When recreational drugs are legal...

[K-man]

Unless, of course, it is a legally manufactured potion (such as Aility, Adderall, Ambirn, Antabuse, Aircept, Anafranil, Benperiodol, BuSpar, Benzodiazephiens, Celexa, Clorzaril, Concerta, Cymbalta, Depakote, Effexor, Elavil, Eskalith, Gabitril, Geodon, Haldol, Imipramine, INderal, Keeprya, Klonopin, ad nauseum on through to Xanax, Zoloft, Zyprexa, Zelepron, Zolpidem and Zopiclone) that a pharmaceutical company can make money off of, right?

Ever look at the list of adverse effects on some of these?

Let's take Xanax, for example.

According to Wikipedia:

"Possible side effects include:

• Disinhibition[SUP][35][/SUP]

• Change in libido[SUP][36][/SUP]

• Jaundice (very rare)[SUP][37][/SUP]

• Hallucinations (rare)[SUP][38][/SUP]

• Dry mouth (infrequent)[SUP][39][/SUP]

• Ataxia, slurred speech[SUP][40][/SUP]

• Suicidal ideation (rare)[SUP][41][/SUP][SUP][30][/SUP]

• Urinary retention (infrequent)[SUP][42][/SUP]

• Skin rash, respiratory depression, constipation[SUP][43][/SUP][SUP][44][/SUP]

• Anterograde amnesia[SUP][45][/SUP] and concentration problems

• Drowsiness, dizziness, lightheadedness, fatigue, unsteadiness and impaired coordination, vertigo[SUP][43][/SUP][SUP][44][/SUP]

[edit]Paradoxical reactions

Although unusual, the following paradoxical reactions have been shown to occur:

• Aggression[SUP][46][/SUP]

• Rage, hostility[SUP][35][/SUP]

• Twitches and tremor[SUP][47][/SUP]

• Mania, agitation, hyperactivity and restlessness[SUP][48][/SUP][SUP][49][/SUP][SUP][50][/SUP]

with alprazolam can lead to profound sedating effects."



(Hey but lets jail people for marijuana because pot is a DRUG (read, "illegal drug", because the above are the REAL drugs in the sense that they are manufactured from chemicals in a laboratory) and HEROIN is a drug so they are EQUAL IN BADNESS!!!

Really, Ballen? You really believe that? If somebody was able to influence politicians to list mother's milk as a drug, would it then be just as bad as heroin and pot? )

Now let's look at the facts about Xanax. Firstly it is A benzodiazepine. It is a 'legal' (on prescription) drug which is subject to abuse. It should be only prescribed short term because it is addictive. Every drug has side effects. The secret is to balance the potential benefits against the potential risks.

So let's look at two scenarios.

I need to go across the country quickly because a close family member is only likely to live another 24 hours. I need to fly but I have a phobia about flying. The doctor prescribes me a small supply of Xanax and off I go. I don't worry about the flying any more, I probably will feel a bit sleepy and I will get to see my dying relative. Short term, it's highly unlikely I will experience any other side effects.

Scenario 2.

Xanax is now legally available to anyone from the local supermarket. In fact they have a special price so you buy two packets and get one free. Nothing like a bit of free stuff to get you properly hooked! So now I can be off my face as much as I like and when I'm feeling ok I can drive my car, yeah? I can have a tolerance to benzos, like alcohol, but the difference is that Xanax stays in the system a bit longer. About 2 to 3 days normally (which is a lot better than Valium which can stick around for a week or more). So I feel ok but my reaction time is shot. Can't wait to be on the road with everyone able to legally use any drug they like, when they like.

Now you will probably say Xanax is different to pot but if we are going to legalise one, we legalise all, or how do you differentiate? :asian:

 

[Tgace]

And marijuana is being approved in a growing number of states for its medicinal properties, not as a recreational drug.

Lol! Right...excuse me if I don't buy into the "it would only be for medical reason's" farce.

It may be the convenient rationalization to get a state to legalize but in practice its a "tell the doc you get headaches" sham to get your buzz on.

I respect your "its like alcohol...treat it like alcohol" argument more than I do the medical marijuana smokescreen. Its at least an honest argument.



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[ballen0351]

Pot is not lke heroin. Heroin is highly addictive

So is Marijuana, tobacco, Beer, cocaine, and over the counter nasal spray

Before you come back with No its not I can stop smoking any time I want heres a place for you to get some help:
http://marijuana-anonymous.org/

 

[ballen0351]

Here is one story of many on the Marijuana anonymous page:

My Last 60 Days of Using What was it like? Well, what can I say? Using, using, and more using! It's difficult to remember exact dates, but I can give you a rough estimate of where I was, my frame of mind, and my daily routine.
I had moved back to my place of true memory, North Hollywood, two months before. The week I moved up here (sometime in early September) I was immediately offered a job with an organization I had been affiliated with for the last thirteen years. It was a very laid-back job that I figured I could do “under the influence.” The job was a step up from what I had done in the past—it was actually a position of authority!—and it scared me. I promised myself I would limit my usage to weekends, although I hadn't been able to do that for years prior to this “wanna be” commitment. I wasn't even able to keep my promise for one day.
The job seemed perfect for a drug user. I was my own boss for the first four hours of the day and my employer trusted me. This gave me the opportunity to smoke at will. The second four hours of the day consisted of planning and supervising programs for junior high school-aged children. The kids knew me as a slightly amusing person with red eyes the whole time they were involved with this organization (there is an unusually high return rate for these children every year). Anyway, my opportunities for using drugs were endless.
My routine was this: I would wake up at about 9 in the morning and mosey on in to my kitchen, where I would reach for one of my bongs, fill it with ice-water, and then make it back to my bedroom dresser where my dope was stashed. And this was all before I could get out my first yawn of the morning!
For the last five years or so, that first high of the day had always been the best one. I would pack two fat loads in an extra-large bowl. Each bowl provided about five huge “cough-master” hits. After about ten or twelve lungs full, I'd either stumble into the shower, or over to work (depending on how stoned I had managed to get).
I'd start jonesing at about 10:30. Luckily, I was the transportation coordinator and could take a van out whenever I wanted. I'd speed off to “do errands” (get high) and return just in time to watch the kids for three hours. I never had any activities planned. I'd just go on auto-pilot, hoping that I could remember what I'd been told to do in the past. I normally “maintained” around the kids for most or all of the three hours, only jonesing when troubles arose (they did every day).
After work there were no holds barred. My friends and I would smoke until it was all gone, or we had no more money, or we passed out (that never happened). Then I would come home around 1:00 a.m. and smoke the last of my daily stash before hitting the sack.
In the middle of November, I lost my job because of a drug test. My excessive tardiness and mysterious days off for “illness” probably also had something to do with it. By then I was paranoid, delusional, and suicidal. I was stealing to buy drugs. I should mention that though pot was always the mainstay of my drug habit, I also used a slew of other drugs (notably crack, speed, and alcohol) to keep me going.
The weekends were when I played Russian roulette. Whether it was the people, the drugs, the scams, or the situations I got myself into…my life was in danger. My pot habit alone cost me $40-60 a day. I had borrowed, stolen, sold, pawned, and weaseled as much money as I possibly could on a daily, weekly, monthly, and yearly basis. ANYTHING FOR DRUGS!!!
My mind was lost, and after only 23 days of sobriety, it still is. I have no confidence, little faith, a heartful of resentment, and a fistful of rage. I fear death but still I embrace it. I seek love, but only end up sabotaging my relationships. Will it ever end? My heart is heavy. I am a child with no inkling about how to live. I come to these rooms as a last resort. I can only live second to second. I'm quite sure I have another life-long binge in me, but I truly doubt I have another recovery in me.
AUTHOR'S NOTE: I now have a little over 4 months of sobriety. Things are beginning to look up for me, slowly but surely. In the distance, a new life awaits. It's pretty blurry right now, but it is becoming slightly clearer and more focused with each passing day. I know that it will take a lot of work and determination to get there, but at least now I have the willingness to keep trying.
---Gannon B.
April, 1996

 

[zDom]

Lol! Right...excuse me if I don't buy into the "it would only be for medical reason's" farce.

It may be the convenient rationalization to get a state to legalize but in practice its a "tell the doc you get headaches" sham to get your buzz on.

I respect your "its like alcohol...treat it like alcohol" argument more than I do the medical marijuana smokescreen. Its at least an honest argument.



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I agree that the medical marijuana thing has become silly.

I walked up and down Venice Beach past a dozen shops advertising that for $40 or so they would examine you and write a prescription.

(On the other hand, I saw nobody smoking... anywhere.)

But I have spoken with plenty of people who have real conditions and genuinely find it relieves their pain, helps with nausea/.



I also agree that Xanax probably wouldn't be as bad if it were used as a short-term aid.

But there seem to be plenty of people who take a daily dose and have for very long periods of time.

 

[zDom]

Here is one story of many on the Marijuana anonymous page:

My Last 60 Days of Using What was it like?
---Gannon B.

April, 1996

Yep, this person definitely had a problem.

If he/she stopped cold turkey I bet he/she had a heck of mental meltdown dealing with his psychological withdrawals.

Good thing his/her addictive personality latched on to pot instead of prescription medications, heroin, cocaine, meth or PCP ... or booze. That level of addiction and abuse could have killed him or her with physical withdrawal symptoms.

He or she was ingesting an incredible amount of marijuana (even compared to some of the big potheads I knew back in the day). The same sort of behavior applied even to alcohol could have been fatal.

I'm glad he/she found help.

 

[Steve]

I agree that the medical marijuana thing has become silly.

I walked up and down Venice Beach past a dozen shops advertising that for $40 or so they would examine you and write a prescription.

(On the other hand, I saw nobody smoking... anywhere.)

But I have spoken with plenty of people who have real conditions and genuinely find it relieves their pain, helps with nausea/.



I also agree that Xanax probably wouldn't be as bad if it were used as a short-term aid.

But there seem to be plenty of people who take a daily dose and have for very long periods of time.

It's important to distinguish between the opportunistic people offering a venue for casual use of marijuana, and the actual, legitimate health benefits of cannabis for some people.

Marijuana can reduce nausea and loss of appetite for people who are undergoing chemotherapy and can actually counteract many of the side effects of the drugs used to fight cancer. It has also been shown to slow or stop the growth of certain types of cancer.

It's also helpful as an anti-anxiety/antidepressant. In lieu of xanax, prozac or other drugs that have a laundry list of side effects, many people see marked improvement just from cannabis.

Marijuana is proven to be beneficial for people who have glaucoma, actually reducing the amount of pressure in their eyes and slowing, or in some cases stopping, the progression of the disease.

It's also good for chronic pain and muscle spasms. This is where the 'bad back' thing comes in.

And before people start trotting out examples where it doesn't work, no drugs work. One of the side effects of every anti-depressant on the market today is suicidal thoughts. Many of us here have thrown out our backs. I have a herniated disc and when it gets inflamed, it triggers muscle spasms in my lower back and in the piriformis muscle, which just clenches down on my sciatic nerve. The sciatica is typically so bad that I get burning down to my knee and numbness from there to the ankle. I would LOVE to have the option of cannabis over the highly addictive, mind altering opiates I'm prescribed.

To sum up. Are there a lot of people taking advantage of medical marijuana legality to gain access to a recreational drug? Sure. Does that mean cannabis has no legitimate medicinal value? Not one bit. Apples to apples with drugs commonly prescribed for the same conditions, cannabis often has milder side effects and fewer adverse reactions, and is for some people more effective.

 

[Tez3]

The man who invented 'legal highs' http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...e-drugs-lord-whos-strictly-legal-7939583.html

 

[K-man]

It's important to distinguish between the opportunistic people offering a venue for casual use of marijuana, and the actual, legitimate health benefits of cannabis for some people.

Marijuana can reduce nausea and loss of appetite for people who are undergoing chemotherapy and can actually counteract many of the side effects of the drugs used to fight cancer. It has also been shown to slow or stop the growth of certain types of cancer.

It's also helpful as an anti-anxiety/antidepressant. In lieu of xanax, prozac or other drugs that have a laundry list of side effects, many people see marked improvement just from cannabis.

Marijuana is proven to be beneficial for people who have glaucoma, actually reducing the amount of pressure in their eyes and slowing, or in some cases stopping, the progression of the disease.

It's also good for chronic pain and muscle spasms. This is where the 'bad back' thing comes in.

And before people start trotting out examples where it doesn't work, no drugs work. One of the side effects of every anti-depressant on the market today is suicidal thoughts. Many of us here have thrown out our backs. I have a herniated disc and when it gets inflamed, it triggers muscle spasms in my lower back and in the piriformis muscle, which just clenches down on my sciatic nerve. The sciatica is typically so bad that I get burning down to my knee and numbness from there to the ankle. I would LOVE to have the option of cannabis over the highly addictive, mind altering opiates I'm prescribed.

To sum up. Are there a lot of people taking advantage of medical marijuana legality to gain access to a recreational drug? Sure. Does that mean cannabis has no legitimate medicinal value? Not one bit. Apples to apples with drugs commonly prescribed for the same conditions, cannabis often has milder side effects and fewer adverse reactions, and is for some people more effective.

Stretching the truth to breaking point.

Cancer trials using THC were conducted in mice but not humans.

Although a medical substitute of THC, known as Marinol, has been used as an appetite stimulant for cancer patients and other similar treatments, few studies have shown that THC might have anti-tumor activity.

Continue reading at NowPublic.com: THC (marijuana) helps cure cancer says Harvard study | NowPublic News Coverage http://www.nowpublic.com/thc_marijuana_helps_cure_cancer_says_harvard_study#ixzz20Y5QwgRy

Advocates of medicinal marijuana cite evidence that hemp products can lower intraocular pressure (IOP) in people with glaucoma. However, these products are less effective than medicines prescribed by an eye doctor.
The high dose of marijuana necessary to produce a clinically relevant effect on IOP in the short term requires constant inhalation, as much as every three hours.
The number of significant side effects generated by long-term oral use of marijuana or long-term inhalation of marijuana smoke make marijuana a poor choice in the treatment of glaucoma, a chronic disease requiring proven and effective treatment.

[h=3]Abstract[/h]The plant Cannabis sativa has a long history of medical use in the treatment of pain and spasms, the promotion of sleep, and the suppression of nausea and vomiting. However, in the early 70s cannabis was classified in the Narcotic Acts in countries all over the world as having no therapeutic benefit; therefore, it cannot be prescribed by physicians or dispensed by pharmacists. In the light of this contradictory situation an increasing number of patients practices a self-prescription with cannabis products for relieving a variety of symptoms. An anonymous standardized survey of the medical use of cannabis and cannabis products of patients in Germany, Austria and Switzerland was conducted by the Association for Cannabis as Medicine (Cologne, Germany). During about one year 170 subjects participated in this survey; questionnaires of 128 patients could be included into the evaluation. 68% of these participants were males, 32% females, with a total mean age of 37.5 (+/- 9.6) years. The most frequently mentioned indications for medicinal cannabis use were depression (12.0%), multiple sclerosis (10.8%), HIV-infection (9.0%), migraine (6.6%), asthma (6.0%), back pain (5.4%), hepatitis C (4. 8%), sleeping disorders (4.8%), epilepsy (3.6%), spasticity (3.6%), headache (3.6%), alcoholism (3.0%), glaucoma (3.0%), nausea (3.0%), disk prolapse (2.4%), and spinal cord injury (2.4%). The majority of patients used natural cannabis products such as marihuana, hashish and an alcoholic tincture; in just 5 cases dronabinol (Marinol) was taken by prescription. About half of the 128 participants of the survey (52.4%) had used cannabis as a recreational drug before the onset of their illness. To date 14.3% took cannabis orally, 49.2% by inhalation and in 36.5% of cases both application modes were used. 72.2% of the patients stated the symptoms of their illness to have 'much improved' after cannabis ingestion, 23.4% stated to have 'slightly improved', 4.8% experienced 'no change' and 1.6% described that their symptoms got 'worse'. Being asked for the satisfaction with their therapeutic use of cannabis 60.8% stated to be 'very satisfied', 24.0% 'satisfied', 11.2% 'partly satisfied' and 4.0% were 'not satisfied'. 70.8% experienced no side effects, 26.4% described 'moderate' and 3.3% 'strong' side effects. 84.1% of patients have not felt any need for dose escalation during the last 3 months, 11.0% had to increase their cannabis dose 'moderately' and 4.8% 'strongly' in order to maintain the therapeutic effects. Thus, this survey demonstrates a successful use of cannabis products for the treatment of a multitude of various illnesses and symptoms. This use was usually accompanied only by slight and in general acceptable side effects. Because the patient group responding to this survey is presumably highly selected, no conclusions can be drawn about the quantity of wanted and unwanted effects of the medicinal use of the hemp plant for particular indications.
Copyright 1999 S. Karger GmbH, Freiburg

Marijuana may have health benefits but it has not been demonstrated to be better than what is already available and there is little scientific research to back your claims.

When you talk of side effects, everyone will have side effects if they use cannabis for pain or spasm. Less than 5% will have side effects with conventional medication. Any drug for anything that had the side effects of marijuana would never even get to clinical trials.

And, as for the 'highly addictive, mind altering opiates', that is also not true unless you are on high doses regularly, in which case it can be appropriately managed. 'Mind altering' at normal dose is not really the case either.

If you want to have illicit drugs legalised fine, but don't use pseudo science to justify it. The thread started out proposing that all illicit drugs be given open slather and using legalising of marijuana as the lever to get the other things on the market is rubbish. :asian:

 

[Steve]

Stretching the truth to breaking point.

Cancer trials using THC were conducted in mice but not humans.

Show me where I stretched the truth. Cancer trials using THC were conducted in mice but not humans... and?

I said, "Marijuana can reduce nausea and loss of appetite for people who are undergoing chemotherapy and can actually counteract many of the side effects of the drugs used to fight cancer. It has also been shown to slow or stop the growth of certain types of cancer." Which part isn't true or is stretching the truth? Sounds to me like you're the one stretching.

Marijuana may have health benefits but it has not been demonstrated to be better than what is already available and there is little scientific research to back your claims.

And yet, for many people, it is a viable alternative. Once again, you're not contradicting anything I've posted. It does reduce nausea for many people. It does reduce muscle spasms for many people. It does everything I posted.

When you talk of side effects, everyone will have side effects if they use cannabis for pain or spasm. Less than 5% will have side effects with conventional medication. Any drug for anything that had the side effects of marijuana would never even get to clinical trials.

Are you seriously, honestly suggesting that Marijuana has more severe side effects than Oxicontin? WHAT?

And, as for the 'highly addictive, mind altering opiates', that is also not true unless you are on high doses regularly, in which case it can be appropriately managed. 'Mind altering' at normal dose is not really the case either.

Dude, I take 2 vicodin and I can't drive. Percocet, morphine or oxicontin all make me nauseous to the point of throwing up and send me right round the bend. I can't believe that you would suggest that any of these opiate based painkillers have fewer side effects than marijuana. That's funny.

 

[Buka]

My lifelong buddy is battling cancer. While our state does not have a medical marijuana program, his doctor suggested he use it to help with the chemo. Three of us, life long friends who grew up in the sixties, are now in our sixties. We spent many a year on the dojo together, and two of us were cops together (now retired).

All three of us share the same birthday month. My buddy has invited us to what will probably be his last birthday. I'm bringing the eggplant parmigiana, he's providing the desert (he's a retired chef) our other friend is grilling sea bass. We're going to watch a movie double feature, Woodstock, and Doctor Strangelove. We're going to partake in some big fat doobies. (I haven't done that in decades.) Maybe it will be a journey into the abyss and we will all suffer from the darkness of melancholy and reefer madness, maybe we'll laugh, fart and eat too much. Maybe it will be a fun social experiment.

I can't fricken wait.

 

[K-man]

Show me where I stretched the truth. Cancer trials using THC were conducted in mice but not humans... and?

I said, "Marijuana can reduce nausea and loss of appetite for people who are undergoing chemotherapy and can actually counteract many of the side effects of the drugs used to fight cancer. It has also been shown to slow or stop the growth of certain types of cancer." Which part isn't true or is stretching the truth? Sounds to me like you're the one stretching. And yet, for many people, it is a viable alternative. Once again, you're not contradicting anything I've posted. It does reduce nausea for many people. It does reduce muscle spasms for many people. It does everything I posted. Are you seriously, honestly suggesting that Marijuana has more severe side effects than Oxicontin? WHAT? Dude, I take 2 vicodin and I can't drive. Percocet, morphine or oxicontin all make me nauseous to the point of throwing up and send me right round the bend. I can't believe that you would suggest that any of these opiate based painkillers have fewer side effects than marijuana. That's funny.

"It has also been shown to slow or stop the growth of certain types of cancer." I would have thought that was stretching the truth.

Most of what you have written is anecdotal. Show me the clinical trials that back your claims.

WRT OxyContin. If you are taking two OxyContin you should not be driving. The normal dose is one tablet. Two tablets would only be prescribed for the worst pain. As marijuana has destroyed the life of one of my relations and caused enormous problems in the lives of two of my children, you are never going to convince me that marijuana is a harmless drug.

Then you say I am stretching the truth? I just quoted medical research. :asian:

 

[Steve]

"It has also been shown to slow or stop the growth of certain types of cancer." I would have thought that was stretching the truth.

Most of what you have written is anecdotal. Show me the clinical trials that back your claims.

WRT OxyContin. If you are taking two OxyContin you should not be driving. The normal dose is one tablet. Two tablets would only be prescribed for the worst pain. As marijuana has destroyed the life of one of my relations and caused enormous problems in the lives of two of my children, you are never going to convince me that marijuana is a harmless drug.

Then you say I am stretching the truth? I just quoted medical research. :asian:

You said I was scratching when I mentioned mind altering opiate based painkillers. Would you say they are not mind altering? If that's so, why shouldn't I drive when taking them?


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[Tgace]

You said I was scratching when I mentioned mind altering opiate based painkillers. Would you say they are not mind altering? If that's so, why shouldn't I drive when taking them?


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Prescription opiate abuse typically occurs when people try to defeat the pills time release properties...crushing, chewing, injecting, etc. When taken as prescribed an Oxy usually won't make you "fly". Its the bodies acclimation to the drug that demands more for the same effect that is the start of trouble.

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[Steve]

Prescription opiate abuse typically occurs when people try to defeat the pills time release properties...crushing, chewing, injecting, etc. When taken as prescribed an Oxy usually won't make you "fly". Its the bodies acclimation to the drug that demands more for the same effect that is the start of trouble.

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Are you guys kidding? I took OxyContin one time and it was an awful experience. Morphine made me so nauseous I threw up. Vicodin is milder, but still makes me very loopy. Having chronic back issues, I've been prescribed a lot of opiate based pain killers. It's awesome how you guys are telling me I'm wrong about the drugs I've personally ingested as prescribed.


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[Tgace]

Are you guys kidding? I took OxyContin one time and it was an awful experience. Morphine made me so nauseous I threw up. Vicodin is milder, but still makes me very loopy. Having chronic back issues, I've been prescribed a lot of opiate based pain killers. It's awesome how you guys are telling me I'm wrong about the drugs I've personally ingested as prescribed.


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Eh...Ive been on oxy, hydro...never even made me sleepy....must have been on higher mg doses than me. The ibuprofen in hydrocodone is known to cause stomach troubles. Not saying that continued use is not without it's hazards...it obviously is. But taking them for your root canal isn't usually gonna make you "stoned" or an addict.

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[Tgace]

People with chronic pain..like yourself..need to be exceedingly careful. Pain management with meds basically IS doctor controlled addiction and subsequent tapering off. You will build a tolerance and addiction to opiates over time. Its like medical math.

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[Steve]

All great advice, and I can assure you that addiction won't be an issue. I hate the way they make me feel, and take them only when necessary.

The point remains that opiates will get you "stoned." they are, in fact, an extremely popular way to get stoned. . You shouldn't drive when you take them and they are addictive. You're attempting to paint drugs that represent a significant threat as harmless. I am completely lost. You're a cop and you seem to be arguing that marijuana is a worse danger than opiates. I don't Get it.


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[Tgace]

Where have I ever argued weed as being "dangerous"? Ive explicitly said on this thread that I would loose no sleep if it were legal tomorrow. All I said is I don't agree with putting yet another recreational drug on the market and am personally against legalizing it. Same with spice, bath salts, extasy,etc. Settle for a beer, some coffee and a cigarette like the rest of us. Alcohol is trouble enough as it is...I personally don't want another drug added to the mix. I think legalization will just cause more headaches than benefits and create more users.

If I'm outvoted and its made legal so be it....

Opiod meds are controlled substances. I catch you with them outside a bottle with your name on it and I'm charging you with a misdemeanor or a felony. If your dosage or individual reaction to them effects your driving and I will DUI you.

The argument is that Oxy/hydro are prescribed medications and when taken as directed fairly safe and...taken as prescribed...not typically intoxicating depending on dosage and frequently of consumption (chronic cases excepted). Their recreational use is unlawful and not the substances original intent. In order to "get stoned" ... I'm not talking about possible side effect drowsiness, or reactions to alcohol or other meds. I mean stumbling, on the nod stoned...on most diverted meds you need to crush, chew, snort, or shoot them...or take a large dose.

The problem will these pills is the ease with which doctors prescribe them...and their lack of monitoring patients on them IMO. That and an antiquated prescription system that lets people doctor shop for pills.

Weeds purpose is strictly for a buzz...all "medical use" smokescreen aside. So one is a controlled substance with a potential for abuse and the other is a recreational drug intentionally consumed to get an intoxicating effect. That's all I'm saying...I don't know what other peoples points are.

A brief fact...most US Oxy is now unpopular with abusers....the new "op" blend defeats crushing and chewing attempts, which defeat the pills time release formulation and deliver all the opiod at once.

Opana is the new pill of choice...or Canadian Oxy which doesn't have the "op" additive.

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[K-man]

Are you guys kidding? I took OxyContin one time and it was an awful experience. Morphine made me so nauseous I threw up. Vicodin is milder, but still makes me very loopy. Having chronic back issues, I've been prescribed a lot of opiate based pain killers. It's awesome how you guys are telling me I'm wrong about the drugs I've personally ingested as prescribed.

No one is telling you you are wrong about the drugs you have taken. Different people have different responses but when any of those drugs are dispensed you would normally be given a fair amount of information on potential problems, including drowsiness. OxyContin is one of the stronger analgesics available and until a tolerance develops there is a high likelihood that you will have a great deal of sedation. No one should be driving or operating machinery until they can tolerate the side effects. Vicodin we don't have in Australia but I assume it has properties more like codeine. It does have less sedation than OxyContin but is not as strong in its analgesia.

Driving is advised against with many medications, not because they are mind altering but because they cause sedation. Driving when tired is as bad or worse than driving at the alcohol limits.

A study by researchers in Australia showed that being awake for 18 hours produced an impairment equal to a blood alcohol concentration (BAC) of .05, and .10 after 24 hours; .08 is considered legally drunk.
Other research indicates commercial drivers and people with undiagnosed sleep disorders such as sleep apnea and acute insomnia are also at greater risk for fall asleep crashes.

Which brings us back to marijuana. Are you saying that marijuana has the same or greater pain relieving properties without making you 'loopy'?