What is the excitement in belts?

[charyuop]

we're all very glad that you've risen to a point where you don't need outside motivation to pursue your training. for most mortals, though, the belts are a very helpful tool.

First of all. I don't think I have used any sarcasm with my question nor with my following opinions, thus I don't think I deserve your sarcasm. If you don't like my position just don't read the thread. Said that lemme tell you how "risen" I am.

I work because I have to. I do Tai Chi because I LOVE it. Do I need motivation for the job? Well yes, my family is one. Do I need motivation to do Tai Chi? Heck no, I have alot of fun. Whenever I walk every 3-4 steps I throw in a Tai Chi step or something related to it. You know what gives me more motivation (I would define more satisfaction than motivation) during a class? The teacher coming up to me correcting a wrong angle or posture, she gives me something to work on.
I don't like Golf and I would need motivations to play it...that's why I don't play it. Am I not mortal for choosing to do what I like and not to do what I don't like? Well then we can all be non mortals...

If I was a teacher between having 100 students in front of me who needs a motivation to learn coz they are not fully interested/attracted by the Art and having 1 student who is there to learn because he loves it, I would go 100% with 1 student.

 

[Ceicei]

First of all. I don't think I have used any sarcasm with my question nor with my following opinions, thus I don't think I deserve your sarcasm. If you don't like my position just don't read the thread. Said that lemme tell you how "risen" I am.

I work because I have to. I do Tai Chi because I LOVE it. Do I need motivation for the job? Well yes, my family is one. Do I need motivation to do Tai Chi? Heck no, I have alot of fun.

Love of something or for someone IS a motivator. I train in Kenpo because I love it. That is enough motivation for me.

- Ceicei

 

[bushidomartialarts]

first of all, charyuop, i apologize. there was no call for sarcasm.

my poor manners aside, i'm glad that you are motivated by love of the art and not by a colored cloth to wrap around your waist.

i also think a lot of people would agree with you that, given the choice between 1 student like you and 99 students who need to be pushed, they'd choose 1 student like you.

personally, i think it's my responsibility as an instructor to serve those other 99 and help them become students like you. were i to only work with the already motivated, i'd be doing a disservice to the world and neglecting my duty as a teacher.

belts are one of the best tools there are motivate students until they motivate themselves.

 

[still learning]

Hello, Read this some place (maybe from Judo-Sensi Kano). The color of belts where made because so many students coming to so many classes and different places of teaching and schools, it was hard to know who were the advance students and beginners.

To help recognize a person progress, the color of the belts where made. Remember there was only two colors, white and black (black to show who was the Sensi's).

With growing students and many different schools forming all other the world this help Sensi's with there teaching of the arts.

Belts were design to keep the top close (not hold the pants) because of the design of the GI's.

Today many people who do not believe in Belts...misunderstand it's purpose. Also so many people put there "ego's in the colors too..?

Ranks or colors is kinda like going from 1st grade school to 2nd grade and so on. Is there a better way? Most colleges give certicates and lots of martial arts schools presents certicates too! (with every step/colors).

At a school (which has many branches all other the USA), moving from one school or training at Seminars helps the Instructors know how to teach the students (white belts may be taught a llittle different from Black belts).

After all it is a SCHOOL of learning,belts are just grades (Nothing else)

Every school has A-plus students,B- grade students, c-grade students.

Same of all BLACK BELT'S around the whole world some are excellent
maritial artist and some cannot last 15 seconds in the ring.

Just my thoughts...Do it get grade for this? maybe B plus or F (fighting hard on this) ........Aloha

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

not my intent to pick a fight, but this is something i'm really passionate about.

buddha, you've got it square 180 degrees backwards.

motivation comes before a solid curriculum. if you don't have motivated students, your curriculum could have come down from god hisownself and it won't matter -- only a tiny fraction of your students will stick around long enough to see your beautifully constructed and elegant masterwork.

Motivation is the job of the instructor, not the syllabus. The syllabus should be setup to teach as effectively as possible, but its the instructor who has to encourage people to learn that syllabus.
What is taught should not be affected by the instructor, how its taught howver is whats up to him.

i'm a psychologist by training and instructor by profession. my specialty was in educational psychology. there isn't any evidence out there to support that people learn better without visible, attainable, short-term goals.

Look back at my posts. I said several times, people learn better when information is broken into smaller chunks. So either you're agreeing with me, but didn't actually read my posts properly, or are disagreeing with me and have made a typo.

in short: a very small part of the population has it in them to shoot for black belt as a singular goal. as instructors, it's our duty to show them how to subdivide that goal into smaller, attainable chunks. that's what belts are for.

I said that its better to break into smaller chunks. I am arguing in favour of the belt sytstem. You're agreeing with me.

the fact that it gives us a handy way to structure what we want to teach is important. that framework is incredibly useful to instructors. but it's not nearly as important as keeping our students motivated until they're ready to motivate themselves.

And thats the job of the instructor, not the art.

 

[charyuop]

belts are one of the best tools there are motivate students until they motivate themselves.

That makes sense and I see the good point of belts in it.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

Motivation is the job of the instructor, not the syllabus. The syllabus should be setup to teach as effectively as possible, but its the instructor who has to encourage people to learn that syllabus. What is taught should not be affected by the instructor, how its taught howver is whats up to him.

....etc. (no disrespect intended, it was just a fairly long post)

Yup, it's definitely the job of the instructor to motivate students. And, as you and I agree on, breaking of information into small manageable chunks is the most effective way to teach. So the belts create a great framework to hang a syllabus on. I absolutely agree with you on that score.

It goes further than that, though. Consistent, short-term reinforcement is motivating. A good belt system provides that motivation.

As you say, belts can be used as a teaching tool. I have a strong belt-based curriculum in my school. But there are many studios that don't have a belt-based curriculum -- rotating requirement structure, simple time in rank requirements, even just lazy design. There's no evidence to suggest that students in good programs like that don't do well. So we're back to the motivation.

I think what most people in this thread seem to object to is how some students appear to need that outside motivation. I mean, if they were 'real' martial artists why would they need it? I think I've addressed that earlier in the thread.

Now, once we get to black belt ranks it's a different story. You get so much political nonsense based on who was given what degree by whom and for what. Really, by the time you're tying on fourth dan or so you really should be over that stuff. I agree completely at that level that belts are taken far too seriously.

 

[Cirdan]

Yup, it's definitely the job of the instructor to motivate students.
(..) breaking of information into small manageable chunks is the most effective way to teach.

Probably why Itosu invented the Pinan Katas in the first place. Learning them before moving on to the more advanced gives a much better sense of progress than banging your head against Naifanchi and Kushanku for six years.

 

[bluemtn]

I find belt ranks to be not all that important in the long run. It helps in determining who's been there for whatever length of time, who might be more helpful with certain questions, etc., and also is a confidence booster, and a "report card". Achieving the next belt for me, is like reaching mini- goals, and also mastering the basic moves as you continue on. Yes, people do get hung up on, "I'm x- belt, and you're only y- belt!" bit. It should be more about the training, not what you wear.

 

[funnytiger]

First of all. I don't think I have used any sarcasm with my question nor with my following opinions, thus I don't think I deserve your sarcasm. If you don't like my position just don't read the thread. Said that lemme tell you how "risen" I am.

I work because I have to. I do Tai Chi because I LOVE it. Do I need motivation for the job? Well yes, my family is one. Do I need motivation to do Tai Chi? Heck no, I have alot of fun. Whenever I walk every 3-4 steps I throw in a Tai Chi step or something related to it. You know what gives me more motivation (I would define more satisfaction than motivation) during a class? The teacher coming up to me correcting a wrong angle or posture, she gives me something to work on.
I don't like Golf and I would need motivations to play it...that's why I don't play it. Am I not mortal for choosing to do what I like and not to do what I don't like? Well then we can all be non mortals...

If I was a teacher between having 100 students in front of me who needs a motivation to learn coz they are not fully interested/attracted by the Art and having 1 student who is there to learn because he loves it, I would go 100% with 1 student.

Yeah, I caught that bit of sarcasm too. I never need to "rise" beyond the need for belts. It was never instilled in me to begin with. I love learning and strive to learn more everyday. Maybe that's something we should be teaching our youth. Don't expect a cookie everytime you do something good. Be happy with yourself for doing well.

Ranks or colors is kinda like going from 1st grade school to 2nd grade and so on. Is there a better way? Most colleges give certicates and lots of martial arts schools presents certicates too! (with every step/colors).

I don't quite see your analogy here.

Just because a school doesn't have a belt system doesn't mean it doesn't have a heirarchy which is what 1st grade, 2nd grade, etc. represents. A heirarchy of acheivement. Colored belts/sashes are like receiving a certificate from graduating from each one of those grade levels. (I don't think you should be rewarded for doing what you should be doing anyway, but that's a different argument all together.) Its a little patronizing if you ask me...

I think this is definitely a subject matter that a lot of people are sensitive about. Some see the benefits, some don't. Its going to be the "chicken or the egg" argument for the MA world. lol

- ft

 

[Xue Sheng]

I'm sorry but to be honest I do not see the big deal here.

Some style use belts for rank some don’t.

I trained Jujitsu and TKD they had belts and I had no problem with that. I train CMA now and none of the schools that I have been associated with have had belts and I have no problem with that. But if you think there is no hierarchy just because there are no belts you are mistaken.

If some one enjoys a style that awards rank via belts, stripes, gi color, certificate great I am happy for them. If someone enjoys training in a style that does not do any of the above mentioned great I’m happy for them.

It is the enjoyment of their chosen art that matters not the belt of lack thereof. So someone is a white belt in Karate and someone is a beginner in Wing Chun, what is the difference? Other than style differences.

And as I said before the belt does not matter, it is the person wearing it that makes the difference.

Some times you fell like a nut sometimes you don’t Almond joy has nuts Mounds don’t…. it’s the same thing to me.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

Some times you fell like a nut sometimes you don’t Almond joy has nuts Mounds don’t…. it’s the same thing to me.

well put. i think we're all getting our panties in too much of a twist over this. me more than most. thanks for throwing in the realit check.

 

[still learning]

Hello, In most schools, it is just a level of achievments. Each color represents a step in your learning progress. 1st grade than you move on to the 2nd level and so on.

This helps the Instructors/Sensi's with each individual progress, (just a measurement tool. More so with very large schools/systems and so on..

In our Kempo schools each person must learn a certain amount of techniques,physcial requirements,learn certain kata's, and other requirement,testing and if pass, given a new color belt, than they can move on to more advance materials.

It is like going to school,except every one trains the same time, many times the class is broken into smaller groups. The color of belts helps the Instructor with each person progress and level of teaching. Belts are just tool to use to for measurement.

Remember every student in each colors or ranks will not always be equal...some may be Excellent ..some will B-grades,some C-grades but they all pass the test...

Having a Black belt does not mean you are equal to "Bruce Lee"...

Some schools pefer not to award or use color or ranks, free world. NO right or wrong here. ...just choices to use or not to use.

Remember Teach is consider a RANK....so is a supervisor ....Aloha

NO titles? who is in charge? ""Um George bush"

 

[funnytiger]

NO right or wrong here. ...just choices to use or not to use.

Agreed. That's what it boils down to. Period.