When It Rains It Pours

[Disco]

I guess it has something to do with the Korean Arts in general. Just reviewed a posting on www.ladytkd.com or net about Kim Un-yong, President of the Kukkiwon, Now V.P. of the IOC, was head of the KTA up till 2001, that he is under investigation for embezzlement. Also tied into the investigation is Koo Chun-seo KTA chairman on charges of bribery. For more indepth info go to the ladytkd site.

 

[MountainSage]

I can't find the exact post that I made, I think, last year that the WTF was going to self-destruct. There a number of TKDer's that infered I had lost my mind. Now both the WTF and USTU are going to be history. Further more, a post on another forum state the Korean government has taken possession of the Kukkiwon headquarters building and the homes of both the current and past presidents of KTA and Kukkiwon. I can't say I'm sorry to see them go. Now maybe TKD can get back to a martial art, rather than, a martial sport.

Mountainsage

 

[Disco]

Any chance on finding that post on the Kukkiwon? I wasen't aware that it was under investigation, just a few of the people connected with it. What in the world is going on with the KMA. Hapkido is in quicksand, The KTA and the Kukkiwon are in the toilet. WTF is most likely gonna bite some kind of bullet. The ITF is totally divided and is associated with North Korea. Are all the other korean arts undergoing problems also? I wish I wasen't so old. I'd find something else to start over in. Dosen't seem like your able to trust anything connected to the korean arts anymore.

 

[Shiatsu]

What sucks is I am about half way through the ITF curriculum, then I moved here, and I am now about half way through WTF. So what the hell am I going to do?:shrug:

 

[RCastillo]

You "Nationalize an art, which means sponsorship, and control by a government. They hold the ultimate strings to all. So when it's time to clean house, they go all the way.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks:asian:

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Shiatsu
What sucks is I am about half way through the ITF curriculum, then I moved here, and I am now about half way through WTF. So what the hell am I going to do?:shrug:

Go back to the ITF. As it is now, you have several options, at least 4 groups claiming to be "the right way."

I'm sure you'll find one to your liking. I don't think you got alot to lose.:asian:

 

[Shiatsu]

I am kajukenbo right now, and JKD however I am already almost finished, so I will go back and complete it, when I find a good instuctor. I left the WTF school I was at because everything was about sport.:shrug:

 

[Disco]

That's what we need. Martial talk should start it's own organization and we can all join and train in the combination of all the styles represented here. :mst:

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Disco
That's what we need. Martial talk should start it's own organization and we can all join and train in the combination of all the styles represented here. :mst:

Great, you do that, we'll all kill each other for sure!

 

[MountainSage]

The art of TKD, WTF or ITF, is still the same inspite of the politics. These organizations got to large and tried to control to many details over to much area. With luck, the system will revert back to a more "traditional" situation, Grandmaster teaches and promotes Master who promotes black belts, no international organizations. Maybe the kwan system was a better system than was originally thought. If memory serves me, one of my past staements was that for the majority of TKDer's, being recognized by a national or international organization is unimportant and unecessary because most people don't compete at that level. As few as 2% of the total TKDer's in the world compete beyond there own region of the world, I was told.

Mountainsage

 

[Disco]

From what I have learned, history wise, as to the formation of national / international organizations for TKD was that the kwans would not always agree and honor another kwans teachings. Just can't get away from politics. The organization recognizes and accepts from all the kwans, so everybody is suppose to be given equal trearment and recognition. Started out on a good note but got totally out of hand by going the sports route (money). This is the end result. It's true what Mountain Sage says about the amount of people involved at the really big levels, but by just accepting Kwan recognition, which I agree with, we come full circle back to the original problem of kwans not accepting each others training. Perhaps in smaller countries this may not be a big problem, but here in the U.S. were a very mobile society. The benefit to us is that we can go and train anywhere in the country by finding a school that is a member of the organization and they will accept your rank because it's from the organization. To me, that's the only real benefit an organization can deliver. If your training is sound and you have confidence not only in your training but in yourself, then that's really all that matters.

 

[deadhand31]

I did hear that my school pulled out of the kukkiwon due to politics. I'm wondering if this is why. I have heard that they have been becoming lenient in upper-dan grading for money. i haven't been able to verify it, though... anyone got any info on this?

 

[MountainSage]

Disco,
Yes, my WTF rank allows me to train at any school at my level, yet my school is less sport more art. So, if I go to a school that is opposite then would they believe that we have similar training. When I spar and use mostly punches would they see me as equal, probably not. I feel that organization is less important than skill level and the ability to show it. What does a mobile socitey has to do with it, a front kick is a front kick wether Korean, japanese, etc. Yes, there are little details, yet the kick is the same no matter where you are located.

Mountainsage

 

[Disco]

We are in agreement. The only thing the organization aspect you would benefit from would be the fact that should you or anyone enroll in another school, under the same organization, you would be able to keep your present rank. You would'nt or should'nt have to start over again. Now if you choose to start over from white belt, that's your choice, but it should a choice. As you pointed out, the kick is the same no matter the location.

 

[Eldritch Knight]

Originally posted by Disco
Any chance on finding that post on the Kukkiwon? I wasen't aware that it was under investigation, just a few of the people connected with it. What in the world is going on with the KMA. Hapkido is in quicksand, The KTA and the Kukkiwon are in the toilet. WTF is most likely gonna bite some kind of bullet. The ITF is totally divided and is associated with North Korea. Are all the other korean arts undergoing problems also? I wish I wasen't so old. I'd find something else to start over in. Dosen't seem like your able to trust anything connected to the korean arts anymore.

Consider yourself lucky. I had a dedicated, heavily martial art based WTF instructor who I trained under for 7 years. Now, I'll have to start over in ITF.

Does anyone who's done both know if the forms and sparring techniques are similar?

 

[Shiatsu]

The forms are way different, the ITF forms are easier though. I was the opposite, I started in ITF, then I moved to where there was only WTF, now well you get it.