What is your plan for re-opening?

[geezer]

CDC says avian killed about a million and 100,000 in the US. But is did mis-speak; I meant the swine flu of '08-'09.

That sounds totally wrong, whether you are talking about "Bird Flu" or "Swine Flu".

There are several strains of "Avian Influenza" that affect humans, with H5N1 being the one most commonly referenced. It can be very deadly, but only a relative handful of cases have been reported worldwide and none, I believe, in the US. Check this: Avian Flu Fast Facts - CNN

Now regarding the "Swine Flu" or H1N1 outbreak of 2009, the CDC estimate that anywhere from 151,575 - 579,400 people worldwide may have died, but in the US, the total number of cases was 60,8 million with 12,469 deaths. In addition, unlike the current Covid-19 pandemic, there were antiviral therapies and a vaccine was produced late in the flu season that, while too late to help much in the initial wave, gave some assurance that we were prepared against a possible recurrence the next year. Check this source:
2009 H1N1 Pandemic

So, back in your post No. 246, you stated: "I find it truly bizarre how we went through the avian flu pandemic in 2008 and didn't miss a beat. And it has never went away but you never hear about that..."

Then you followed up with post 267 where you stated "CDC says avian killed about a million and 100,000 in the US.", and then corrected yourself to say you meant the "Swine Flu" outbreak of '09. Again the actual figure is 12,469 deaths in the US. With Covid-19, we are still in the middle of an ongoing pandemic and the US death toll is conservatively already at 100,000 and climbing. Does this clear up your confusion?

 

[geezer]

BTW - as a follow up to my last post, I don't wish to appear preachy, and I'll be the first to say that I can get my facts wrong. I do it all the time. When I do, please correct me! ...and if you can provide a link to a source, I'd be grateful. Personally, I think that if more people would make a habit of going to several solid sources and fact check some of the crazy stuff people say, we as individuals, and collectively as a country, would be a lot better off! ...Same applies to a lot of BS you hear in the Martial Arts!

Besides guys, fact checking isn't hard these days with a few google-searches to legit sources. Researching used to be an arcane art and a total pain, back when I was a kid in school (in the late 60s and 70s). To write a research paper, you had to get down to the public library, or even go over to the university library and start searching for stuff in vast rows of file tables called "card catalogues" each with with dozens of massive drawers full of thousands of index cards. Or, with the help of a librarian, you could go down to the basement and wade through stacks of periodicals and look through endless rolls of micro-fiche film read on little projection devices, and after hours of looking, ...more often than not, you never found what exactly you wanted.

Yet oddly enough, today with such easy access to information, most people never check anything, or worse, only seek out sources that they already agree with, regardless of reliability. Now that's just ... kinda sad.

 

[Flying Crane]

BTW - as a follow up to my last post, I don't wish to appear preachy, and I'll be the first to say that I can get my facts wrong. I do it all the time. When I do, please correct me! ...and if you can provide a link to a source, I'd be grateful. Personally, I think that if more people would make a habit of going to several solid sources and fact check some of the crazy stuff people say, we as individuals, and collectively as a country, would be a lot better off! ...Same applies to a lot of BS you hear in the Martial Arts!

Besides guys, fact checking isn't hard these days with a few google-searches to legit sources. Researching used to be an arcane art and a total pain, back when I was a kid in school (in the late 60s and 70s). To write a research paper, you had to get down to the public library, or even go over to the university library and start searching for stuff in vast rows of file tables called "card catalogues" each with with dozens of massive drawers full of thousands of index cards. Or, with the help of a librarian, you could go down to the basement and wade through stacks of periodicals and look through endless rolls of micro-fiche film read on little projection devices, and after hours of looking, ...more often than not, you never found what exactly you wanted.

Yet oddly enough, today with such easy access to information, most people never check anything, or worse, only seek out sources that they already agree with, regardless of reliability. Now that's just ... kinda sad.

I agree with you. And there are also fact checking websites that do a pretty transparent job of researching this stuff and presenting their findings. Unfortunately some people are seeing political agenda in these sites. Well...whadaya gonna do?

 

[geezer]

Unfortunately some people are seeing political agenda in these sites.

No doubt they are right. Anything that contradicts what you already believe is clearly a conspiracy! So be sure and stick with googling only those who already agree with you. And remember, the deep state in collusion with the illuminati and their elite pawns wants you to buy into their dangerous agenda. Heck, they've even convinced people that the earth isn't flat!

Not me though. I've already got my tickets to the upcoming Global Flat-Earth Conference.

 

[jobo]

I agree with you. And there are also fact checking websites that do a pretty transparent job of researching this stuff and presenting their findings. Unfortunately some people are seeing political agenda in these sites. Well...whadaya gonna do?

people generally dont deal in facts, at best they are vague approximation of facts, but commonly they are either wrong or so inaccurate that they mislead, or even more commonly just their opinion.

telling people there facts are infact nonfactual makes them become irritable and occupationally very cross and start throwing around accusations of pedantry. its almost like they want to be wrong

last year, i had a heated telephone call with my nephews teacher, who had marked his home work wrong

she had told the kids the days get longer in the summer time, and that is just very wrong, they get longer in the winter and spring and shorter in the summer, yet they put buffoons who cant work a Calendar in charge of kids education, she accused me of pedantry which is the wrong use of pedantry as i told her

 

[skribs]

I agree with you. And there are also fact checking websites that do a pretty transparent job of researching this stuff and presenting their findings. Unfortunately some people are seeing political agenda in these sites. Well...whadaya gonna do?

I figured I'd come back into this. There are facts, and there are opinions based on those facts. For example, it is a fact that anywhere from 40-80% of people who have the virus are asymptomatic. The article that I read on this used that fact, and their opinion can be summarized as "this makes the disease even scarier, because you can get it from someone who didn't even know they had it! And this means it's more important to continue quarantines until we can develop a cure."

Meanwhile, I look at that data, and I see "40-80% of the people who get the virus have no reaction, meaning this virus is significantly less dangerous than people think. We should be allowed to re-open, because these quarantines are causing economic and emotional depressions."

It's the same fact. It's a different interpretation of the fact that's political. And this is why fact checker sites are a problem for any political issue. If they're just reporting a fact, that's fine. If they're reporting facts, and then telling you what those facts mean, that's an opinion. You can't fact-check an opinion. But a fact-checker will present it as such. And people on either side of any political issue like to think that their side is common sense. I've been in several debates (like this one) where people assume their opinion is fact, and then try to say "it's not even a political issue." But it is when there are different opinions and policies are being made. People assume that because their opinions are based on facts, everyone else's ideas are stupid. But that's because there are different conclusions that can be drawn from the same set of facts.

Putting it in context of martial arts, what is the best way to respond when your opponent strikes? Is it:

• Counter-strike to interrupt them
• Block and grab their strike and attack the limb
• Advance and clinch so they can't keep striking, and then take them down
• Retreat and stay out of their range
• Side-step and try to circle behind them

There is no right or wrong answer in that list. All of those will depend on multiple factors. All of those will sometimes work, and sometimes not. There is a "fact" that your opponent is striking, but there are a lot of potential responses, and you sometimes won't know which was the right response until afterward. Some people may see some strategies as dumb, or some as the obvious pick. I've seen lots and lots of arguments based on that. And in these arguments, everyone firmly believes that they are right. Yet, we all have access to the same facts. We've just made our own opinions on which facts matter, which ones are irrelevant, and how to use those opinions to form our arguments.

It's the same here. There are many facts about this virus that make me think continued measures are done out of irrational fear or political power. My parents believe our Governor is trying to make small businesses fail, so they'll vote for more socialist reform to help them recover. I don't know if that's true, or if it's just that he's scared of the virus.

To be clear - the most recent facts that help me form this opinion come from a site that's against re-opening. I just interpreted their facts different than they did. I interpreted it the same as my parents did. (Fun fact: their church asked who wants to come back and who doesn't. Most of the 50+ parishioners want to come back, while most in the 30-39 age range want to continue social distancing). I interpreted it the same as my best friend, who isn't a doctor, but is in a very intellectually-demanding job at a multi-billion dollar tech company. I've interpreted it the same as my sister and her husband, who majored in medicine. The same as several doctor and nurse friends that I know from Taekwondo. The same as most people who work at my hospital, including surgeons and ER docs. The overwhelming majority of people in my life (especially those with high intelligence, wisdom, or specific skills relating to medicine) are for re-opening.

Then I come here and basically get told that I'm a bad person and a conspiracy theorist because I have a different opinion than you? Who the hell are you? My opinion is just as valid as yours. If people want to social distance, I respect them. But I'm not evil because I want my life back.

 

[jobo]

I figured I'd come back into this. There are facts, and there are opinions based on those facts. For example, it is a fact that anywhere from 40-80% of people who have the virus are asymptomatic. The article that I read on this used that fact, and their opinion can be summarized as "this makes the disease even scarier, because you can get it from someone who didn't even know they had it! And this means it's more important to continue quarantines until we can develop a cure."

Meanwhile, I look at that data, and I see "40-80% of the people who get the virus have no reaction, meaning this virus is significantly less dangerous than people think. We should be allowed to re-open, because these quarantines are causing economic and emotional depressions."

It's the same fact. It's a different interpretation of the fact that's political. And this is why fact checker sites are a problem for any political issue. If they're just reporting a fact, that's fine. If they're reporting facts, and then telling you what those facts mean, that's an opinion. You can't fact-check an opinion. But a fact-checker will present it as such. And people on either side of any political issue like to think that their side is common sense. I've been in several debates (like this one) where people assume their opinion is fact, and then try to say "it's not even a political issue." But it is when there are different opinions and policies are being made. People assume that because their opinions are based on facts, everyone else's ideas are stupid. But that's because there are different conclusions that can be drawn from the same set of facts.

Putting it in context of martial arts, what is the best way to respond when your opponent strikes? Is it:

• Counter-strike to interrupt them
• Block and grab their strike and attack the limb
• Advance and clinch so they can't keep striking, and then take them down
• Retreat and stay out of their range
• Side-step and try to circle behind them

There is no right or wrong answer in that list. All of those will depend on multiple factors. All of those will sometimes work, and sometimes not. There is a "fact" that your opponent is striking, but there are a lot of potential responses, and you sometimes won't know which was the right response until afterward. Some people may see some strategies as dumb, or some as the obvious pick. I've seen lots and lots of arguments based on that. And in these arguments, everyone firmly believes that they are right. Yet, we all have access to the same facts. We've just made our own opinions on which facts matter, which ones are irrelevant, and how to use those opinions to form our arguments.

It's the same here. There are many facts about this virus that make me think continued measures are done out of irrational fear or political power. My parents believe our Governor is trying to make small businesses fail, so they'll vote for more socialist reform to help them recover. I don't know if that's true, or if it's just that he's scared of the virus.

To be clear - the most recent facts that help me form this opinion come from a site that's against re-opening. I just interpreted their facts different than they did. I interpreted it the same as my parents did. (Fun fact: their church asked who wants to come back and who doesn't. Most of the 50+ parishioners want to come back, while most in the 30-39 age range want to continue social distancing). I interpreted it the same as my best friend, who isn't a doctor, but is in a very intellectually-demanding job at a multi-billion dollar tech company. I've interpreted it the same as my sister and her husband, who majored in medicine. The same as several doctor and nurse friends that I know from Taekwondo. The same as most people who work at my hospital, including surgeons and ER docs. The overwhelming majority of people in my life (especially those with high intelligence, wisdom, or specific skills relating to medicine) are for re-opening.

Then I come here and basically get told that I'm a bad person and a conspiracy theorist because I have a different opinion than you? Who the hell are you? My opinion is just as valid as yours. If people want to social distance, I respect them. But I'm not evil because I want my life back.

but that can NOT be a fact, a fact being something that is verifiable, by in this case by science
it may be a projection based on facts, it is a fact that someone has done a projection,, but projections are not facts, because they are projections

projection with a range of accuracy between 40 and 80 % are little more than a guess.

how bad does the data have to be to have that margin of error ?

 

[dvcochran]

That sounds totally wrong, whether you are talking about "Bird Flu" or "Swine Flu".

There are several strains of "Avian Influenza" that affect humans, with H5N1 being the one most commonly referenced. It can be very deadly, but only a relative handful of cases have been reported worldwide and none, I believe, in the US. Check this: Avian Flu Fast Facts - CNN

Now regarding the "Swine Flu" or H1N1 outbreak of 2009, the CDC estimate that anywhere from 151,575 - 579,400 people worldwide may have died, but in the US, the total number of cases was 60,8 million with 12,469 deaths. In addition, unlike the current Covid-19 pandemic, there were antiviral therapies and a vaccine was produced late in the flu season that, while too late to help much in the initial wave, gave some assurance that we were prepared against a possible recurrence the next year. Check this source:
2009 H1N1 Pandemic

So, back in your post No. 246, you stated: "I find it truly bizarre how we went through the avian flu pandemic in 2008 and didn't miss a beat. And it has never went away but you never hear about that..."

Then you followed up with post 267 where you stated "CDC says avian killed about a million and 100,000 in the US.", and then corrected yourself to say you meant the "Swine Flu" outbreak of '09. Again the actual figure is 12,469 deaths in the US. With Covid-19, we are still in the middle of an ongoing pandemic and the US death toll is conservatively already at 100,000 and climbing. Does this clear up your confusion?

Hmm, I am not certain who is confused. I clarified that I mis-spoke in a post to Gerry. The numbers are straight off the CDC website, I am not stating anything new just repeated published facts.
I knew a vaccine was found but do not recall the timing of it relevant to when the outbreak began.
What I mean by "did not miss a beat" is the country was not shut down nor the economy crashed. I do not see or remember any inference to political motivations or issues with other countries.
Does this clear up Your confusion?

 

[skribs]

but that can NOT be a fact, a fact being something that is verifiable, by in this case by science
it may be a projection based on facts, it is a fact that someone has done a projection,, but projections are not facts, because they are projections

projection with a range of accuracy between 40 and 80 % are little more than a guess.

how bad does the data have to be to have that margin of error ?

In that case it was several different data points. For example, one batch of people 80% of those who were positive were asymptomatic, in another batch of people 40% were asymptomatic. Regardless, it's a fact that a large number of people who have the virus are asymptomatic.

 

[Flying Crane]

I figured I'd come back into this. There are facts, and there are opinions based on those facts. For example, it is a fact that anywhere from 40-80% of people who have the virus are asymptomatic. The article that I read on this used that fact, and their opinion can be summarized as "this makes the disease even scarier, because you can get it from someone who didn't even know they had it! And this means it's more important to continue quarantines until we can develop a cure."

Meanwhile, I look at that data, and I see "40-80% of the people who get the virus have no reaction, meaning this virus is significantly less dangerous than people think. We should be allowed to re-open, because these quarantines are causing economic and emotional depressions."

It's the same fact. It's a different interpretation of the fact that's political. And this is why fact checker sites are a problem for any political issue. If they're just reporting a fact, that's fine. If they're reporting facts, and then telling you what those facts mean, that's an opinion. You can't fact-check an opinion. But a fact-checker will present it as such. And people on either side of any political issue like to think that their side is common sense. I've been in several debates (like this one) where people assume their opinion is fact, and then try to say "it's not even a political issue." But it is when there are different opinions and policies are being made. People assume that because their opinions are based on facts, everyone else's ideas are stupid. But that's because there are different conclusions that can be drawn from the same set of facts.

Putting it in context of martial arts, what is the best way to respond when your opponent strikes? Is it:

• Counter-strike to interrupt them
• Block and grab their strike and attack the limb
• Advance and clinch so they can't keep striking, and then take them down
• Retreat and stay out of their range
• Side-step and try to circle behind them

There is no right or wrong answer in that list. All of those will depend on multiple factors. All of those will sometimes work, and sometimes not. There is a "fact" that your opponent is striking, but there are a lot of potential responses, and you sometimes won't know which was the right response until afterward. Some people may see some strategies as dumb, or some as the obvious pick. I've seen lots and lots of arguments based on that. And in these arguments, everyone firmly believes that they are right. Yet, we all have access to the same facts. We've just made our own opinions on which facts matter, which ones are irrelevant, and how to use those opinions to form our arguments.

It's the same here. There are many facts about this virus that make me think continued measures are done out of irrational fear or political power. My parents believe our Governor is trying to make small businesses fail, so they'll vote for more socialist reform to help them recover. I don't know if that's true, or if it's just that he's scared of the virus.

To be clear - the most recent facts that help me form this opinion come from a site that's against re-opening. I just interpreted their facts different than they did. I interpreted it the same as my parents did. (Fun fact: their church asked who wants to come back and who doesn't. Most of the 50+ parishioners want to come back, while most in the 30-39 age range want to continue social distancing). I interpreted it the same as my best friend, who isn't a doctor, but is in a very intellectually-demanding job at a multi-billion dollar tech company. I've interpreted it the same as my sister and her husband, who majored in medicine. The same as several doctor and nurse friends that I know from Taekwondo. The same as most people who work at my hospital, including surgeons and ER docs. The overwhelming majority of people in my life (especially those with high intelligence, wisdom, or specific skills relating to medicine) are for re-opening.

Then I come here and basically get told that I'm a bad person and a conspiracy theorist because I have a different opinion than you? Who the hell are you? My opinion is just as valid as yours. If people want to social distance, I respect them. But I'm not evil because I want my life back.

Yeah, I’m not gonna rehash it with you.

 

[skribs]

Yeah, I’m not gonna rehash it with you.

That's kind of my point. We have access to the same facts. We have different interpretations of those facts. I don't think less of you for your interpretation.

I think less of those who think less of others for having their own interpretation.

 

[geezer]

Hmm, I am not certain who is confused. What I mean by "did not miss a beat" is the country was not shut down nor the economy crashed. I do not see or remember any inference to political motivations or issues with other countries.
Does this clear up Your confusion?

^^^^ Did you even read my bolded stats next to the ones you quoted? Did you check the CDC link I provided as the source for those stats? In the 2009 H1N1 outbreak, there were only 12,469 deaths reported altogether in the US. The level of contagion and mortality were a fraction of what we are facing now with Covid-19, where we've already passed 100,000 deaths in the US to date. That's why the country was not shut down then, and why it was shut down this spring.

Your apparent refusal to acknowledge this fact is the only thing that leaves me confused. What am I missing, DV?

 

[Flying Crane]

That's kind of my point. We have access to the same facts. We have different interpretations of those facts. I don't think less of you for your interpretation.

I think less of those who think less of others for having their own interpretation.

I think it’s not worth getting into again. When I made that post I was actually thinking of someone else not from these forums. It wasn’t until I made the post that I realized I was probably gonna year from you about it. But it’s not worth arguing about it again.

 

[geezer]

On a separate, but related topic-- I just had a phone conversation with my old kung-fu brother and training partner who will be returning permanently to my area after moving to Cali about 9 years ago. This is good news for me as I will again have someone locally to train with in the particular branch of Wing Chun I practice. Also, he had a few very loyal personal students who may "return to the fold" now that their old sifu is coming home.

This could revitalize our local group ...except ...How safe will it be for us to start training Wing Chun again, a very close-range art in which there is a lot of person to person physical contact in training?

During our phone conversation, I speculated that our core group could probably train chi-sau and the other contact aspects of the art without excessive risk if we were very careful, checked our temperatures prior to training, wore masks when working close together, and washed our hands and arms (or at least used hand sanitizer) immediately before and after training. Not a perfect solution, but worth considering.

To this, my old training partner responded, "Naw, I don't wear masks. That's the kinda BS I've had to put up with here in California and I'm done with it." Apparently, I'd touched a nerve, so I didn't draw him out further on the subject at that time.

The weird thing is, I've heard similar responses from a couple of other people I train with. And the only thing they seem to have in common is that they all have very conservative political outlooks. My question is why common sense safety measures in training ...stuff that is really comparable to wearing gloves, mouthguards, and cups when sparring... has to be politicized. I never heard anybody in my Escrima class refuse to wear eye protection when doing knife drills with training knives because of their political or religious affiliation!

So what the bloody hell is going on???

 

[Flying Crane]

On a separate, but related topic-- I just had a phone conversation with my old kung-fu brother and training partner who will be returning permanently to my area after moving to Cali about 9 years ago. This is good news for me as I will again have someone locally to train with in the particular branch of Wing Chun I practice. Also, he had a few very loyal personal students who may "return to the fold" now that their old sifu is coming home.

This could revitalize our local group ...except ...How safe will it be for us to start training Wing Chun again, a very close-range art in which there is a lot of person to person physical contact in training?

During our phone conversation, I speculated that our core group could probably train chi-sau and the other contact aspects of the art without excessive risk if we were very careful, checked our temperatures prior to training, wore masks when working close together, and washed our hands and arms (or at least used hand sanitizer) immediately before and after training. Not a perfect solution, but worth considering.

To this, my old training partner responded, "Naw, I don't wear masks. That's the kinda BS I've had to put up with here in California and I'm done with it." Apparently, I'd touched a nerve, so I didn't draw him out further on the subject at that time.

The weird thing is, I've heard similar responses from a couple of other people I train with. And the only thing they seem to have in common is that they all have very conservative political outlooks. My question is why common sense safety measures in training ...stuff that is really comparable to wearing gloves, mouthguards, and cups when sparring... has to be politicized. I never heard anybody in my Escrima class refuse to wear eye protection when doing knife drills with training knives because of their political or religious affiliation!

So what the bloody hell is going on???

<<sigh>>

 

[geezer]

Then I come here and basically get told that I'm a bad person and a conspiracy theorist because I have a different opinion than you? Who the hell are you? My opinion is just as valid as yours. If people want to social distance, I respect them. But I'm not evil because I want my life back.

Ah ...I may have skimmed parts of this thread. I didn't get which conspiracy theory you were accused of. No matter. And I, for one, don't think you are evil for wanting your old life back.

Or ...wait a minute! ....You could be evil ...depending on just what kind of life you were living before....

 

[dvcochran]

^^^^ Did you even read my bolded stats next to the ones you quoted? Did you check the CDC link I provided as the source for those stats? In the 2009 H1N1 outbreak, there were only 12,469 deaths reported altogether in the US. The level of contagion and mortality were a fraction of what we are facing now with Covid-19, where we've already passed 100,000 deaths in the US to date. That's why the country was not shut down then, and why it was shut down this spring.

Your apparent refusal to acknowledge this fact is the only thing that leaves me confused. What am I missing, DV?

You are not missing anything.

 

[dvcochran]

I figured I'd come back into this. There are facts, and there are opinions based on those facts. For example, it is a fact that anywhere from 40-80% of people who have the virus are asymptomatic. The article that I read on this used that fact, and their opinion can be summarized as "this makes the disease even scarier, because you can get it from someone who didn't even know they had it! And this means it's more important to continue quarantines until we can develop a cure."

Meanwhile, I look at that data, and I see "40-80% of the people who get the virus have no reaction, meaning this virus is significantly less dangerous than people think. We should be allowed to re-open, because these quarantines are causing economic and emotional depressions."

It's the same fact. It's a different interpretation of the fact that's political. And this is why fact checker sites are a problem for any political issue. If they're just reporting a fact, that's fine. If they're reporting facts, and then telling you what those facts mean, that's an opinion. You can't fact-check an opinion. But a fact-checker will present it as such. And people on either side of any political issue like to think that their side is common sense. I've been in several debates (like this one) where people assume their opinion is fact, and then try to say "it's not even a political issue." But it is when there are different opinions and policies are being made. People assume that because their opinions are based on facts, everyone else's ideas are stupid. But that's because there are different conclusions that can be drawn from the same set of facts.

Putting it in context of martial arts, what is the best way to respond when your opponent strikes? Is it:

• Counter-strike to interrupt them
• Block and grab their strike and attack the limb
• Advance and clinch so they can't keep striking, and then take them down
• Retreat and stay out of their range
• Side-step and try to circle behind them

There is no right or wrong answer in that list. All of those will depend on multiple factors. All of those will sometimes work, and sometimes not. There is a "fact" that your opponent is striking, but there are a lot of potential responses, and you sometimes won't know which was the right response until afterward. Some people may see some strategies as dumb, or some as the obvious pick. I've seen lots and lots of arguments based on that. And in these arguments, everyone firmly believes that they are right. Yet, we all have access to the same facts. We've just made our own opinions on which facts matter, which ones are irrelevant, and how to use those opinions to form our arguments.

It's the same here. There are many facts about this virus that make me think continued measures are done out of irrational fear or political power. My parents believe our Governor is trying to make small businesses fail, so they'll vote for more socialist reform to help them recover. I don't know if that's true, or if it's just that he's scared of the virus.

To be clear - the most recent facts that help me form this opinion come from a site that's against re-opening. I just interpreted their facts different than they did. I interpreted it the same as my parents did. (Fun fact: their church asked who wants to come back and who doesn't. Most of the 50+ parishioners want to come back, while most in the 30-39 age range want to continue social distancing). I interpreted it the same as my best friend, who isn't a doctor, but is in a very intellectually-demanding job at a multi-billion dollar tech company. I've interpreted it the same as my sister and her husband, who majored in medicine. The same as several doctor and nurse friends that I know from Taekwondo. The same as most people who work at my hospital, including surgeons and ER docs. The overwhelming majority of people in my life (especially those with high intelligence, wisdom, or specific skills relating to medicine) are for re-opening.

Then I come here and basically get told that I'm a bad person and a conspiracy theorist because I have a different opinion than you? Who the hell are you? My opinion is just as valid as yours. If people want to social distance, I respect them. But I'm not evil because I want my life back.

Skribs, don't think you could have said that better.

 

[jobo]

In that case it was several different data points. For example, one batch of people 80% of those who were positive were asymptomatic, in another batch of people 40% were asymptomatic. Regardless, it's a fact that a large number of people who have the virus are asymptomatic.

so this is two studies that significantly disagree with each other, that you have amalgamated and called a fact.

when its just as likely that one it totally and utterly wrong or they are both in error and the truth lies elsewhere

 

[Dirty Dog]

so this is two studies that significantly disagree with each other, that you have amalgamated and called a fact.

when its just as likely that one it totally and utterly wrong or they are both in error and the truth lies elsewhere

Actually, no. They're both right. Because there is more than one strain of the virus. The one that struck the west coast of the US has been less contagious and had a lower mortality rate. The one that hit the east has been more virulent and more deadly. Multiple strains are also believed to be one cause of the high number of false negatives with the COVID swab tests. We've diagnosed most of our cases not with the swab, but by the elevations in things like ferritin, d-dimer, CRP, lactate dehydrogenase, etc.