What Martial Arts should i study to be a great well rounded martial artist?

[mograph]

And just because the tournament competitive side of MA doesn't do it for you, doesn't mean that you are anti-competition.

Yes. There's too much of "if you don't do what I do, or like what I like, you must be against it and want to stamp it out" out there.

 

[jobo]

Regardless, those with an extensive sporting MA background tend to do better.

that may be true, it may not,what I'm certain of is that you have no data to support it and are therefore passing of opinion as fact.

 

[Langenschwert]

that may be true, it may not,what I'm certain of is that you have no data to support it and are therefore passing of opinion as fact.

Gangsters Forcibly Enter MMA Fighter’s Home — and the Decision Proves Deadly

There are lots of stories like that one, and a perusal of liveleak will corroborate this. Now, I'm jot saying that sport martial arts are the be all end all. I myself practice very non- sporting arts as well, one of them being for modern self-defence. However, all the scariest folks I know, some of which are self defense instructors and cops (or both), have a solid sporting MA background. After them, the scariest people I know are in my judo dojo. I'd be happy to have them at my back in a real fight.

Now, let's assume that your current training is adequately self-defence oriented and is of high quality. You likely don't need more of that. You need resistant training with high performing fighters. The best place to find them in most places is on a mat, or in a ring.

This is not new. Even in medieval Germany, wrestling was the primary unarmed art of the professional warrior class. These were people whose lives depended on their combat skills day to day, because they were out there fighting against people who were trying to kill them. One of the earliest manuals from the period states "all fencing comes from wrestling". By wrestling they meant grappling in general. So if the warriors of one of the most war torn places on earth said "wrestle", go do that. Furthermore, they were well aware of the benefits of sporting MA, as they did tournaments in peace time to keep themselves in fighting shape. I have more than enough data to support it... there's the whole martial history of Europe.

Now, maybe judo or wrestling aren't your cup of tea, and that's ok. Maybe the training won't resonate with you. That's ok too! However, I believe you'd be doing a great disservice to yourself by not trying.

 

[jobo]

Gangsters Forcibly Enter MMA Fighter’s Home — and the Decision Proves Deadly

There are lots of stories like that one, and a perusal of liveleak will corroborate this. Now, I'm jot saying that sport martial arts are the be all end all. I myself practice very non- sporting arts as well, one of them being for modern self-defence. However, all the scariest folks I know, some of which are self defense instructors and cops (or both), have a solid sporting MA background. After them, the scariest people I know are in my judo dojo. I'd be happy to have them at my back in a real fight.

Now, let's assume that your current training is adequately self-defence oriented and is of high quality. You likely don't need more of that. You need resistant training with high performing fighters. The best place to find them in most places is on a mat, or in a ring.

This is not new. Even in medieval Germany, wrestling was the primary unarmed art of the professional warrior class. These were people whose lives depended on their combat skills day to day, because they were out there fighting against people who were trying to kill them. One of the earliest manuals from the period states "all fencing comes from wrestling". By wrestling they meant grappling in general. So if the warriors of one of the most war torn places on earth said "wrestle", go do that. Furthermore, they were well aware of the benefits of sporting MA, as they did tournaments in peace time to keep themselves in fighting shape. I have more than enough data to support it... there's the whole martial history of Europe.

Now, maybe judo or wrestling aren't your cup of tea, and that's ok. Maybe the training won't resonate with you. That's ok too! However, I believe you'd be doing a great disservice to yourself by not trying.

there is a certain degree of confirmation bias in you looking for news stories that support you view.
but let's deal with some facts, you said competition fighter do better at self defence, than the rest of humanity.

people with no MA back ground never mind competition, successful defend them self's every day. Hundreds of thousands of them all over the globe, they don't make the news,.

so again what data have you got that shows competition fighter are more successful ay defending themselves than every one else

 

[Charlemagne]

My own personal interpretation of what it means to be a well rounded martial artist. Does your training consist of all of the following (percentages might vary):

• Weapons and weapons counter-offense
• Striking
• Clinch work/stand up grappling
• Ground fighting./ground based grappling
• Strength and conditioning*

If so, you are hitting all of the major areas in my view. If not, I believe something is lacking if being well-rounded as a Martial Artist is the goal. Others might disagree, but I think there is good logic to be had.

*some systems which require very intense conditioning as part of their training (BJJ, Boxing, MT, Wrestling, etc.) might mitigate the need for separate conditioning, though strength and power work would still be important.

 

[Langenschwert]

there is a certain degree of confirmation bias in you looking for news stories that support you view.
but let's deal with some facts, you said competition fighter do better at self defence, than the rest of humanity.

people with no MA back ground never mind competition, successful defend them self's every day. Hundreds of thousands of them all over the globe, they don't make the news.

so again what data have you got that shows competition fighter are more successful ay defending themselves than every one else

And many don't, hence murder statistics. Unfortunately, the only evidence is anecdotal, since I doubt a thorough scientific study has ever been done on the issue. However, "Untrained, asthmatic accountant beats up wrestler" is a pretty rare headline, I'm willing to bet.

Furthermore, martial arts =/= self defence. It's a part of it.

The sport vs. "t3h d34d1y" has been settled long ago. If you can't land a jab, you can't land an eye gouge. It's frankly ludicrous to think that a combat sports athlete can't defend themselves better than an untrained person. They can do everything an untrained person can do, only with greater precision, speed, strength, positioning, and timing. Add to that the well-honed toolkit of their art, and they're well on their way. Yes, they will need to add things to complete a SD skill set, but they'll have a great foundation to build on.

Yes, there's bias in this conversation, but it probably ain't me. What's your combat sports background?

 

[jobo]

And many don't, hence murder statistics. Unfortunately, the only evidence is anecdotal, since I doubt a thorough scientific study has ever been done on the issue. However, "Untrained, asthmatic accountant beats up wrestler" is a pretty rare headline, I'm willing to bet.

Furthermore, martial arts =/= self defence. It's a part of it.

The sport vs. "t3h d34d1y" has been settled long ago. If you can't land a jab, you can't land an eye gouge. It's frankly ludicrous to think that a combat sports athlete can't defend themselves better than an untrained person. They can do everything an untrained person can do, only with greater precision, speed, strength, positioning, and timing. Add to that the well-honed toolkit of their art, and they're well on their way. Yes, they will need to add things to complete a SD skill set, but they'll have a great foundation to build on.

Yes, there's bias in this conversation, but it probably ain't me. What's your combat sports background?

yes but the untrained person only has to defend against their attacker, not a trained fighter, the over weight accountant might have a great swing from all that golf he plays and so beats off the 17 yo junky.

I've a combat back ground in that I have defended myself many times long before I went near a dojo.im only there now as I'm getting old, if i was 20 year younger I wouldn't need it

 

[drop bear]

And many don't, hence murder statistics. Unfortunately, the only evidence is anecdotal, since I doubt a thorough scientific study has ever been done on the issue. However, "Untrained, asthmatic accountant beats up wrestler" is a pretty rare headline, I'm willing to bet.

Furthermore, martial arts =/= self defence. It's a part of it.

The sport vs. "t3h d34d1y" has been settled long ago. If you can't land a jab, you can't land an eye gouge. It's frankly ludicrous to think that a combat sports athlete can't defend themselves better than an untrained person. They can do everything an untrained person can do, only with greater precision, speed, strength, positioning, and timing. Add to that the well-honed toolkit of their art, and they're well on their way. Yes, they will need to add things to complete a SD skill set, but they'll have a great foundation to build on.

Yes, there's bias in this conversation, but it probably ain't me. What's your combat sports background?

But there is no data supporring it. Now i have a bias that you are probably right. Anecdotaly I have seen that good sports guys are real issues in street fights.

And when I get bashed by a guy within a rule set I have no desire to throw those rules out and see how I go.

But no data is a valid argument.

 

[drop bear]

yes but the untrained person only has to defend against their attacker, not a trained fighter, the over weight accountant might have a great swing from all that golf he plays and so beats off the 17 yo junky.

I've a combat back ground in that I have defended myself many times long before I went near a dojo.im only there now as I'm getting old, if i was 20 year younger I wouldn't need it

Now you are combating anecdotal with anecdotal. There are absolutely trained attackers out there.

http://nypost.com/2017/06/05/war-ma...prison-for-attack-on-porn-star-ex-girlfriend/

'Mayhem' arrested for alleged assault of officer

 

[jobo]

Now you are combating anecdotal with anecdotal. There are absolutely trained attackers out there.

http://nypost.com/2017/06/05/war-ma...prison-for-attack-on-porn-star-ex-girlfriend/

'Mayhem' arrested for alleged assault of officer

one beat his x girl friend up and one threw a bit of pottery at a police officer. How worried should I be?
nb he ask for my combat experiance, that can only be anecdotal

 

[drop bear]

one beat his x girl friend up and one threw a bit of pottery at a police officer. How worried should I be?
nb he ask for my combat experiance, that can only be anecdotal

Depends if you date MMA guys. But anyhow trained people do assault people. What data we don't have is how many how often.

 

[Buka]

Depends if you date MMA guys. But anyhow trained people do assault people. What data we don't have is how many how often.

I agree. I think most schools have at least one resident A-hole.

 

[Balrog]

i just received Chodan (1st degree) in Moo duk Kwan T'ang Soo Do, i kinda wanna start exploring other styles too to make myself more well rounded, what should i do?

Keep in mind that you have accomplished the m.a. equivalent of graduating from high school, and congratulations on doing that. I would stick with Tang Soo Do until you make at least 3rd Degree. Once you have really applied yourself to your base style for a while, then you can look at other things.

I would take a little BJJ to learn the basics of grappling. You might also look at aikido for joint manipulation. But do NOT stop training in TSD to do this. Have fun!

 

[Langenschwert]

one beat his x girl friend up and one threw a bit of pottery at a police officer. How worried should I be?
nb he ask for my combat experiance, that can only be anecdotal

I asked what your combat sports background was to see how such training might have influenced your perception of it.

 

[Charlemagne]

I asked what your combat sports background was to see how such training might have influenced your perception of it.

You're wasting your time.

 

[jobo]

I asked what your combat sports background was to see how such training might have influenced your perception of it.

I've had a good few fights in my life, some of them for sport. The major advantage that gives you over sport, is the consequences f losing are far greater . That's given me the certain knowledge that there are lots of people who can fight to a good standard that have been any where near a dojo Or an organised event. Then can most certainly defend them self's as well as most competition fighter, with the notable exception of high very high level . Just saying as you id that competition fighters are better,without considering what level of competition they fight at is silly

 

[Ironbear24]

one beat his x girl friend up and one threw a bit of pottery at a police officer. How worried should I be?
nb he ask for my combat experiance, that can only be anecdotal

Work on your flexibility so you can kick these morons in the face. They need it.

 

[Langenschwert]

I've had a good few fights in my life, some of them for sport. The major advantage that gives you over sport, is the consequences f losing are far greater . That's given me the certain knowledge that there are lots of people who can fight to a good standard that have been any where near a dojo Or an organised event. Then can most certainly defend them self's as well as most competition fighter, with the notable exception of high very high level . Just saying as you id that competition fighters are better,without considering what level of competition they fight at is silly

So what you need is higher level competition. It's true that perhaps taking up point fighting karate is not ideal for upping your game. You need something that will grind you down and push you. Few things will do that more than judo, wrestling or MMA. Ideally, the training will be worse than any confrontation you might have. Those judoka I've talked to who used it is self defence have said how easy it was to apply... way easier than in the dojo.

From my perspective, I have a fair amount of experience with both sporting and non sporting arts, being HEMA, koryu kenjutsu, koryu battojutsu, modern combatives and judo. For the purposes of being able to "take care of myself", judo has upped my game considerably, despite being a sporting art. Learning how to manipulate the human body as a wrestler or judoka can han hardly be overvalued. With judo, you'll have a takedown skillset that is hard to beat, and a functional ground game. The effectiveness of the combination of judo and boxing is considered to be axiomatic these days, so combining it with your striking art should produce excellent results. The pressure of the training will give you a mental toughness you didn't think you had. As a general rule, judoka are tough as nails, and do very well in "real world" encounters. If your body can handle it, it will pay huge dividends.

Another point I leaned from judo: all the takedowns I've learned don't work quite the way I thought they would. It's a great reality check. All those takedowns you know will get taken to a whole new level.

 

[JR 137]

I think it's more a matter of personal mindset. Some folks just aren't interested in competition - it doesn't align with our personal approach to MA. I'm mostly in that camp. I might have had enough interest to compete in a grappling art, if I'd ever had the time and money (at the same time) to commit to it. I'm just not interested in beating someone to win a match. And that's honestly not a judgement statement on those who are - it's an effective part of training, and some folks enjoy the challenge of it. I've never really enjoyed hitting people, at all. I do it in sparring because that's a necessary (IMO) part of training.

Competing in MA (or anything else) doesn't have to be about beating your opponent. I competed in a tournament last June, and I'm contemplating competing again in October. Here's how I look at it...

I HATE point fighting. My arms and legs are too short to be truly effective at it. Due to my build, I cover up, get inside, and strike from there. There's no giving up a weaker strike to get inside and pound away at my opponent in point fighting. And my feet are too heavy to dance around.

I love training for competition far more than the event itself. Training for competition forces me to take a great look at my weaknesses and gives me a sense of urgency to fix them. There's no "I'll work on that later" mentality. The training also works on my technique and reflexes. And my conditioning. There's no "I'll get in shape next week" mentality either.

The only one I'm truly competing against during a tournament is myself. I can't control how good or bad the competition is. All I can do is try to outdo myself. If I beat a bunch of bums, I'm not nearly as happy as scoring a few well earned points while getting beat in the first round by someone far better than me. It's all about exceeding my own expectations. If I do my kata far better than I ever have and place last, I'd genuinely be much happier than if I made some mistakes and still beat a bunch of people who sucked.

I enjoy the preparation and trying to outdo myself. The scoreboard always takes care of itself.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Competing in MA (or anything else) doesn't have to be about beating your opponent. I competed in a tournament last June, and I'm contemplating competing again in October. Here's how I look at it...

I HATE point fighting. My arms and legs are too short to be truly effective at it. Due to my build, I cover up, get inside, and strike from there. There's no giving up a weaker strike to get inside and pound away at my opponent in point fighting. And my feet are too heavy to dance around.

I love training for competition far more than the event itself. Training for competition forces me to take a great look at my weaknesses and gives me a sense of urgency to fix them. There's no "I'll work on that later" mentality. The training also works on my technique and reflexes. And my conditioning. There's no "I'll get in shape next week" mentality either.

The only one I'm truly competing against during a tournament is myself. I can't control how good or bad the competition is. All I can do is try to outdo myself. If I beat a bunch of bums, I'm not nearly as happy as scoring a few well earned points while getting beat in the first round by someone far better than me. It's all about exceeding my own expectations. If I do my kata far better than I ever have and place last, I'd genuinely be much happier than if I made some mistakes and still beat a bunch of people who sucked.

I enjoy the preparation and trying to outdo myself. The scoreboard always takes care of itself.

I like that mindset. It's a good way to drive yourself.

I just don't have the interest in hitting someone hard in order to win the bout. I don't really know how to explain it. In sparring, I only hit as hard as is necessary and am willing to "lose" to keep things safe for all involved, and I'm more concerned with how much control I feel in the situation. I usually play a more defensive game. Something about competition just doesn't line up right for me, when it comes to striking. I've never had enough interest in it, for it to be a useful driver. Perhaps if I'd gotten into it early in my training - maybe my attitude is learned, rather than personality-based.