what to do agaist.....

[Manny]

Manny,

Allow me to be blunt and to the point; many 'martial arty' techniques will get you injured or killed. They were developed, in many cases, by individuals that had/have never been in an edged weapon altercation. They in turn taught people who had/have never been in an edged weapon altercation and so forth. To state it plainly, if any technique relies on refined motor skills...it will fail. If it doesn't control the delivery system...it will fail. If it doesn't immediately and brutally incapacitate the attacker...it will fail. The reasons are simple, under duress, refined motor skills go out the window. If the delivery system isn't controlled you will be cut/stabbed. And if you don't immediately deal with the attacker then far too many variables exist that work against you.

Let's address some consideration;

What is the distance between you and the attacker?

Are you able to put obstacles and/or terrain between you and the attacker?

Are you able to introduce obstacles between you and the attacker?

If the situation calls for hands-on, do you have at your disposal gross-motor skills that control the delivery system and incapacitate the attacker?

Are you mentally as well as physically capable of killing your attacker if necessary? Can you inflict severe damage on the attacker if necessary?

Statistically speaking, most altercations average 7 seconds in duration with injury occurring in the first 3 seconds. Will your skill set allow you to deal with an edged weapon altercation in seconds? I personally know of only one edged weapon defense system that has real-world statistical data as to the level of effectiveness with law enforcement agencies. And it is taught by a lot of law enforcement agencies here and overseas. I'm sure there are a few other effective systems with real-world data, but I only know and teach the system as developed by Darren Laur and promoted by the late Peter Boatman. I've been teaching this system for our agency as well as my personal students since the 90's and I have been in edged and blunt weapon altercations. It isn't magic, it isn't flashy and it isn't 'martial-arty'. It is ugly, gross-motor, simple and brutal.

I don't know if you can make it up to Oklahoma next March, and I don't mean this as a 'shameless promotion' but I'll be teaching this system at our IKSDA seminar for free. You'd be welcome to attend.

Thank you for the invitation, you are sucha a gentelman.

Manny

 

[Manny]

Dear Manny,

There are effective system that can help you deal with a knife attack. Nevertheless, they won't make you invincible against one. They'll only raise your chances to survive. Even though, there are many variables (present in any kind of real life agression) that will reduce your chances (number of attackers, psychic state, and many many other). My first and most important advice for this kind of question is usually: "don't fight". This is probably not cool, and it doesn't fulfil most martial artists' sweet fighting dreams, but the truth is that in most cases fighting is the worst option (usually the only time where this is wrong is when fighting is the <only> option).

I'm serious. You have a family, you have a lot to put at risk. So the best way to protect yourself is avoidance, you know, do everything not to be there when the robber shows up. If you ever be caught, just give your belongings and return home safe and sound.
You can train martial arts to really be able to protect yourself from someone who doesn't give you any option other than fighting back, but honestly, is this a possible scenario? To my kind of life it isn't. If someone attacks me, their intent is to rob me. Quite easier to escape alive, if you ask me. If someone really wants to kill me (I don't have that many enemies, anyway), they just won't give me a chance to fight back, probably. So I can train with intent to defend myself for real, but I don't plan to ever do it.

Taking it simple, in most cases, if someone fights, they have a chance to survive and a chance to die (even if it is a small chance -- although I don't think it would be so small). If someone just lets it go without fighting, they go back home (losing money and other belongings, but what's more important?). Why would you prefer to take the risk?

Always think of your family, my friend, and use the DO side of martial arts. It is a great way to take us longer in life.

Best wishes.

Sérgio

Thank you Sergio, you are right, my watch, wallet and cel phone are worth my sfe bacon so I will give them to the bad person who demands it at gun or knife point, ans yes if possible stay away from the treat and give the belogins. I am not a superhuman and no one is bullet or stab profe so as long as I can stay away from the knife it will be ok the problem is my wife and daughters they are easy prey, the only thing I can do is to talk them and try to make them understand to stay away from bad places, unknown people and always be alert.

Manny

 

[Instructor]

I've known people to keep a cast off wallet in addition to their real wallet. Same with the cell phone. That way they just get crappy used phone and a buck or two in a worthless wallet filled with store discount plastic cards and not your I.D. credit cards and money.

 

[sopraisso]

I've known people to keep a cast off wallet in addition to their real wallet. Same with the cell phone of wallet. That way they just get crappy used phone and a buck or two in a worthless wallet filled with store discount plastic cards and not your I.D. credit cards and money.

I've already used this kind of strategy and it worked! Off course not in every case it would, but many robbers just can't waste time suspecting you'd be with one more cell phone or wallet. They have to attack fast and flee faster, so when you give them a wallet and a cell phone, their job is done. When I walk I also usually bring with me only what I need for the situation. Sometimes I put money and my main documents in a really small wallet, so I'm free to give the big wallet with only few bucks and useless paper. Off course here we're talking about a specific kind of assault. It's not like when someone kidnaps you, or when a criminal has plenty of time to check everything you got (in this case I believe you better give everything at once).

I live in a relatively dangerous place, and I've been robbed three times (not counting non-violent approaches!). I could've surely avoided at least 2 of those three ocurrences, adopting a more cautious attitude (for example, not walking on foot at late night/isolate places). Today I'm impressed that I feel it's so easy to avoid being robbed in my place, just taking some simple safety measures. Off course, it's not the case for every kind of assault, but I do believe it works for the most common one (at least in my place).
One thing I also do is always go out with a few bucks, say the equivalent to 10, 20 dollars, so a more agressive robber won't be angry for me having nothing to give him. This is a serious issue in my place -- the robber could just leave you, but instead he could shoot you just for the sake of having nothing else to do. It doesn't happen every time, but I've heard of it happening enough to take care.

Anyway, despite the fact I live in a place where you can easily be robbed (if you have some kinds of behaviour, you will), my neighbourhood is not attended by street gangs, and this kind of threat, I believe, seems a more complicated one to deal with: you can give your crappy mobile to two guys in a hurry, but what if there's a team of agressive degenerates? In other hand, this kind of threat is much easier to spot from distance and we ought to know which places they walk by, and avoid those places.

Going back to the knife defense issue, there's this great vid that can give some insight about the reality of a knife attack -- much more dangerous than many martial arts practitioners imagine:

Maybe it wouldn't be bad idea to move this thread to the self defense forum or another more suited one, where other people could share more opinions about the issue.

 

[Manny]

Well nice replies and we can sumarize.

1.-Avoid bad places to be in there.
2.-Always in yellow condition.
3.-Keep away from unknow persons.

In case you be forced against a robber (s), give them your belongins (watch,wallet,cell phone,etc). If this mugger wants to really hurt you then be explosive and fight with theet and nails and get out of there!!!

Maybe 3 or 4 times if you keep cool and aware of your sorroundings and keep away of bad places then you won't be robed or hurted.

Manny

 

[Earl Weiss]

Going back to the knife defense issue, there's this great vid that can give some insight about the reality of a knife attack -- much more dangerous than many martial arts practitioners imagine:

.

Great video

 

[Earl Weiss]

Here's an example of a technique with flaws that will get people hurt if they don't know what they are. Taller instructor on shorter perosn can make it work as opposed to smaller defender with larger attacker. Reaching around to the back of the arm isoften taught but is very difficult if the attacker is taller and the arm has gone past perpendicular.

It is much more failsafe to apply the "Figure 4 " lock by having the non intercept arm go around the front.

 

[sopraisso]

Here's an example of a technique with flaws that will get people hurt if they don't know what they are. Taller instructor on shorter perosn can make it work as opposed to smaller defender with larger attacker. Reaching around to the back of the arm isoften taught but is very difficult if the attacker is taller and the arm has gone past perpendicular.

It is much more failsafe to apply the "Figure 4 " lock by having the non intercept arm go around the front.

Agreed.

The very setup for the technique, with an attack coming from a distance, in an up-down motion with a fully extended arm already seems so much unrealistic. Terrible as it is, I believe most knife attacks begin when the attacker is already close in, many times the knife is in disguise until the point it cuts you.

In two of the times I was robbed, the muggers didn't show their weapons (but stated clearly they had weapons). I had enouch evidence to be sure they didn't have a firearm, but if they had a knife in disguise it could've been enough to give me a real problem if a had to fight them, I wouldn't even see the knife when it was already in my gut. The attacker wouldn't need to make it from a distance the way the video showed, they wouldn't need to be so explicit nor use large movements, neither.

The simple thing of having a non-compliant opponent makes things much more complicated. Once the lock is connected, things tend to get better, but how to make it if the guy attacks pulling the arm back (to make another attack, what is quite natural) fast? I don't think it s very easy to grab an arm like that (off course it's not impossible). Even if one grabs the arm, still there's a possibillity for the attacker to get the knife with the other hand -- it becomes impossible as the lock progresses, but in the beginning it could happen.

I don't even think about such a situation where I could have to fight a knife attack, but, if I did, I would probably try not to engage the attacker, and use as much obstruction as possible to avoid him getting close (chairs, cars, terrain, etc.).

 

[Instructor]

If your attacker is armed, it is best to become armed yourself. It is unwise to deal with a knife with your empty hands. I find a chair to be a pretty good weapon against a knife.

Awareness and good judgement is the best weapon. The best fight is the one that never happened.