Which kick is a better stopping weapon.

[FearlessFreep]

Me: I would debate that : ) Speed wise they seem about the same. Actually I think the sidekick launches a little faster because you don't have to lift the foot as high before you drive it outward

Bro John: That's assuming the stance you are in is already "Side-facing". Many styles don't begin that way, but employ a more "front-facing" stance. Like the art I practice...it begins MUCH more "Front-facing" than TKD.

Actually. I'm not assuming that. As I had mentioned, we practice sidekicks from walking stance and forward extended stance which are both stances with squared shoulders and hips (in fact, the Taeguek form 'Sa-Jang' has two sidekicks in sequence, the first one from a forward extended stance, so to throw them together you have to be able to throw them from a forward position, not a side position).

Both kicks involve lifting the foot to thigh level and then thrusting out. Done properly, the foot travels in a constant arc, up and then out, without a pause at the top. The hip and foot turning motion gives the sidekick forward moving power, but it happens in conjunction with the foot motion so it really doesn't add any time.

The reason I mentioned that the sidekick may be faster was because of thinking that the push kick involves a higher lift so it may take more time to get the foot up before you send it out, but that's probably variable depending on how high you lift

The front push kick is mechanically simpler so for many people it's probably easier to do and as a result, faster, but I think mechanically it works out about the same.

 

[Eric Daniel]

Personally, I think the hands are more important to set up a kick. Leading with a kick to bridge the distance or initiate the engagement is just too obvious and broadcasts from a mile away. Engaging with the hands first can bring his guard and his attention higher and bring you in closer to a position where you can actually land a decisive kick that could end the fight.

That is one perspective, I think that can be but why do you think leading with a kick to bridge the distance is too obvious to broadcast from a mile away? I would not kick a person from a mile away anyways (except in training) because sure, it's telegraphed. I would wait for them to come to me before I kick them.
Now engaging with the hands first to bring his guard up and his attention higher so you can kick him with a decisive kick that could end the fight can also be for kicking and than punching, If you kick him and bring his guard down you can land a punch to the face and it will be lights out.

 

[Flying Crane]

That is one perspective, I think that can be but why do you think leading with a kick to bridge the distance is too obvious to broadcast from a mile away? I would not kick a person from a mile away anyways (except in training) because sure, it's telegraphed. I would wait for them to come to me before I kick them.
Now engaging with the hands first to bring his guard up and his attention higher so you can kick him with a decisive kick that could end the fight can also be for kicking and than punching, If you kick him and bring his guard down you can land a punch to the face and it will be lights out.

Good points. I guess I just feel that when his attention is focused on my hands, which are probably higher up, it is easier to slam in a low kick to the knees or shin or thigh, that he may never see coming. I am also thinking that the use of the hands may be to trap his hands and make it difficult for him to redirect them. If I am just throwing punches, he may be able to block and still use his hands to guard my kick. But if I use my hands to get more commitment from his hands, then he could be vulnerable on the low side. Using a kick to bring the guard down low can certainly work, but you may still be at too great a distance to land the punch decisively, before the hands are back in a position where they can be used defensively. This could all just be a matter of personal preference, 'cause if what you have stated is working for you, then you've got something.

 

[FearlessFreep]

Interesting side thought to that is how does what art you do influence what range and what techniques you open with.

For example, I do Taekwondo so my natural fighting/comfort range is fairly far out. As a result, hands to distract from feet would not be too effective against me because I would be rying to keep you at long kicking range before you got in close enough to use hands. However, using kicks to distract/occupy my attention in order to cloes distance for hand strikes would probably be much more effective against me because I naturally want to fight at a longer distance and I practice more against that distance.

So I think a few kick-feints followed by a rush in if I bit on the feint would work against me better than punches trying to hide an incoming kick. That's just because of the art I practice though. I wonder how much art effects what techniques your are susceptble to?

 

[arnisador]

Don't most kicks set up for your hands to follow the kick?

Well, not as much with a back kick as with a front kick, I'd say. I think the front kick gives better position for follow-up punches than does the side kick.

 

[Flying Crane]

Interesting side thought to that is how does what art you do influence what range and what techniques you open with.

For example, I do Taekwondo so my natural fighting/comfort range is fairly far out. As a result, hands to distract from feet would not be too effective against me because I would be rying to keep you at long kicking range before you got in close enough to use hands. However, using kicks to distract/occupy my attention in order to cloes distance for hand strikes would probably be much more effective against me because I naturally want to fight at a longer distance and I practice more against that distance.

So I think a few kick-feints followed by a rush in if I bit on the feint would work against me better than punches trying to hide an incoming kick. That's just because of the art I practice though. I wonder how much art effects what techniques your are susceptble to?

But wouldn't you be used to dealing with the kicks, so if I opened with kicks and tried to use them to set up the hands, maybe I would not get past the kicking part because you know how to deal with them? It would be sort of like if I am not as strong a kicker, but I am trying to beat you at your own game.

I do agree, however, the art you have studied will definitely influence what techniques you use to open and engage.

 

[FearlessFreep]

Well, not as much with a back kick as with a front kick, I'd say. I think the front kick gives better position for follow-up punches than does the side kick

I'm going to say it probably depends on how you do it/practice it/train it. As I mentioned before, we have to be able to do kicks (including roundhouse, sidekicks and back kicks) both starting from a walking stance and returning to a walking stance, so a sidekick *can* be done that returns you to a neutral position to allow for forward strikes

Here's two successive movements in a Taekwondo for which is a sidekick/punch combination followed by a elbow strike.

http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/eng/Tkskill/pomsae.asp?div=3&pomsae=205&serial=183
http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/eng/Tkskill/pomsae.asp?div=3&pomsae=205&serial=184

Inferred from this is that you have to come out of the sidekick forward into the elbow strike.

 

[FearlessFreep]

But wouldn't you be used to dealing with the kicks, so if I opened with kicks and tried to use them to set up the hands, maybe I would not get past the kicking part because you know how to deal with them?

Hey, good point