What makes a good technique?

[BLACK LION]

Techniques are only as good as the principles it is based on... with simple- honest- solid- principles you find infinite techniques.... ultimately there wont be any techniques....only adapting principle to situation or circumstance

 

[jkembry]

Since everybody so far is in agreement as to the K.I.S.S. aspect, allow me to pose this question dealing with techniques. Is it important for you to have the technique "look good" or is just plain functional more than enough? The reason I ask is because some styles seem to place a premimum on how a person looks/delivers a particular technique and even though the technique is workable, it dosen't look all that smooth or clean or whatever discription you may want to use. So does it "have" to look good or is just being functional enough for you?....................

Funny this should be a topic now. The other evening at training we had a visiting Sensei that stressed getting the mechanics of the technique right and then once that happens, let the technique do the work.

I am still working out what exactly that means...and I suspect that I am trying to make too much out of the statement.

 

[BLACK LION]

its the principles.... you can train technique after technique only to find the situation doesnt warrant it... then its useless... if ones trains in the realm of techniques then one finds variation after variation from person to person... there is no solid ground... you may have ground techniques and gun techniques and knife techniques and club techniques and all these techniques for various situtations ... its overload... most of them dont even apply to one another... then when actually in a fight for ones safety or survival you find ones techniques inaccessible and only the most primal of instincts kick in... you see people curl up in a ball... try to run... you see them in despair.... look at police footage where a suspect or perp goes for the gun... they end up squirming around for minutes on end... all those techniques they learned to control suspects went out the window...

if what you train is based on physical and scientific truth and principles are established on such... technique becomes absent and adaptation becomes prevelant.... so rather than accessing my log of techniques all I am doing is accepting the situation adapting to it and aggressing it till it is no longer a threat.... AAA

techniques seem to add complexity on top of complexity.... when using principle truth is the smoothest most effect approach

 

[ackks10]

its the principles.... you can train technique after technique only to find the situation doesnt warrant it... then its useless... if ones trains in the realm of techniques then one finds variation after variation from person to person... there is no solid ground... you may have ground techniques and gun techniques and knife techniques and club techniques and all these techniques for various situtations ... its overload... most of them dont even apply to one another... then when actually in a fight for ones safety or survival you find ones techniques inaccessible and only the most primal of instincts kick in... you see people curl up in a ball... try to run... you see them in despair.... look at police footage where a suspect or perp goes for the gun... they end up squirming around for minutes on end... all those techniques they learned to control suspects went out the window...

if what you train is based on physical and scientific truth and principles are established on such... technique becomes absent and adaptation becomes prevelant.... so rather than accessing my log of techniques all I am doing is accepting the situation adapting to it and aggressing it till it is no longer a threat.... AAA

techniques seem to add complexity on top of complexity.... when using principle truth is the smoothest most effect approach

you got it Black lion

 

[geezer]

Often simplicity is brutality.

Complexity creates options, options allow control.

These are not absolutes, but another side of the debate that needs to be recognized.

Any thug with a baseball bat can come up with a simple, fast and effective way to end a confrontation.

A martial artist should be able to end that confrontation without injury to himself OR OTHERS when the occasion calls for it.

Playing devil's advocate here a bit.

Using control so that you can subdue an attacker without undue injury to him or yourself...this is a noble sentiment. I note that you describe yourself as a fifth degee black-belt. Perhaps you do have the skill to allow yourself to be compassionate and achieve this goal. I would wager that most of us do not. OK, maybe if we are attacked by a drunken brother in law, but not on the street when confronted with a weapon wielding mugger. I would only resort to fighting in such a desperate situation, and only if either I couldn't get away, or had to protect someone else. In such a scenario, I wouldn't presume the luxury of being so merciful. Not when my life or the lives of those I love are at risk.

Now, on a different note, Black Lion reiterates his earlier assertion that "Techniques are only as good as the principle it is based on..." Fair enough, Lion. What do hold to be the core principles that a good technique shoud be rooted in? That's the real question.

 

[celtic_crippler]

Did it work?

 

[BLACK LION]

Now, on a different note, Black Lion reiterates his earlier assertion that "Techniques are only as good as the principle it is based on..." Fair enough, Lion. What do hold to be the core principles that a good technique shoud be rooted in? That's the real question.

Depends on the purpose of the individual.....

for me... all of my responses are based on a combat/combatives perspective and never meant to be coupled with social or anti-social situations... I feel that an individual who is trained to the extent of being "lethal" should be able to easily avoid or de-escalate social situations in which real violence is not the initial intent.... matches of ego and wits should be non-existent....

that being said... I believe the core principles should be honest and simple...they should be universal... based on physics and science...
for example... i have no gun technique , knife technique, club technique, or even a naked meth head technique ...the principle is the same for all situations regardless of the infinite angles and approaches... for me its... injure them now and continue till I am satisfied...as long as I am injuring them I have control.... I have the choice to end it when I feel it is necessary... there is no technique to that... just get in there and get it done... there are prisons full of people with not training or technique but they knew what worked and did not stop until the job was done....

and of course I will elaborate more...but I have to go for now

 

[Cirdan]

Rooting, for instance is a pretty universal principle.

 

[BLACK LION]

I wanted to train it all... I wanted the best and most effective techniques... i wanted the best groundwork and footwork... i wanted to be faster and stronger than any one or more I faced.... I figured becuase I had been jumped, beaten, hit with bottles and what not I could handle whatever came at me... becuase I trained hard, I trained the raw forms like jkd, muay thai, wing chun, chin na, juijitsu but I didnt train like the guys in the gym... i put scenarios in my training and added force multiplyers(knives,guns) as well as multiple attackers.... I felt empowerd but I was infact confused and began fearing that my training would fail me if all these techniques werent available when I needed them...maybe one day I will meet someone who is "BETTER".....I never realized I had sacrificed the very basic necessities in my search for my own skill and my own style.... I wanted to be so good becuase I felt like since I had faced many there is no harm one man can do to me. I never realized that all my hard work existed under a SOCIAL/ANTI SOCIAL CURTAIN.... I realized that I had trained to deal with events in a social fashion by kicking,punching,grappling,joint locks, chokes, disarming, eye gouges and groin shots...I even trained to hit "pressure points".... but all socially meaning... "I am not going to kill you right here and now".... I had an epiphany... from mma to kimbo collins backyard brawl to youtube to comegetyousome fights, brawls and knockouts... all social and yes seemingly violent... but infact no where near "real violence"....

I was forced to turn my attention to the most shocking and horrible situations... columbine,911, virginia tech, plane hijackings, carjackings, home invasions, terrorist bombings,workplace shootings, hostage situations, kidnappings, rapes,armed robberies, gang violence, drug addicts, mental patients etc they are in the paper daily.... ASOCIAL SITUATIONS IN WHICH ALL MORAL REASON AND APTITUDE IS ABSENT... WHEN ONLY THE MOST PRIMAL AND PRIMITIVE CONTRACTS EXIST... IN BLOOD... IN DEATH

I began a quest in the "REALITY BASED" sector looking for the answers...looking for the right tools... what I found shocked me... ... I found most were doing the same thing but just with certain techniques involved.... every one had a different twist but "based on real world experience"... although based on asocial confrontation the physicality was still complex thru techniques and very elastic in nature, it was also governed by the rules "bigger better stonger" becuase the techniques require you to use speed and strength but never take into the consideration you may be slower and weaker at any point in a violent confrontation.... leaving you copitulating or assisting in your own injury or death... they all had the same thing in common... techniques for everything..... but to me...techniques apply when there are rules that govern the situation... what about when thare are no rules????? when its just you alone in the face of death.... all you have at your disposal is the most basic essentials... eveything becomes simple and honest... injure or be injured... kill or be killed... there is no technique in the face of that situation... only principle, only truth....