What makes a good teacher?

[Gerry Seymour]

I've watched some of our assistant instructors without much leadership experience try to lead young kids through a form, and most of the kids get lost really early on

That's different than not going at the pace of the slowest student. They've missed the pace of the class.

 

[lklawson]

In Buka's post:

My point was just that "fighting" wasn't part of the OP's question, rather "Martial Arts" was. Early on in my martial arts travel, I believed wholly that the two were synonymous. But over the years, I've come to realize that, despite what most people claim, learning how to "fight" (or "self defense") really isn't the reason that most adults train long-term in martial arts. There's a bunch of reasons and, if "self defense"/"fighting" is in the mix, it's a small part.

That's all I meant.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[_Simon_]

It depends a lot on the student, but I find that a lot of our techniques we teach "wrong", because if we teach it correct from the start then it leads to other problems. For example:

• With young kids (I'm especially talking 4-5 year olds here), if you try to get them to pivot their feet when they punch, they will step with their punches. So we teach them to not move their feet with a rear-hand punch, which is incorrect, but is more correct than what they would do. Sometimes this age group is like herding cats, and half of what I do in the little kid (4-7 year old) white belt class is just keep the kids from running into each other or hitting the person in front of them. They're not hitting them out of trying to hit them, but just because they're not paying attention to how far forward they're moving (this behavior is gone by the time they get their yellow belt, but they can be a handful until then).
• With the back kick, we sometimes teach it as more of a side kick until it can be fully articulated the differences between a back kick and a side kick. People have trouble with back kick until I tell them to "turn around and do a side kick" and then later we show the subtleties between them.
• There are two different ways to do a front kick - one with the ball of the feet and one with the instep. For the most part, it varies based on target. We teach with the instep, because that's how we hold the targets, and honestly we don't use front kicks much in our curriculum outside of the technique itself.
• Ax kick goes through several iterations. We start with a straight up-and-down stretch kick at lower belts, at higher belts teach outside-inside ax kick, and at black belt teach the sparring version which is more like a vertical hook kick. This is because at the start we use it to work on flexibility, and then expand the range of muscles we hit, and then teach the practical version.
• Our hand grabs in our Taekwondo class are easier than our hand grabs in Hapkido, because the version in Taekwondo is safer and easier to learn (and we spend maybe 5-10 minutes a class on them) and the Hapkido versions are more effective, but more dangerous to use and more difficult to learn. This is spoken as someone who is a 2nd degree black belt in our Taekwondo system and an orange belt in our Hapkido system (even if you don't know our exact belt structure, you can guess a pretty good idea). I will be a 3rd degree black belt in Taekwondo for probably over a year before I get my black belt in Hapkido.
• Some of our students have a lot of habits they need to work on. There's no benefit they will get from being told to work on 5 different habits at once. As an instructor, it's our job to figure out which habits are most important, and then as to the others take the "there's bigger fish to fry" approach.

There's also anecdotes of questions I get asked. For example:

• When getting ready for his first degree black belt test (as in, 10 minutes before the test and I asked if anyone had any questions) a kid was asking about things he could do when he was a 7th degree black belt and I told him that right now he needed to focus on the next 4 hours.
• Some kids want to do the more advanced techniques before they master the prerequisites. For example, one kid wanted to do the forms for the next belt, when his technique was very sloppy at his current belt.
• Sometimes I get asked questions outside the scope of my instruction. For example, one kid, around 10 or 11 years old, came up to me before class and asked "what's puberty like?"

So, to summarize:

1. Sometimes the question isn't relevant to Taekwondo instruction
2. Sometimes you want to avoid overwhelming someone, so you isolate the most important parts of the technique and teach more details once they've mastered the details you've given them
3. Sometimes you need to keep students grounded in their techniques instead of trying to jump ahead too early

Great post skribs, and yeah it definitely requires a bit of discernment to know what to share and when.

LOL at the funny kids questions... I've had that during class, a kid will come up and just say the most random things... "I played basketball today."

But I'm often surprised at what kids put their hands up to say, things like "Karate is about balance." Blows me away!


I'm not an instructor per se, but am still assistant instructor for the kids karate class for my old dojo, so I can only speak on that front as well as when I taught piano to primary school kids. And everyone's pretty much covered it..

Patience patience patience haha. So important, and it's something I've mostly been good with, but have struggled at times for sure. The student is currently experiencing a whole other world and isn't at the same level of understanding, and to try and project your own expectations onto them as to how something should be done is very conflicting. To slow down and ask, "How are they currently seeing this..." "What part are they not understanding.." "How can I communicate this in a way they'll understand.." has been really insightful.

And I always go too far in explaining things and maybe overcomplicating it for kids, you can see the look in their face when you've done that haha..

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Okay, a few thoughts. I doubt I'll stick to 3. Let's find out.

As others have implied, there's a difference between what makes a teacher good, and what makes a good teacher (the latter being the process that builds the teacher).

A willingness to question - and to be questioned - is essential to me. I think it makes good instructors, and good students. If you stop questioning, you stop learning. If you never start questioning, you're not learning very deeply, and are at risk of accepting things dogmatically.

Adaptability. The best teachers are able to adapt to students. Nobody can adapt to everyone's needs (at least, not in a group situation), but a really good teacher is able to recognize and adapt to individual needs along the way. Pushing those who need pushing, laying off those who need time, getting louder and softer as the student(s) need, etc.

A willingness to be wrong. This kinda goes along with the first one, but isn't exactly the same. A good instructor has to be willing to be corrected (even by students, when appropriate), and to correct himself. If you're always right, you're kidding yourself.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Patience patience patience haha. So important, and it's something I've mostly been good with, but have struggled at times for sure. The student is currently experiencing a whole other world and isn't at the same level of understanding, and to try and project your own expectations onto them as to how something should be done is very conflicting. To slow down and ask, "How are they currently seeing this..." "What part are they not understanding.." "How can I communicate this in a way they'll understand.." has been really insightful.

And I always go too far in explaining things and maybe overcomplicating it for kids, you can see the look in their face when you've done that haha..

I manage that same error with adults. Man, sometimes I just need to shut up and let them work.

 

[Balrog]

A good teacher, IMNSHO, will motivate the student to not just learn a technique, but to try to excel with the technique. The teacher will use the praise-correct-praise methodology, will set direct goals, will create a positive mood and tone for the class, and a host of other positive influences.

 

[UnelaborateYetComplex]

What makes a good teacher to me?
1.Their history (experience)
2. Patience, and willingness to answer any questions or concerns any student has in an articulate way that is also a valid answer (able to be backed up by a demonstration).
3.The longest a master has held a student at a particular belt level or rank tells you indirectly how dedicated they are about their pursuit of being a martial arts instructor.
4. The amount of non-fighting, but rather life wisdom-oriented information any master can impart upon any student or in front of their class speaks miles about their character. (In essence, wisdom would be my #1 for my pursuit of a good master)
5. Attentiveness; A master's ability to carefully point out and correct mistakes when the practitioner doesn't know it; The ability for a master to be able to correct and student and assuming the student isn't a know-it-all, they say, "Yes sir", or "Thank you sir" with a smile, assuring they're happy about being corrected and now know the proper technique.
Sorry for the extra 2, but In just over two years at my dojang, I can say for a fact that I'm a better man because of my master, and my master's senior-rank, instructor-level black belts, and I'm only learning more information from these role models as my young brain expands.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

A good teacher, IMNSHO, will motivate the student to not just learn a technique, but to try to excel with the technique.

Agree! A good teacher should teach "principle" and not just "technique".

If a student has learned the principle, he can map it into as many techniques. For example, if a student has learned the principle of "use kick to set up punch". Even if the student just learns "front kick, straight punch", he should be able to figure out:

- front kick, uppercut,
- front kick, hammer fist,
- roundhouse kick, hook punch,
- side kick, spin back fist,
- ...

Another example can be "1 step 3 punches". If a student has learned "jab, cross, jab", he should also figure out by himself:

- hook, back fist, uppercut,
- jab, hook, hook,
- jab, cross, uppercut,
- ...

 

[Buka]

AMEN.


Agreed. If I need to do use a synchronized group exercise (grappling styles don't tend to do as much of that), I'll find a pace everyone who's participating can work with. If one person is significantly slower, they'll be pushed to a pace that causes useful mistakes (often, their biggest challenge is simply that they aren't going fast enough to build any real flow), or I'll give them a partner to work on something else (perhaps even the same exercise at a different pace). Or just split off the most competent folks to work separately. Or something. Gotta keep the room moving, not just the slowest person. (This same challenge pops up all the time in corporate training I do. Same answer most of the time.)

I don't go by the slowest person's pace, and I don't go by the fastest person's pace, I go by the pace I want at that particular time. But, there's a caveat to all this in regards to this thread. Some are teaching little kids. [those are those loud, sticky things, right?] I never taught little kids. At least not in my own dojo.

Oh, God, what a horrible thought.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I don't go by the slowest person's pace, and I don't go by the fastest person's pace, I go by the pace I want at that particular time. But, there's a caveat to all this in regards to this thread. Some are teaching little kids. [those are those loud, sticky things, right?] I never taught little kids. At least not in my own dojo.

Oh, God, what a horrible thought.

I'm with you on that. I've taught them at my instructor's school. I don't see myself ever offering actual kids' classes, unless someone else wants to teach them.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

3.The longest a master has held a student at a particular belt level or rank tells you indirectly how dedicated they are about their pursuit of being a martial arts instructor.
4. The amount of non-fighting, but rather life wisdom-oriented information any master can impart upon any student or in front of their class speaks miles about their character. (In essence, wisdom would be my #1 for my pursuit of a good master)

I'm not sure how holding a student at a particular level is a necessarily a good indicator of a good instructor. I've seen it work both ways, with some poor instructors pushing students to do advanced techniques before they have mastered the basics, as well as some instructors who hold a student back so long that they lose interest at the lack of progress.

As to your point about wisdom, I think there needs to be a distinction between a Master and a Teacher. I wouldn't expect a Teacher to give me life advice in the middle of a class, nor would I particularly wish it unless it was relevant to the training we were doing. However, I would expect a Master to give me such advice at any time. Then again, I have a pretty different definition of Master compared to others in the Martial Arts world.

 

[Buka]

I'm with you on that. I've taught them at my instructor's school. I don't see myself ever offering actual kids' classes, unless someone else wants to teach them.

Some years ago I was in L.A. teaching at Billy Blanks' old dojo. Busiest gym, any kind of gym, I've ever been in. After nine hours in the dojo I had a break and was going to sit down and stretch out for an hour. Billy says, "go upstairs and assist Sandy with her class". So up I go.

It was a class of three and four year olds. Ya, right. I turn around and walk right down the stairs. Billy's waiting for me at the bottom of the stairs, points and says, "get back up there." I tell him he sucks badly, he laughs, and back up I go.

Sandy explains it's only a thirty minute class, sometimes twenty five, it's just playing Karate games, let them have fun and not get hurt. Longest twenty five minutes I can remember. But they had fun, and only one kid peed his gi.

But....sometimes I still have nightmares.

 

[Martial D]

A good teacher can take what they know and understand and make someone else know and understand.

Whether the skill passed on is worth learning or effective at all is a whole different question.

 

[Buka]

What a great thread, so many good posts. Can't wait to come back from work and read and write some more.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Some years ago I was in L.A. teaching at Billy Blanks' old dojo. Busiest gym, any kind of gym, I've ever been in. After nine hours in the dojo I had a break and was going to sit down and stretch out for an hour. Billy says, "go upstairs and assist Sandy with her class". So up I go.

It was a class of three and four year olds. Ya, right. I turn around and walk right down the stairs. Billy's waiting for me at the bottom of the stairs, points and says, "get back up there." I tell him he sucks badly, he laughs, and back up I go.

Sandy explains it's only a thirty minute class, sometimes twenty five, it's just playing Karate games, let them have fun and not get hurt. Longest twenty five minutes I can remember. But they had fun, and only one kid peed his gi.

But....sometimes I still have nightmares.

It's okay. It's over now. You're safe.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

A good teacher can take what they know and understand and make someone else know and understand.

Whether the skill passed on is worth learning or effective at all is a whole different question.

Great distinction, MD. That's what makes a really good teacher. If it's also useful information (for the purpose of the student), then it's a good teacher for that student.

 

[_Simon_]

Some years ago I was in L.A. teaching at Billy Blanks' old dojo. Busiest gym, any kind of gym, I've ever been in. After nine hours in the dojo I had a break and was going to sit down and stretch out for an hour. Billy says, "go upstairs and assist Sandy with her class". So up I go.

It was a class of three and four year olds. Ya, right. I turn around and walk right down the stairs. Billy's waiting for me at the bottom of the stairs, points and says, "get back up there." I tell him he sucks badly, he laughs, and back up I go.

Sandy explains it's only a thirty minute class, sometimes twenty five, it's just playing Karate games, let them have fun and not get hurt. Longest twenty five minutes I can remember. But they had fun, and only one kid peed his gi.

But....sometimes I still have nightmares.

Ah wow Billy Blanks! I'd love to read your autobiography if it ever comes out, such varied training and teaching experiences you've had!

Haha and yeeeah 3 and 4 year old, that's tough! I love teaching in the kids classes, but I think the youngest is 5 years old, maybe 4. Still, very very challenging at times haha.

What a great thread, so many good posts. Can't wait to come back from work and read and write some more.

Yeah it's a great idea for a thread, some great thoughts!

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Ah wow Billy Blanks! I'd love to read your autobiography if it ever comes out, such varied training and teaching experiences you've had!

Haha and yeeeah 3 and 4 year old, that's tough! I love teaching in the kids classes, but I think the youngest is 5 years old, maybe 4. Still, very very challenging at times haha.

Yeah it's a great idea for a thread, some great thoughts!

Yeah, Buka knows everyone who has a listing in Wikipedia, I think. And he eats a lot, especially with famous people. And he's been punched or kicked by a lot of famous people, too - usually not while eating, though.

 

[_Simon_]

Yeah, Buka knows everyone who has a listing in Wikipedia, I think. And he eats a lot, especially with famous people. And he's been punched or kicked by a lot of famous people, too - usually not while eating, though.

Hehehe! True!


Ah and another thought, teachers are often idolised and held in an almost 'god-like' status, and often have alot of projected unrealistic expectations upon them from students. And alot of students get disappointed when they don't marry up to be this absolute pinnacle of knowledge, but instructors are people too and not perfect. So I think a great part of this is how the student frames and hold the instructor in their perception, realising that whilst they have a great deal to impart and to be open to their teachings, that they can't teach them everything. I reckon a good teacher will recognise that, and won't pretend to know more than they actually know. Goes with previous posts in this thread, that they're honest about what they know and don't know.

But a big part is how the student holds the teacher, and also how they click with them. Some 'good teachers' are great for some students, and others just do not suit some students, and therefore those students would probably suit better to move on to find an instructor that suits them. Like when I was teaching piano, some students from other teachers were transferred over to me from other teachers who the students just didn't 'click with', when they came to me it was a better fit and they loved the lessons and we're able to learn, and vice versa!

Which is why I'm excited to start looking around for a new style (which is very very soon once all is in order hehe), previously I didn't really feel I had a choice (when I did, but didn't realise it at the time), but now I can really test this out and see which teacher and dojo I really click with.

 

[Buka]

Let me ask you guys something about kids, for those who teach the young ones. I know every kid/person is different, but for the five, six, and seven year olds, how long is their typical class? And what do they seem to enjoy doing the most, what seems to really grab their attention?