who has met Master Choi Jung Hwa?

[jks9199]

Wow...

I understand learning about and respecting the culture... but some of this is sounding nutty! A senior grandmaster who has nothing better to do at a social function than look for social sleights and find ways to try to trip people from another culture up? I really hope he has better things to do at a social function where he is the guest of honor than that!

I guess I'm very fortunate that the only title my chief instructor goes by is the doctorate he earned... and I've shared many meals with him without having to learn complicated etiquette.

I think StuartA put it great: Be a human being, and treat everyone as if they are human beings!

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I think in the end and my experience is that if you treat people well like you want to be treated then they will reciprocate.

(and yes I have met The General as well as his son though it was a long time ago)

 

[jim777]

Exactly.... This guy puts his pants on the same way you do. .

Indeed, both legs at once while doing a flying 360!

j/k of course lol, no disrespect meant :asian:

 

[Marginal]

I hear ya.

Hows about the etiquette of we are all equal human beings and lets just be civil and polite to each other, rather than bow & scrape! :boing2:

I'm all for that. IMO, etiquette should facilitate interaction with others rather than stifle it.

 

[chrispillertkd]

Wow...

I understand learning about and respecting the culture... but some of this is sounding nutty! A senior grandmaster who has nothing better to do at a social function than look for social sleights and find ways to try to trip people from another culture up? I really hope he has better things to do at a social function where he is the guest of honor than that!

Out of curiosity, what in any of the posts above made you think GM Choi - or any Grand Master, for that matter - has "nothing better to do ... than look for social sleights and find ways to try to trip people fom another culture up"? I certainly didn't get that impression from GM Choi when I had dinner with him (and it was a smaller affair, not a huge banquet of 200 people). Nor did I get that impression when I have had the opportunity todine with Master Wheatley, Master Rai, or any other rather senior ITF Master.

I guess I'm very fortunate that the only title my chief instructor goes by is the doctorate he earned... and I've shared many meals with him without having to learn complicated etiquette.

It really isn't all that complicated. It's just not what many people deal with on a daily basis. There's a difference.

I think StuartA put it great: Be a human being, and treat everyone as if they are human beings!

I agree. And that's what the etiquette we've been discussing does. It alolows you to treat another person as a human being while at the same time recognizing their seniority to you in either age or standing. What most westerns appear to do in my humble opinion when they start talking about making sure we treat everyone as a human being is really mean that we treat everyone the same. There's a difference.

Pax,

Chris

 

[jks9199]

Out of curiosity, what in any of the posts above made you think GM Choi - or any Grand Master, for that matter - has "nothing better to do ... than look for social sleights and find ways to try to trip people fom another culture up"? I certainly didn't get that impression from GM Choi when I had dinner with him (and it was a smaller affair, not a huge banquet of 200 people). Nor did I get that impression when I have had the opportunity todine with Master Wheatley, Master Rai, or any other rather senior ITF Master.

Here, where you wrote:

When toasting the rim of your glass goes lower than the rim of your senior's glass. GM Choi will on occasion toast someone and, as your glasses come together, serruptitiously lower his glass. A little test to see if you're paying attention Make sure you are and lower your glass acorrdingly.

Maybe I got the wrong impression. And I'll openly admit that I'm not a fan of some of the "we must be more <insert nationality> than the <repeat nationality>" that you see in some martial arts schools. People who ape traditions that they don't understand, and come up with bizarre interpretations of them to justify it.

I'm not at all suggesting being rude... but when etiquette interferes with communication and leads to people going hungry or being cold (he may be warm at the head table in a large banquet room, but you may be at the back of the room, in a draft... but must take your coat off because he did and how is the most junior person at the table supposed to drink? from the same post...), then it's no longer serving it's purpose of providing oil for human interaction.

I believe that it's possible to show respect and appropriate deference to those who merit it -- whether through age, seniority in training or rank, or status -- without having to remember lengthy lists of "do this, don't do that..." For example -- the head table and/or guest of honor should be served first in a formal setting. In less formal situations, generally, one is expected to wait until all are served to start eating. Not hard, not complex...

What most westerns appear to do in my humble opinion when they start talking about making sure we treat everyone as a human being is really mean that we treat everyone the same. There's a difference.

Pax,

Chris

There's nothing wrong with recognizing differences in social status or standing, wherever they originate (age, rank, etc). Nor is there anything wrong with recognizing and respecting another culture. But, as I said, when they interfere with communication and the purpose of the function -- then the "rules" of courtesy aren't serving the purpose.

 

[midnight star]

don't you know.. You can't do that.. Thats the biggest rule of them all.. no sneaking in snacks so you don't feel so hungry whilst waiting for the moment a korean master feels like eating something. to do so shows a complete lack of integrity, courtesy and self control and it will be 2,000 press-ups for you if you are caught and 1,500 that you must give your self if not caught due the shame

:lfao:

Stuart

lmao!!!!

Then i shall just eat a very large lunch!!!

 

[midnight star]

I hear ya.

Hows about the etiquette of we are all equal human beings and lets just be civil and polite to each other, rather than bow & scrape! :boing2:

Amen to that!

 

[chrispillertkd]

Here, where you wrote:


Maybe I got the wrong impression. And I'll openly admit that I'm not a fan of some of the "we must be more <insert nationality> than the <repeat nationality>" that you see in some martial arts schools. People who ape traditions that they don't understand, and come up with bizarre interpretations of them to justify it.

So, you don't like it when a senior will, on occassion, see if someone is paying attention, is that it? Because that's what I said. He does it (by no means all the time) to see if people are paying attention. Martial artists are supposed to be aware of what is going on around them. I rememeber being told by my instructor something along those lines when I was a white belt. Heck, he had his own little tests during class to see if students were paying attention.

In the case of GM Choi it has nothing to do with being more Korean than the Koreans (and there are a few things about Korean culture that don't thrill me, frankly). Besides, there are things that one does in Taekwon-Do etiquette that the average Korean would find odd, too.

I'm not at all suggesting being rude... but when etiquette interferes with communication and leads to people going hungry or being cold (he may be warm at the head table in a large banquet room, but you may be at the back of the room, in a draft... but must take your coat off because he did and how is the most junior person at the table supposed to drink? from the same post...), then it's no longer serving it's purpose of providing oil for human interaction.

To each their own, I suppose.

To be honest, it seems like you are looking for things to nit pick about. If being a little cool in A/C is the worst thing you can think of after you've just spent about 6 hours of hard training I'm a bit perplexed. And no one is suggesting you "go hungry" - given that you're going to go home or to a hotel, get a shower and get refreshed before dinner usually with ample time in between makes the suggestion a bit far fetched. But again, part of being a martial artist is being prepared and being aware of what's going on around you. Maybe this hypothetical person could observe that other people are eating their meals and do likewise. Or even grab a small snack before leaving for dinner if they're really famished. Just a suggestion.

If you have a problem with try to be respectful to seniors by demonstrating certain aspects of etiquette then simply refrain from doing so.

I believe that it's possible to show respect and appropriate deference to those who merit it -- whether through age, seniority in training or rank, or status

You know we are talking about meeting a Grand Master at a formal banquet in this thread, right?

-- without having to remember lengthy lists of "do this, don't do that..." For example -- the head table and/or guest of honor should be served first in a formal setting. In less formal situations, generally, one is expected to wait until all are served to start eating. Not hard, not complex...

If you want to limit your good manners to allowing the head of the table to eat first but not engage in any other etiquette you're free to do so. The OP asked for advice on how to behave when meeting a vey high ranking Martial Artist. That is what I and other posters offered.

There's nothing wrong with recognizing differences in social status or standing, wherever they originate (age, rank, etc). Nor is there anything wrong with recognizing and respecting another culture. But, as I said, when they interfere with communication and the purpose of the function -- then the "rules" of courtesy aren't serving the purpose.

And since none of the things that I or anyone else has said interferes with communication and the purpose of the function (i.e. a banquet held in honor of the person giving the seminar) I am really at a loss about some of the responses you've offered.

Let me close by saying this, the debt a student owes a teacher is unpayable. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't try to offer some compensation. Offering your respect for the person by using good etiquette is a good down payment, so to speak.

Pax,

Chris

 

[midnight star]

woop woop!

iv managed to get the day off work so i CAN do the seminar!!artyon: