What is "Traditional Ninjutsu"?

[kwaichang]

By our definition, it is the arts taught by the current Grandmaster, Dr. Maasake Hatsumi. It also includes those groups which split off from Dr. Hatsumi but still remain true to the core ideals.

Please see the Ninja FAQ for more in-depth descriptions.

There are three main organizations. The Bujinkan, Genbukan and Jinenkan.
This forum is for the discussion of the history, techniques, concepts and ideas that relate directly to these groups.

Well the Japanese Government has *certified* the 900 yr old scrolls that Dr. Hatsumi has, proving his (Tokakure) lineage. No other school (ryu) can say the same.
The Koga-Ryu, went extinct when it's last grandmaster didn't pass on his scrolls or endorse a ligimate successor so that knocks out a bunch of people who claim that school as theirs.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

Well the Japanese Government has *certified* the 900 yr old scrolls that Dr. Hatsumi has, proving his (Tokakure) lineage. No other school (ryu) can say the same.
The Koga-Ryu, went extinct when it's last grandmaster didn't pass on his scrolls or endorse a ligimate successor so that knocks out a bunch of people who claim that school as theirs.

What if I told you that the Togakure ryu lineage includes people from both Iga and Koga?

 

[kwaichang]

What if I told you that the Togakure ryu lineage includes people from both Iga and Koga?

Of course it does. They once belonged to the same Ryu but split off to form their own.

I've been and seen. Thanks for your reply.

 

[AbsZero]

Here is nice picture, from '71.
I know it's not as long ago as beginning of Togakure Ryu, but it's nice to se Takamatsu sensei with Hatsumi sensei and his students all in one place...

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times] First row - Ishizuka Shihan, Takamatsu Soke, Hatsumi Soke[/FONT]​

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times] Second row - Newspaper reporter, Tanemura Shihan , Oguri Shihan, Manaka Shihan[/FONT]​

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times] Third row - Kobayashi Shihan, Seno Shihan[/FONT]​

 

[jks9199]

Here is nice picture, from '71.
I know it's not as long ago as beginning of Togakure Ryu, but it's nice to se Takamatsu sensei with Hatsumi sensei and his students all in one place...

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times] First row - Ishizuka Shihan, Takamatsu Soke, Hatsumi Soke[/FONT]​

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times] Second row - Newspaper reporter, Tanemura Shihan , Oguri Shihan, Manaka Shihan[/FONT]​

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times] Third row - Kobayashi Shihan, Seno Shihan[/FONT]​

Just an interesting observation...

Three faces stand out from the others in that photo. Takamatsu, Hatsumi, and guy in the back row on the right. The guy second from the right in the middle row has some of the same thing -- but not as much.

Don't know what it means, don't know that it means anything at all... but it's interesting.

 

[rdonovan1]

But Dux is actually mentioned in the Senzo Tanaka SSDI info that comes up. Bring it up again, and under "Tools," click "View Post-em."

They must have changed that since then because it is no longer accessible on their website.

It is interesting though that there actually was a Senzo Tanaka. While I like the movie BloodSport which is supposed to be based upon Frank Dux's life I doubt very seriously that he ever really did study with Senzo Tanaka at all. I personally think that he is full of it, but I can't prove it because I really don't know for sure.

All that I know is that the movie itself is great for motivating oneself to really want to learn and to really want to seek out the truth.

 

[shirobanryunotora]

By our definition, it is the arts taught by the current Grandmaster, Dr. Maasake Hatsumi. It also includes those groups which split off from Dr. Hatsumi but still remain true to the core ideals.

Please see the Ninja FAQ for more in-depth descriptions.

There are three main organizations. The Bujinkan, Genbukan and Jinenkan.
This forum is for the discussion of the history, techniques, concepts and ideas that relate directly to these groups.

Hi again-have gone through much of this threads data-have a question regarding the definition parameter used. Wouldn't it be more apt to include all of prev.Soke Takamatsu's lineages and teachings rather than only those handed down through Soke Hatsumi?(unless Soke Hatsumi got them all? in which case ignore this question) Soke Takamatsu "gathered" many lineages and teachings together as such and imo deserves full recognition for the perpetuation of all the arts collectively etc-or am i missing the point? Just a thought-till the next rr

 

[Chris Parker]

Hatsumi Sensei appears to have gotten all of the "ninjutsu related" systems, and that appears to have been a large focus of his training under Takamatsu Sensei. Other people seemed to receive primarily lines of Takagi Ryu and Kukishin Ryu (samurai systems, for want of a better term), with a few such as Ueno Sensei recieving a few such as Koto Ryu as well. Fukumoto Sensei is said to have been the only other person to have recieved Menkyo Kaiden in Togakure Ryu under Takamatsu, and Sato Kinbei's site (managed by his daughter) indicates possible Gyokko Ryu training, although it's rendered as Tama Tora Ryu (same kanji, different reading), leading some to think that if he did recieve it, he didn't pass it on, as the simple knowledge of how to correctly read the kanji isn't shown there.

 

[EWBell]

Hatsumi Sensei appears to have gotten all of the "ninjutsu related" systems, and that appears to have been a large focus of his training under Takamatsu Sensei. Other people seemed to receive primarily lines of Takagi Ryu and Kukishin Ryu (samurai systems, for want of a better term), with a few such as Ueno Sensei recieving a few such as Koto Ryu as well. Fukumoto Sensei is said to have been the only other person to have recieved Menkyo Kaiden in Togakure Ryu under Takamatsu, and Sato Kinbei's site (managed by his daughter) indicates possible Gyokko Ryu training, although it's rendered as Tama Tora Ryu (same kanji, different reading), leading some to think that if he did recieve it, he didn't pass it on, as the simple knowledge of how to correctly read the kanji isn't shown there.

The traditions Sato Kinbei sensei received from Takamatsu Sensei are Kukishin Ryu Bojutsu, Takagi Yoshin Ryu (Ishitani-den), and Gikan Ryu Koppojutsu. The mention of Gyokko Ryu (Tama Tora Ryu) is in the list of schools that Takamatsu Sensei taught, but as far as I know Sato Kinbei Sensei never received any license in Gyokko Ryu.

 

[blackswordshinobi2014]

. Dr. Maasake Hatsumi. is Traditional Ninjutsu there before age of Hatsumi that the shinobi no mono or ninja had another way that was Traditional Ninjutsu spying scouting and misdirection intelligent gething was normal ninjutsu at the time there also part of samurai cutler and military

 

[Chris Parker]

Okay, let's translate this…

Dr Masaaki Hatsumi is the head of a number of ryu-ha that lay claim to being traditional ninjutsu, or are related to such. These methods and traditions are interspersed with more "standard" bushi (warrior) traditions, which is where the bulk of the combative methods come from. Historically speaking, the concept of ninjutsu was more in line with information gathering, spying, sabotage etc, and ninjutsu was just part of a larger martial skill-set and methodology. Then, there were the groups associated with Iga and Koga (Kohka) who combined both martial methods and the aforementioned espionage in their approach.

None of this is news, nor is it anything that hasn't been said here before, of course.