Wheel vs. roundhouse kick

[Brian Jones]

Ok so back to your original question, when would you use one over the other. Again it all depends. A lot depends on opportunity and target availablity. Your opponent may be open for one and not the other. Its a bit of an overgeneralization, but the wheel kick (in your terminology) is faster and has less of an opportunity to be telegraphed. The roundhouse may be slower since it travels a greater distance, but may be more powerful.
Now as I said that's over generalized. I've been hit with some wheel kicks that hit like a sledgehammer, and have seen some fast roundhouse kicks. When you get rigth down to it there isn't a tiem when one is always used over the other. A god rule of thumb is proper weapon to proper target I hope that helps.

Brian Jones

 

[Hand Sword]

Over the years, I've heard what is referred to as the roundhouse kick, also be called a wheel kick, and also a hook kick (because it travels the way a hook punch does). In terms of application of the kick, the chambering of the leg, the path of travel etc.., I've seen that apply to all of the terms used to describe the kick. So, I guess I would have to go with these are the same kicks, just different terminology, from different people.

 

[dubljay]

Over the years, I've heard what is referred to as the roundhouse kick, also be called a wheel kick, and also a hook kick (because it travels the way a hook punch does). In terms of application of the kick, the chambering of the leg, the path of travel etc.., I've seen that apply to all of the terms used to describe the kick. So, I guess I would have to go with these are the same kicks, just different terminology, from different people.

Not to get off topic, however I have a question of terminology

I was under the impression that in Kenpo (EPAK) terminology, there is a specific meaning to "hook" and "roundhouse" definition of strikes.

A strike is defined as a hooking strike when the strike takes place after the weapon has reached the apex of the circle. Where as a roundhouse is defined when the weapon strikes before it reaches the apex of the circle.

So my question is how could a wheel kick be described as a hook kick?

Sorry to get off topic but I am just curious.

-Josh-

 

[Hand Sword]

You are correct in your EPAK explanations of the definitions of hook and roundhouse. I've heard GM Parker give the explanations you've provided in your post. In the round kick being called a hook kick, it comes from, (at least in my training experiences) mostly JKD practitioners that I was in contact with, as well as books by different authors on that art. Again, as I said the terminology depends on the system, and the practioners of those systems. For example, in our kempo community I've heard the EPAK people refer to a strike as a backknuckle, where in my SKK system it is called a backfist, with the backknuckle being a front punch up side down, traveling that way from the hip to the target.

 

[dubljay]

Thank you for that explanation handsword. I didn't mean to come off sounding like I was attacking the terminology of a particular system, I was just curious and posed a question. Sorry if I came off offensive.

 

[Hand Sword]

No problem, we are all brothers and sisters here! If my post seemed reprimanding, I apologize, that wasn't my intention I was just trying to help out a fellow M.A.. Much respect to you, and be safe!

 

[kenpo tiger]

<snip> I spoke with the head instructor last night and asked him the question. He said the roundhouse kick comes from the rear leg and the wheel kick from the front leg. Depending on the proximity and the relatice position of the target either one can be executed low, parallel to the groung (midrange) or rising.

That's exactly the way I learned it -- both in TKD and now in Kenpo, although as was pointed out by Tigerwoman upthread, the terminology differs from art to art.

And Handsword, thanks for pointing out the difference between backknuckle and backfist -- that further illustrates the point of differing terminology. Also points out the similarities in what we all do, no matter what our art.

 

[FearlessFreep]

That's exactly the way I learned it -- both in TKD and now in Kenpo, although as was pointed out by Tigerwoman upthread, the terminology differs from art to art.

Ironically, I asked my instructor about this tonight and he said the problem was that Kenpo and TKD come from much different backgrounds and thus have different meanings for the same words

 

[pete]

this is why before going to italy, you learn a bit of their language before going to the restaurant to order dinner...

 

[kenpo tiger]

That's exactly the way I learned it -- both in TKD and now in Kenpo, although as was pointed out by Tigerwoman upthread, the terminology differs from art to art.

Ironically, I asked my instructor about this tonight and he said the problem was that Kenpo and TKD come from much different backgrounds and thus have different meanings for the same words

You'll also find within tkd that there are many different associations for much the same reason -- no one could agree on anything.

Confusing as it may be, it is probably best if you ask someone from the same type of art for direction -- and the same association within that art. That way you should get the answer appropriate to your situation.

 

[Kenpodoc]

this is why before going to italy, you learn a bit of their language before going to the restaurant to order dinner...

But of course it's worse when you go to England and think your speaking the same language.

Jeff :asian:

 

[Jonah]

Sup Bro, us brits speek jus good merikin as y'all


Sorry - just could not help myself

Respectfully,

Jonah

 

[Kenpobuff]

I learned the two kicks just as Loun's post, #20, describes. In my TKD days it was just a roundhouse by both front and rear. :erg:

 

[Ray]

My instructor used to refer to a "double wheel" kick as being ball kick (front kick) to the groin followed by a roundhouse (by the same leg without putting the leg down in-between kicks). I've heard that same combination kick referred to as a "flip kick." I had often wondered what a "wheel" kick was...I think this thread has cleared it up for me.

 

[Kenpobuff]

Ray
I haven't heard anyone else refer to the flip kick yet. Glad to hear a version is still taught.
Our "flip kick" is a lower target wheel kick. For us you don't raise you knee as high or pivot your support leg. It is designed to be a nontelgraphing, quick distraction kick that targets the leg/knee area.

 

[zDom]

Back many years ago when I was taking TKD, a wheel kick was done like a hook kick,only the knee stayed straight, no "hooking motion". As a kickon its own it wasn't done much, but you would often se it as a "spinning wheel" kick where the leg stayed stiff, as opposed to a spinning hook kick. I may be wrong but I think the wheel is also prevelant in hapkido.
All in all I agree with the previous posters, if you post your school's definitions of the wheel and roudnhouse, perhaps someone can answer your question.

Being as this is a Kenpo/Kempo forum, I think he must mean the roundhouse variation as described in this thread.

In Korean martial arts, as far as I know, it is exactly as Mr. Jones describes in the quote above - straight, stiff leg, swung from the hip, hitting with the backside of the heel.

Usually the front leg version is called a "front heel kick" and the back leg version is called a "spinning heel kick." I have heard the back leg version called a wheel kick.

The TKD guys in this area typically just train the back leg, spinning version.

We train the front heel kick a lot in hapkido and, for me, it is fairly easy to score with during free sparring.

Usually I set it up by scoring with some crescent kicks. When they start to try to lean out of range of the crescents, I roll the hip over and drop the body to make a front heel kick.

In KMA, a roundhouse that comes up at a 45-degree angle to hit the target is called an "arc kick," while those that come in parallel to the ground are "roundhouse kicks," whether with a front or rear leg.

And, in KMA, there IS a difference between a spinning side kick and a spinning back kick - just like a side kick and back kick are different.

(Side kick: side of upper torso faces target. Back kick: back of torso is facing target)

Again, you are probably looking for the Kenpo/Kempo definitions, but thought you might find this information interesting.

 

[KenpoSterre]

What is the difference between these 2 kicks? When would you use one over the other?

a wheel kick is bringing up your lead leg turning your hips so your leg is sideways and horizontal to the ground, then you kick and but your leg down.

a roundhouse kick is when you lift your rear leg bring it to the front and then exucute a wheel kick. (you land in your original position.)

a wheel kick is good if your faced off left to left or right to right while a roundhouse kick is good if your faced off left to right or right to left.

 

[Sigung86]

a wheel kick is bringing up your lead leg turning your hips so your leg is sideways and horizontal to the ground, then you kick and but your leg down.

a roundhouse kick is when you lift your rear leg bring it to the front and then exucute a wheel kick. (you land in your original position.)

a wheel kick is good if your faced off left to left or right to right while a roundhouse kick is good if your faced off left to right or right to left.

Hi KenpoSterre,

You must be training under an old Tracy instructor! :rofl:

When I was coming up in the very early 70s under my instructor in San Antonio, he was Tracy, but from the Connor side of things. We called it simply a wheel kick and defined it just as you do. Actually, I didn't start calling a roundhouse kick, a roundhouse kick, until not too many years ago. Then it was simply to keep up with the times and the student's understanding.

But ... Not everyone sees it the way you and I do. :ultracool

 

[Sigung86]

As an after thought, and while we're talking ancient terminology...

Anybody? What is a Hinge Kick? artyon:

 

[KenpoSterre]

i really have no idea.

Hi KenpoSterre,

You must be training under an old Tracy instructor! :rofl:

When I was coming up in the very early 70s under my instructor in San Antonio, he was Tracy, but from the Connor side of things. We called it simply a wheel kick and defined it just as you do. Actually, I didn't start calling a roundhouse kick, a roundhouse kick, until not too many years ago. Then it was simply to keep up with the times and the student's understanding.

But ... Not everyone sees it the way you and I do. :ultracool

Actually I am training under mr. Jim Mitchell. Why did you mention the Tracy system?

My best guess it that a hinge kick is a kick andd your leg spaps back kicking yourself almost in the butt...I really have no idea.