When the Opponent Covers Up.

[chain punch]

Apologies for pressing the matter but does the reaction of the opponent determine whether the technique works? Also would you need to be consistent in it's use or is a one off OK?

Further apologies for not understanding you point about defence, could give more detail and thus clarity. I is a bit stupid.

Finally in a recent post, somebody alluded that if you are learning good wing chun then you will climb the mountain. I am a firm believer in having an effective teacher impart their knowledge over assumed quality of style lineage. Popularity and heritage does not equal and determine skill, although marketing lineage-philes would have us believe different.

Perhaps a new line of discussion should be why would you do 'x' technique when an opponent covers up.

For me, if an opponent covers up as the original illustration, he is protecting and waiting to launch his next attack. Of course the illustration in some ways is a moot point as it shows stillness and in the chaos of combat very little is still.

If we want a serious debate on this we need to consider several factors;

Environmental (are you in class, the woods, the pub, the kebab house. Is it raining, dark, icy)

Relationship (random attacker, workmate, family member, sparring partner, pro fight)

Context (mugging, sparring, match fight, protecting another)

His mates (age, numbers, some of the above)

Your motives and his (teach him a lesson, defend yourself, beat him up)

Your morals and his (would you employ dirty tactics - biting, spitting, weapons, stamping when downed, take him down and put him to sleep, KO him, teach him a lesson)

Your health (warmed up, injuries, clothing you are wearing, how long can you last)

Fear, aggression and pain and your ability to deal with it.

This is not an exhaustive list and there is much lap over of each one. Should we be training just techniques? Or should we be also training the above factors and consider them? How many 'masters' consider these or even discuss these with their student, us. Or do they have blind faith in 'x' technique?

Rant over, for now.

Paul

 

[Vajramusti]

Apologies for pressing the matter but does the reaction of the opponent determine whether the technique works?
(Part of the equation)
Also would you need to be consistent in it's use or is a one off OK?
(Timing is also part of the equation- not mechanical techniques)

Further apologies for not understanding you point about defence, could give more detail and thus clarity. I is a bit stupid.
(Defence includes controlling the line of the attack if there is one keeping the center protected)
Popularity and heritage does not equal and determine skill, although marketing lineage-philes would have us believe different.
(maybe, maybe not- depends..))

Perhaps a new line of discussion should be why would you do 'x' technique when an opponent covers up.
((Upto others. Me- ? Find an opening for attack))

For me, if an opponent covers up as the original illustration, he is protecting and waiting to launch his next attack.
((Sure)
Of course the illustration in some ways is a moot point as it shows stillness and in the chaos of combat very little is still.
(sure- ok)

If we want a serious debate on this we need to consider several factors;
(I seek no debate. Clear discussion- better than debate))




This is not an exhaustive list and there is much lap over of each one. Should we be training just techniques? Or should we be also training the above factors and consider them? How many 'masters' consider these or even discuss these with their student, us. Or do they have blind faith in 'x' technique?
( I discuss the above including heightened awareness- I dont know what other sifus do in closed teachings. I speak only for myself))

Rant over, for now.
(Ok!!))

 

[Domino]

So I get angry when a 'ridiculous' claim gets posted which will mislead beginners into believing that wing chun is a simple matter

While I appreciate you opinion totally, thats the thing I didn't agree with in your post, the one thing I learnt from WC and BJJ to try not to do in any situation.

 

[KamonGuy2]

While I appreciate you opinion totally, thats the thing I didn't agree with in your post, the one thing I learnt from WC and BJJ to try not to do in any situation.

There is a difference between getting angry generally (in life etc) and losing control of your emotions in a fight or in training. In training I am very professional, although I am human.
On a forum or when I see others mislead by comments, I do get angry, and Im not ashamed of that

I concede the point to Joy (and apologise) as he made an eloquent counter argument. I read his post as ‘my one technique beat a good boxer’ as opposed to ‘the technique I experiment with worked in a particular instance’, which is a major difference

I also would like to point out that Im not a major fan of MMA (ie mixing a bit of everything). I am a huge supporter of finding a good base art, such as karate, kung fu, judo etc, and then exploring one or two other arts once you have grounded yourself in your core martial art

Im not with the guys who go training in BJJ for two months intensively and then go off to do striking for another two months etc. I think they miss something, and that strategy really is more for the cage or sport

Those who ground themselves in wing chun and then explore something like BJJ or boxing later on will really add something to their skills in total.

 

[Domino]

Maybe why the sarcasm comes out from time to time, something Im trying to get rid of myself thats all and no nothing to be ashamed of, just an observation

I admire the fact you combine the BJJ with wing chun, something I aim to do.