What Is Your Martial Art Worth To You?

[MadMartigan]

So this question has been on my mind alot recently. As a surgery to repair my torn ACL (caused by a poor landing from a jumping kick) becomes more of a certainty, it got me thinking about the trades we make to participate in this lifestyle.

These trades can take the form of time away from family during the evenings to teach/train, injuries caused by hard sparring that may put you off from work, to the physical disfiguration caused by the body conditioning required to excel at breaking, or cauliflower ear from grappling.

We all have a line in the sand where we'd have to ask the question, "is it worth it"? Is being able to break a stack of bricks worth risking the use of my hand, or is competing at a high level at full contact worth the risk of CTE or broken bones?

We may not consciously ask these questions, but we answer them with our actions.

For me, while accidents happen, I choose long term health over pride. I draw the line at anything that is likely to have a long term adverse effect on my body. I already have several chips taken out of my nuckles and other bones, so things like breaking are in my rear view mirror.
Obviously I could screw up and hurt myself again tomorrow, but the higher risk activities are out for me.

Where is your line where you have to decide whether that next step is worth it to you, or what you're willing to trade for your martial art?

 

[Jared Traveler]

Certainly risk tolerance changes with age and experience. In my youth I felt indestructible and after receiving a few chronic injuries you reconsider this. Essentially you realize your risk appetite doesn't match your risk capacity. In other words you are more vunerable than you originally thought.

Often causing your risk apatite to change. Now you have two paths A. Risk Avoidance (stop practicing or participating, or stop training with that person) or B. Risk Mitigation (for me that materialized by tapping early to save my neck at times).

As Clint Eastwood said, "A man has to know his limitations." I think learning these about yourself is a good and healthy thing. It might even make you more likely to use your words in a confrontation instead of your hands.

Of course this risk mitigation might instead involve reducing your vulnerabilities, by gaining more knowledge about defense for example.

But without risk taking we can never discover these things.

 

[skribs]

I think there are two separate questions one must ask themselves. The first is the risk of injury related to martial arts training, and the second is the risk of injury related to physical activity.

Martial arts training can carry a higher risk of specific injuries, depending on what art you do. This is one reason why I like Taekwondo and Karate as a safer alternative to the sport striking arts. Yes, Muay Thai matches are more realistic of a fight than a Taekwondo tournament, but that realism also includes additional risk of CTE. This is why I made the thread in the Taekwondo forum complaining about adult black belts being allowed to go for knockouts, because now we're adding that risk back in. What's the point in learning self-defense if that pursuit is what hurts me?

If you want to compete in striking and are risk-averse for head injuries, then Taekwondo and Karate are probably your best bets. (In this case I'm using the proverbial "you" to mean whoever is making the decision, and not aiming at any specific person).

If you want to be safe, and are trying to choose between being a competitive TKD fighter or a hobbyist in Muay Thai, now there's the question of training to the level of a competitive athlete in a less-realistic, less-risky competition; compared to training under people who have that experience, but not getting that experience yourself. Or to be a hobbyist in both, and end up learning technique and skill that is above the untrained and below the competitive, no matter what art you train.

The other is risks associated with training in general. It doesn't matter whether its martial arts or not. Activity comes with risk. The funny thing is that inactivity also comes with risk. Risk of obesity, lack of strength, lack of coordination. Lack of exercise is also associated with depression and other mental issues. I know someone who recently broke her arm while she was out walking the dogs. I've rolled my ankle walking on uneven grass. There's even record of someone dying from playing baseball.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

This is something I've talked about from time to time here. I've had folks here challenge that anyone taking a class for self-defense purposes should be competing in something like MMA. I disagree. While competing in something like that is highly beneficial for that purpose, for a lot of folks, it just doesn't fit their priorities. If they're in sales or customer service, even having a black eye might be detrimental to their income or career.

And a lot of folks choose not to risk CTE as they perceive it (I think there's a significant risk of it in falling if it's not done right, but that's rarely considered).

And then there are a lot of folks who'd like to become more competent at fighting back, but don't see a need for that to happen quickly. So they choose what looks interesting (that they also judge to be reasonably effective) and put time into it as fits their other priorities (which often is just 2-5 hours a week, total).

I think we could all come to some reasonable agreement on some practices that are most likely to quickly develop fighting skills. I think we could all come to some reasonable agreement on some practices that are most likely to lead to injury. And there'd be an overlap between those. Some folks have priorities on one side of that Venn diagram, some on the other.

For me, I was willing to risk more injury in days past. I have the sore joints from dislocations all over the place, and none of those had me even considering stopping. I also have some neck issues, likely from all the falls - some of which weren't pretty. I'm 53 now, and won't take nearly the same risks, because I won't heal nearly as well (nor as quickly).

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I think this thread and Bill's thread here are pretty much getting at the same point.

Everything has a cost and each of us decides what price is worth paying for what we want to achieve in the martial arts. It's not just the risks of injury. There's also time invested that could have gone towards family, career, or other interests. There's money spent that could go towards other purposes. There's energy, effort, pain, and discomfort.

There's also a balance to juggle between short term and long term goals. For some who pursue the goal of becoming a high-level professional fighter, the price may be injuries which limit their ability to continue training into old age. I have a friend who is a 2x world champion boxer. Objectively, that's a much higher level of martial arts accomplishment than anything I will ever do. However, he's 4 years younger than I am and has had surgeries and replacements for both shoulders, both hips, and both knees. I rate my chances of still being training and learning martial arts into my 70s and 80s as way higher than his.

I train martial arts because they bring joy to my life. They make me happy, they help me make friends, they help me be the sort of person that I want to be. (They also make me better at fighting, but since it's been about 20 years since I had a fight in the ring and longer since I had a fight in the streets, that's not such a big deal.)

Right now, I spend about 8 hours per week on the mats, with 1-2 hours of that being sparring time, and spend another couple of hours outside the gym studying video. I spend just enough time on physical conditioning to be in pretty good shape for the average 58 year old with a desk job, but in terrible shape for any kind of competitive athlete. I spar just hard enough to get regular bumps and bruises, but minimize the odds of concussions and broken bones. This seems to be my current optimum schedule for my best quality of life. I don't get burned out from training, I don't get too many injuries, I have fun, and I still have time left over for my family and other interests. If I trained less, I would miss it. If I wanted to become a serious competitor, I would have to train longer and harder, and I probably wouldn't enjoy it so much.

That optimum level of training is different for everyone. Some people just want to show up and get a fun workout for a couple of hours per week. Some people want to become world champions. As long as they get something out of their training which makes their life better and they are realistic about what they are accomplishing, it's all good.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Biggest thing to remember is that the worth/time &effort/risk reward can change at any point, suddenly, or gradually for pretty much any reason. And can go in either direction.

Which is fine so long as you're aware of it, but it's a good way to stay aware of yourself if you notice you suddenly go from 1 hour a week to 8 (or if you normally go every day, and only go once a week for a while), what might have changed.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

It used to be that whenever I had to lay off anything in our dojo, it was due to an injury or illness and I counted the days until I could get back at it full-strength. Broken things healed. A busted toe, a bruised rib, a broken hand. It was just a matter of time.

But time passes and some things don't heal up so well after awhile. Heart conditions that require lifelong medication; it's not just a matter of waiting to get better, it's aiming for 'as good as you're going to get'.

There are certainly things we do in our dojo that I no longer participate in. Some of them are simply because I cannot do them; my body won't. Some are because I've been advised by my cardiologist not to - blood thinners and bruises don't go well together. However, there are plenty of things I can concentrate on which improve my understanding of the art I study, so I have lots to work on. I will never be a champion, and that's OK with me.

Fortunately, everyone in my dojo knows me, knows I'd be training harder if I could, and indeed, they make sure I don't push myself too hard. No one insists that I try harder or exert myself more, or do things my body simply won't permit any longer.

Everyone ages at a different rate. Eventually infirmity will claim us all if we survive long enough to get old. My sensei is nearly 10 years older than me, but he's in great shape and hasn't slowed in the slightest. But I spent my 50s feeling pretty much on top of my game too, and many people don't get that long. I've seen people in great shape in their 70s. I won't be one of them. Oh well.

 

[MetalBoar]

And a lot of folks choose not to risk CTE as they perceive it (I think there's a significant risk of it in falling if it's not done right, but that's rarely considered).

Having done a lot of high falls in my life, at least one of which left me with some permanent injury, this is something I also worry about. I agree, that when done properly, falling is probably pretty safe. Unfortunately, depending on who's throwing you, or taking you to the ground, you may not be able to fall properly regardless of your skill level. I think that participating in competition increases the risk of falling related injuries, including CTE, and I know that training with people of insufficient skill/knowledge can do so. On the other hand, deeply ingrained break falling technique has saved me from far more injuries than all of my other fighting skills combined.

The other is risks associated with training in general. It doesn't matter whether its martial arts or not. Activity comes with risk. The funny thing is that inactivity also comes with risk. Risk of obesity, lack of strength, lack of coordination. Lack of exercise is also associated with depression and other mental issues. I know someone who recently broke her arm while she was out walking the dogs. I've rolled my ankle walking on uneven grass. There's even record of someone dying from playing baseball.

Yep, I think this is a really important point. Not so much for people on this forum maybe, as I hope that most of us are doing some MA, but for the general public. If you just sit around you're going to fall apart a lot quicker than if you are physically active. I think there's reasonable evidence to say that, outside of fairly extreme examples (professional boxing, rugby, and American football come to mind), your overall risk profile is a lot lower being active than being sedentary, almost regardless of the type of activity.

 

[Zombocalypse]

I am a powerlifter before I am a martial artist. I sincerely believe focusing on powerlifting with zero martial arts training is only going to help my powerlifting gains. I believe "cardio kills gains", as the popular saying goes.

However, I need to learn how to fight. It's about bloody time. I'm in my thirties, man, and I need to be able to defend myself. Pure powerlifting is just vanity at this point.

 

[Balrog]

...snip...

Where is your line where you have to decide whether that next step is worth it to you, or what you're willing to trade for your martial art?

I'm 74. I have spent literally more than half my life training in Taekwondo. I've had ACL and meniscus repairs, and now my left knee is giving me hell.

I've had to seriously look at my capabilities lately Sparring is pretty much out. I still teach it because I know about strategy, maneuvering, combos, etc. I just can't demonstrate it as well as I used to. Same with jump kicks. I'll teach them, but to demo them, I'll ask one of the young hotshot 1st Degrees to get in the air and show them how it's done.

But weapons, forms and spontaneous self-defense? That's my joy these days. Seeing the "light bulb" moment when a student gets it is so incredibly rewarding.

And when I can't do Taekwondo any more, I'll switch to Tai Chi. I will do some form of martial arts until I can't crawl out onto the mat any more. And that will probably be the day after I die.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

And when I can't do Taekwondo any more, I'll switch to Tai Chi. I will do some form of martial arts until I can't crawl out onto the mat any more. And that will probably be the day after I die.

This reminds me of something one of my old sensei's used to say. We went from being sensei/student, to co-students under the same sensei, and would work together a lot. I was slowly beating him more in sparring, and he told me for like a year that once he could no longer beat me, he'd quit kempo and go do tai chi.

That dojo closed down before we reached that point, and last I heard he was still training kempo somewhere else.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

And when I can't do Taekwondo any more, I'll switch to Tai Chi.

he'd quit kempo and go do tai chi.

If you do TKD, or Kempo slow and coordinate your move with your breath, you don't need to do Taiji and you will get the same health benefit from your TKD, or Kempo.

I'm 74.

I'm 1 year older than you. I still prefer to do my SC, or long fist slow than to do my Taiji (even if Taiji was the 1st MA system that I have trained since I was 7). The reason is simple.

When I train

- SC, or long fist slow, I still feel young, health, and strong.
- Taiji slow, I feel old, sick, and weak.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

what you're willing to trade for your martial art?

I don't think MA is suitable for everybody.

You have to be crazy and treat yourself as a bouncing ball in order to enjoy this kind of training - to be thrown on the ground daily.

 

[Rich Parsons]

So this question has been on my mind alot recently. As a surgery to repair my torn ACL (caused by a poor landing from a jumping kick) becomes more of a certainty, it got me thinking about the trades we make to participate in this lifestyle.

These trades can take the form of time away from family during the evenings to teach/train, injuries caused by hard sparring that may put you off from work, to the physical disfiguration caused by the body conditioning required to excel at breaking, or cauliflower ear from grappling.

We all have a line in the sand where we'd have to ask the question, "is it worth it"? Is being able to break a stack of bricks worth risking the use of my hand, or is competing at a high level at full contact worth the risk of CTE or broken bones?

We may not consciously ask these questions, but we answer them with our actions.

For me, while accidents happen, I choose long term health over pride. I draw the line at anything that is likely to have a long term adverse effect on my body. I already have several chips taken out of my nuckles and other bones, so things like breaking are in my rear view mirror.
Obviously I could screw up and hurt myself again tomorrow, but the higher risk activities are out for me.

Where is your line where you have to decide whether that next step is worth it to you, or what you're willing to trade for your martial art?

It will take some for me.
It has saved my life and worse injuries.
So I do PT & work to target where I was before. (* Never going to get there *)
Yet it is a target.