What is the purpose of a Taekwondo form?

[skribs]

I'm not really sure how to explain this, but I think that you are trying to categorize and define things a lot more than they were intended to.

I'm looking at different ways forms are used and different benefits you can get out of them, and trying to look at the techniques in the forms from those perspectives.

 

[Shawchert]

For me personally forms are a great muscle memory. I am learning what each technique is used against in an imaginary opponent. Like a mid section block and a kick right after would be me defending and then countering that attack. So it helps with muscle memory.

It helps with discipline as well. You learn to do that form and continue to do it. with ITF you are required to remember all your previous forms before that one (I'm not sure exactly what the rules for that are in WT and ATA). So you have to practice, over and over, put your foot in the right spot and your techniques the right way without blowing through it just to get it done and over with

and it helps me with my power, I don't just limply do it. I make sure when I do my forms they are done the way I was taught and with the power needed to defend myself from a real opponent. It can certainly help with tension. Of course nothing beats conditioning drills!! but that's just how you can take a hit as opposed to how you tense yourself at the right time!

I know everyone has different opinions on how a form should be seen as but this is me.

 

[skribs]

For me personally forms are a great muscle memory. I am learning what each technique is used against in an imaginary opponent. Like a mid section block and a kick right after would be me defending and then countering that attack. So it helps with muscle memory.

So what do you imagine when you're doing the techniques you find in the higher level forms?

 

[skribs]

I'm busy getting ready to bake, so will have to come back for the rest - wanted to give a thought on this one. I wouldn't say those applications come from the forms, but that they are applications of movements found in the forms. They require other information, and the link isn't necessary.

For comparison, in NGA, this:

is taught as an application of this:

You'll notice much of the movement - indeed the actual method of applying the arm bar - isn't in the Classical form. But the principle is. So we can't at all say the Classical form teaches that application. You'd never get to that by just practicing the Classical form. But studying the Classical form will reinforce something about it (in the NGA example, the principle of the lock - in the TKD example, a part of the movement and perhaps the balance and transition with it).

As I said, if the link doesn't work for you, just ignore it. Use the form for what it works for, for you. You can absolutely learn the "applications" without the tie to the form (just as I could - and sometimes do - teach the wrap-around Arm Bar without the Classical form).

I tried out that first move in Taekwondo class today. It really impressed my classmates.

 

[Shawchert]

So what do you imagine when you're doing the techniques you find in the higher level forms?

I'm pretty certain from every form I have learned, I also learn why its being used, so I don't see why my answer would change from it's previous state. I am only a blue belt (I have not changed my photo been quite busy these last few months) and I have a good 5 months to go at least to be an advanced belt, though I've seen the forms and still think the same thing. I can see great benefit in continuing to do each and every form I learn.

 

[skribs]

I was watching this video about what weapons 4-armed creatures would use:

In his discussion starting at 3:30 about how much individual control people have over 2 hands, and how our hands tend to play off each other, and doing different things with each hand can be something that takes a lot of effort (i.e. patting the head and rubbing your belly). I wonder if this part of the reason for a lot of those techniques that I am having trouble finding an application for: to give both hands something to do so you train each hand individually.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I was watching this video about what weapons 4-armed creatures would use:

In his discussion starting at 3:30 about how much individual control people have over 2 hands, and how our hands tend to play off each other, and doing different things with each hand can be something that takes a lot of effort (i.e. patting the head and rubbing your belly). I wonder if this part of the reason for a lot of those techniques that I am having trouble finding an application for: to give both hands something to do so you train each hand individually.

That's a possibility (the purpose in the last sentence, not the 4-armed people). There are things I put in forms just to force people to work on something - no direct application, just building a base ability for use.

 

[Earl Weiss]

[QUOTE="gpseymour, post: 1942864] There are things I put in forms just to force people to work on something - no direct application, just building a base ability for use.[/QUOTE]
Saw a movie with something like this once. "Wax On Wax off" Learn how to move. . Then see how you can apply it.

 

[DaveB]

I was watching this video about what weapons 4-armed creatures would use:

In his discussion starting at 3:30 about how much individual control people have over 2 hands, and how our hands tend to play off each other, and doing different things with each hand can be something that takes a lot of effort (i.e. patting the head and rubbing your belly). I wonder if this part of the reason for a lot of those techniques that I am having trouble finding an application for: to give both hands something to do so you train each hand individually.

Have you video of the forms you are looking at?

 

[DaveB]

Found this on taeguk applications.

Note the various changes made to correct the distancing.

 

[dvcochran]

Found this on taeguk applications.

Note the various changes made to correct the distancing.

I would like to see how he follows the double middle strike at 2.33. It has always been one of those moves I do not see as practical application.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I would like to see how he follows the double middle strike at 2.33. It has always been one of those moves I do not see as practical application.

Are you talking about the double uppercut to the belly? It's application as a strike should be obvious, but it can also be a push, to create distance.

 

[dvcochran]

Are you talking about the double uppercut to the belly? It's application as a strike should be obvious, but it can also be a push, to create distance.

Yes, I get that it is a strike. The landing with one foot behind and the fact that the double uppercut to the middle leaves the head totally open leaves questions about it's application. I can see where the forward motion with the whole body should makes the strikes powerful enough to knock the opponent back so sure, it could work. The next logical step to me would be to step back and set the back foot, away from a front facing opponent. I know the move is in one or more of our Poomsae but a drawing a blank on which one(s) at the moment.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Yes, I get that it is a strike. The landing with one foot behind and the fact that the double uppercut to the middle leaves the head totally open leaves questions about it's application. I can see where the forward motion with the whole body should makes the strikes powerful enough to knock the opponent back so sure, it could work. The next logical step to me would be to step back and set the back foot, away from a front facing opponent. I know the move is in one or more of our Poomsae but a drawing a blank on which one(s) at the moment.

Crossing the feet could be a way to close distance and, added with the momentum of the jump, lets you uncross the stance and keep moving forward. Especially if you're doing it as a push.

 

[dvcochran]

Crossing the feet could be a way to close distance and, added with the momentum of the jump, lets you uncross the stance and keep moving forward. Especially if you're doing it as a push.

I think of a really good driving uppercut, especially when I am on one foot would at least cancel out my forward motion if not backwards slightly. That is why I said I see the next move being a step back. Also, your raised foot is already behind the other. The move is in Hansoo as you start up the first angle. The next move is a step back to a low block.

 

[skribs]

Found this on taeguk applications.

Note the various changes made to correct the distancing.

At 2:10 there's a collective "ooohhhh" from the audience. Now, I can hear this one of two ways. One way is "oh, that looks like it hurts." But the way I heard it is "oh, that's what that is!"

Because I haven't seen a light knee strike get that kind of reaction from people who know what it is. That's part of the issue for me. I think that for a lot of students, just like myself, these movements seem to be more abstract. Even if you're thinking "block" or "grab" but you're not really sure how to apply it, or when you would apply it, it's just a movement. And that makes it harder to remember and harder to understand why you work on the details that you do.

Don't get me wrong. I like doing the forms. I'm just getting to a point (as are others at my rank at my dojang) where we're not really sure what we get out of learning more forms, instead of more direct application. There's been discussion in other threads on learning the techniques, and it starts with drilling with no resistance, but the resistance has to move up. Forms are the absolute least resistance that you can get.

All of us in that group (of senior black belts who want to move on from forms) take Hapkido at my school, too. That class is entirely dedicated to self defense training, and the more advanced you get the better you're able to incorporate the curriculum together. The further you get into the curriculum, the easier it is to make sense of everything because you have more tools available and you find more places where your tools will apply.

I feel the further I make it in Taekwondo, the harder it is to make sense of everything, because you're being given a lot of techniques and then left to your own devices to figure out where they go, or if they're even supposed to go anywhere.