Which one is right?

[Kung Fu Wang]

Which one is right? Your thought?

1. Taiji is 6 harmonies, 8 gates, 5 steps.
2. Taiji is how to land your fist on your opponent's face.

Am I the only person on this planet who is tired of those abstract fancy theory?

 

[Holmejr]

Haha, being FMA I have no clue to what you’re talking about!!

Someone attacks and you have 3-4 seconds to end altercation…

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Haha, being FMA I have no clue to what you’re talking about!!

Someone attacks and you have 3-4 seconds to end altercation…

I'm glad that I'm not alone on this.

The difference between a scholar and a MA person is:

- When a scholar answers a 10 questions exam, if he has issue with question 3, he can skip it and works on question 4. After he has finished question 10, he then comes back to work on question 3.
- When your opponent stabs his dagger toward your chest, you only have 1/4 second to respond correctly. If you fail, you will never have the 2nd chance.

 

[Holmejr]

Right.
Test takers know the wording of subsequent questions will often the answer the skipped question.
MAs, especially in law enforcement that are in real life altercations simply don’t have that luxury. There is no going back.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Right.
Test takers know the wording of subsequent questions will often the answer the skipped question.
MAs, especially in law enforcement that are in real life altercations simply don’t have that luxury. There is no going back.

That mean MA needs to be trained on the body and not just trained in the mind.

When a Taiji guy says that he trains 进退顾盼定:

- forward,
- backward,
- look left,
- look right,
- stay in center.

It's very difficult for me to understand what kind of training he is talking about.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Do you agree or disagree with the following statement?

- Form is bodywork, not a collection of techniques. It doesn't have to be "martial" in nature.

 

[Teapot]

I think the third one is correct in that we should be tired of all this:

Am I the only person on this planet who is tired of those abstract fancy theory?

Aren't these statements just very reductionist?

Someone could say that Boxing is just 4 punches: jab, cross, hook, and uppercut.

Is that what Boxing is? What about footwork, head movement, guarding, clinching, and the rules they oblige by and the nuances?

If Taijiquan is just 6 harmonies, 8 gates, 5 steps, then where do leg sweeps fit in? Where does Qinna fit in? If you pierce someone's throat with your fingertips, which of the 8 Jin does that fall under? If you stomp the side of someone's knee while throwing them, where does that fall under?

I can endlessly create a list of stuff found in someone's Taijiquan that doesn't neatly belong to those things. And if someone does argue that it belongs in one of those things, I highly doubt they get mentioned in writing such as the "classics".

I suppose one could argue that everything that doesn't neatly belong in those terms is simply not important, but I think that's code for "we don't have that stuff because we lost it all."

When people say Taijiquan is [insert blank] and is only that set of things, my reaction is just: "That's it? That's all you have?"

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

where do leg sweeps fit in? Where does Qinna fit in? If you pierce someone's throat with your fingertips, which of the 8 Jin does that fall under? If you stomp the side of someone's knee while throwing them, where does that fall under?

Taiji people don't want to talk about "leg skill" (such as foot sweep) and "grabbing". They treat both as low-level skills. What make them to feel this way? I have no idea.

 

[Teapot]

Taiji people don't want to talk about "leg skill" (such as foot sweep) and "grabbing". They treat both as low-level skills. What make them to feel this way? I have no idea.

I think many of them simply do not have those skill sets. If it was truly low-level, it would mean they could do it because it's "easy". But many can't do it, so they need a coping mechanism to justify why they can't do it.

I've seen many Taiji folks ask online if Qinna is even useful or realistic. To me, that's proof that they can't do it; otherwise, they wouldn't even be asking the question. If they can't do something, how can it be low-level? If something is low-level, that means they should be able to showcase it since it's so easy.

 

[isshinryuronin]

If Taijiquan is just 6 harmonies, 8 gates, 5 steps, then where do leg sweeps fit in? Where does Qinna fit in? If you pierce someone's throat with your fingertips, which of the 8 Jin does that fall under? If you stomp the side of someone's knee while throwing them, where does that fall under?

I can endlessly create a list of stuff found in someone's Taijiquan that doesn't neatly belong to those things.

As a karate guy who studied its history, I came across the 8 gates and 5 steps. I normally would not have taken a second look at them, except I also studied seisan kata, a popular one found across many styles of karate and one of the oldest kata known. It can still be found in China. There have been several theories of the significance of its name, said to mean "13." Thirteen sequences? thirteen techniques? etc. It struck me that 8 + 5 = 13! I'm in the process of delving into how the 8 gate techniques and 5 steps of body movement may specifically relate to this kata. The challenge is since it is so old, it has been reworked many times and there are several versions of it.

I've seen many Taiji folks ask online if Qinna is even useful or realistic.

IMO it is very effective. The problem is it's not easy to master except for the most basic techniques. Furthermore, one just doesn't just apply a qin'na technique. One must first enter, position and immobilize. Striking is often required to accomplish this. There are a whole lot of other skills that are prerequisite to applying the joint locks. I think few people have put in the time and depth of study needed to be adept at this art.

 

[skribs]

I can't be the only person who thought of this scene:

Or the old story of the six blind men and the elephant. To summarize it: six blind men want to know what an elephant is like, so they each touch the elephant. Only they each touch a different part, so they each come to a different conclusion.

• The one who touched the ear thinks it's like a blanket.
• The one who touched the side think's it's like a wall.
• The one who touched the leg think's it's like a tree.
• The one who touched the trunk think's it's like a snake.
• The one who touched the tusk think's it's like a spear.
• The one who touched the tail think's it's like a rope.

Each one has correctly described one part of the elephant, but they're missing a piece of the puzzle. They could argue about it and remain ignorant, or they could understand there's different parts and work together to come up with a better picture.

Martial arts is an incredibly complex topic. There's a lot of different styles, a lot of different objectives, and a lot of different ways of thinking about them. Most of them are correct, given the right context.

 

[marvin8]

Which one is right? Your thought?

1. Taiji is 6 harmonies, 8 gates, 5 steps.
2. Taiji is how to land your fist on your opponent's face.

Both. Taiji has principles, concepts, skills and techniques. The potential opponents' energies and directions are in every fight. Different MA styles may handle these (defense/attack) in different ways.

Am I the only person on this planet who is tired of those abstract fancy theory?

It's more helpful to teach it in a simpler way, where one can train and use them against resistant opponents. I believe combat sports at the highest levels does that more in depth by it's nature.