are most natural to each of us respectively. If that's the case, then for us to each be as efficient as possible, we'll need to allow for individual expression. For that to happen, we'll each need to personalize our training and focus. For that to happen, there will need to be genuine contemplation and consideration, rather than simple obedience. For us to be honest with ourselves, there will need to be dilligent personal evaluation of our skillset. There is no "one way" context to realize the aforementioned ideas.
Here's the way I've always viewed it.
If someone says, yes, I practice Jeet Kune Do, then that must mean they pratice some form of what Bruce Lee taught before he died. It doesn't matter if its stuff from the Seattle ( I know it wasn't called JKD then), Oakland (wasn't even called JKD then really), or L.A. years, or some combination of those. It doesn't mean that's the only art you should practice. (I personally believe strongly in cross training) But to say that you practice JKD and have no understanding of what Bruce Lee actually taught, is wrong.
The whole concepts thing gets misquoted and blow out of proportion all the time. It is possible to take the principles and concepts from JKD and apply them to other arts. If you're really into an art, and you learn it, use what JKD teaches us to pare it down and make it more combatively effective. You can't effectively do this though if you don't know and practice the principles, concepts, teachings and techinques themselves.
If someone says, yes, I practice Jeet Kune Do, then that must mean they pratice some form of what Bruce Lee taught before he died. It doesn't matter if its stuff from the Seattle ( I know it wasn't called JKD then), Oakland (wasn't even called JKD then really), or L.A. years, or some combination of those. It doesn't mean that's the only art you should practice. (I personally believe strongly in cross training) But to say that you practice JKD and have no understanding of what Bruce Lee actually taught, is wrong.
The whole concepts thing gets misquoted and blow out of proportion all the time. It is possible to take the principles and concepts from JKD and apply them to other arts. If you're really into an art, and you learn it, use what JKD teaches us to pare it down and make it more combatively effective. You can't effectively do this though if you don't know and practice the principles, concepts, teachings and techinques themselves.
Robert Lee
Brown Belt
If you look at the begining of JKd it was in Oakland after Bruce had fought for hir right to teach who ever he wanted. Bjut felt he should have been more effcetive. Bruce in a short time changed The Jun fan over to a more direct aproach So in a way JKD was born And later developed in the LA phase. And would have evolved more had Bruce lived. Call it JKD or Jun Fan it still is what Bruce devloped. Each chapter is different. But Bruce worked on with JAMES and TAKI as he progressed. He also trusted Both very much Sure Dan helped set up a teach program where JKD could be taught in a lesson plan. But James also had a plan. No body was to take JKD as the truth but use it to find there truth That was theres. Its like any other art if you look beyond learning and start doing. The better you get at doing You have all your freedom. SO JKD is a tool for training after it has no name but your own because you are who you are.
edwardcloud
White Belt
i had read a bit of Bruce Lee and his thesis in my library before with some basic drawing from him. i think that he had simplified kung fu by striking at the person before they can even make an effective attack.
To be more precise, i think that he had formulated JKD based on his experience and what he learn for many years. It is a pity that he died early or that the art may have go through a further refinery in his later years.
To be more precise, i think that he had formulated JKD based on his experience and what he learn for many years. It is a pity that he died early or that the art may have go through a further refinery in his later years.
I dont think Jeet Kune Do should even exist...or at least not have been given a name but i guess thats imossible. Its a concept to live your martial art by and someone else trying to teach you THEIR own personal martial arts is...lacking of your OWN content. why put someone elses practices to use if they only work for them? let alone study them religiously..its so hard to find a true martial artist around here. in AUS anyway.....why does there have to be a turth to "JKD" that needs to be revealed. If you wish to reveal the truth of it then study yourself
