What is Self Defense? (Kenpo-Jiu Jitsu)

[The Kai]

Thats it kell??? "Oh Monk Quest Champ"? Congrats on your new job. Good going dude...

The book is a good one for the time frame. Can you imagine being the son of a mom, who was the daughter of a man, who was a Samurai Warrior and treated like that in the post war era???

I think imagine would be a important concept here

Yet he taught his disguised art anyway,

What evidence do you have that he taught anything different from what was presented in the book??

had to make a living owning brothels, where did he get that money? It was ok to have them in those days and time...

I don't think "has" to make a living off a brothel, it is a choice, I don't think that brothels were ever legal, or moral in Hawaii ( I may be wrong)

 Think...He had wavy hair not hair as straight as a rapier...Think, lets stick ourselves in that time frame and see what might have happened. He probably considered himself a Ronin Warrior and the 21st descendent...Hmmm what if he really was???

Hmm, let's see...

 

[The Kai]

Back to the book...I just was watching a "doce pares" DVD the Filipino arts have a lot of the foot work that is in Mitose's book where did that come from some say Japan some say China some say it went back and forth

In my understanding all FMA footwork is based off the triangle, either stepping in or back. A real strong tendency to seek the angle.
In the book, his footwork seems to be linear. Actually standing ontop the other guy-look at the nearness of thier stances. In fact on the page posted earlier, his foot starts crossing behind himself on a step through

Simiarities
1.) They both had 2 legs
2.) they both had to move one foot at a time

 

[James Kovacich]

Back to the book...I just was watching a "doce pares" DVD the Filipino arts have a lot of the foot work that is in Mitose's book where did that come from some say Japan some say China some say it went back and forth

In my understanding all FMA footwork is based off the triangle, either stepping in or back.

"Probably" most FMA use the triangle. Serrada does but the Larga Mano that I've been exposed to "so far" has been linear.

 

[The Kai]

The Doce Pares that i was exposed to emphasised the triangle. I Imagine largo mano being a longer range system would not

 

[kelly keltner]

OK. I keep reading these things about "rep" points. I'm guessing this means reprimand points. What are they, where are they and why should I care about them?

Thanks.


-John

They're reputation points and you can give them to a specific post/poster by clicking on the little scales of justice in the right hand corner of the post.
Should you care about them? NAH. They're just a little fun thing that I don't take too seriously anymore. Some people use them as a control/discipline device. Some folks here can even hit you for 5 or more points for one ding depending on where in Martialtalk caste system they sit. So back to the topic.
If the pictures in What is self-defense were added at the behest of the publisher, and the publisher/s were Mitose's students. Does that mean that Mitose's students were the ones who convinced/pressured him to put in pictures?

One more thing on the rep points issue. If you go to your users CP it will show you your rep points/score. Although you won't know who gave you what unless they signed it.

kelly

 

[GAB]

The Doce Pares that i was exposed to emphasised the triangle. I Imagine largo mano being a longer range system would not

Hi Kai,

The triangle is a part of the octagon which we all know is what the mon is in Kosho...
The ninth position is in the center of the octagon you have 8 triangles...

Largo mano still uses the same only larger... Rather then one step or a half step it might be one long and one short or skip step... Still the triangles, then of course you have the right and the left and the forward and rear like a cross..

Old stuff look at the I ching in China and the hexagram and triagrams look for the simularities...The answer is that Hanshi Bruce was given the keys Todd.

Regards, Gary

 

[The Kai]

I had the impression that Mitose was the publisher, while the students fronted the money.

How could you realistically publish a book on the martial arts with no pictures?

 

[James Kovacich]

The Doce Pares that i was exposed to emphasised the triangle. I Imagine largo mano being a longer range system would not

Yes, so far, I've found that it "comes and goes" in the FMA. You learn the triangle and and when you spar, it all goes "out the window."

 

[James Kovacich]

Hi Kai,


Old stuff look at the I ching in China and the hexagram and triagrams

Regards, Gary

FMA in general kinda seems related to the Chinese arts.

 

[kelly keltner]

I had the impression that Mitose was the publisher, while the students fronted the money.

How could you realistically publish a book on the martial arts with no pictures?

I guess that would depend on what you were trying to emphasize. I was always taught if you understand the philosiphy the technique becomes self-explanitory. Then again I guess someone will come up with a counter expanation for this also.

kk

 

[GAB]

I had the impression that Mitose was the publisher, while the students fronted the money.

How could you realistically publish a book on the martial arts with no pictures?

Todd he started out wanting to publish something like the bible.
Words, stories, When he went to publish it, he was told he needed pictures etc...

He wanted to get away from the war arts...

Todd I thought you had been in Kosho and learned some of this stuff...

Look at the SKSKI site and read about the mon and what it represents, have you forgotten what you learned or am I wrong on the idea that you were in the KAI???

Regards, Gary

 

[The Kai]

Then why did he title it "What is Self defense"? That would certainly get in the way of publishing a Bible.

If you want to read a book on philosophy Read "being and nothingness" bt Sarte

PS "A good student asks questions"

 

[Danjo]

Todd he started out wanting to publish something like the bible.
Words, stories, When he went to publish it, he was told he needed pictures etc...

He wanted to get away from the war arts...

Todd I thought you had been in Kosho and learned some of this stuff...

Look at the SKSKI site and read about the mon and what it represents, have you forgotten what you learned or am I wrong on the idea that you were in the KAI???

Regards, Gary

He must have learned all of that non-violence from that great pacifist Choki Motubu

 

[GAB]

He must have learned all of that non-violence from that great pacifist Choki Motubu

Hi Danjo,

I wish that story could be verified but the latest I heard, (maybe met him and borrowed from him,) but I don't think they were related even in the adopted manner that Japanese are famous for and then un-adopting you...

I have several items (books and videos) that are translated about Choki.
I was having a private lesson on the bo at Sensei Tim Evans this morning and we talked about Choki and Matsumura and several others, and the lineage he teach's (Sensei Tim) Shorin-Ryu Karate-Do Okinawa Kobudo...

Regards, Gary

 

[John Bishop]

Hi Danjo,

I wish that story could be verified but the latest I heard, (maybe met him and borrowed from him,) but I don't think they were related even in the adopted manner that Japanese are famous for and then un-adopting you...

Regards, Gary

Choki Motobu was Okinawan. James Mitose was Japanese. Contrary to what some westerners may think, there is a vast differance between the two peoples.
Okinawan's have their own language. They have their own culture, which is closer to the Chinese culture then it is to Japanese culture. Even physically, Okinawans are a smaller people then Japanese.
So during that time a Okinawan would not be "adopting" a Japanese. If anything, it would be the opposite.

 

[Danjo]

Hi Danjo,

I wish that story could be verified but the latest I heard, (maybe met him and borrowed from him,) but I don't think they were related even in the adopted manner that Japanese are famous for and then un-adopting you...

I have several items (books and videos) that are translated about Choki.
I was having a private lesson on the bo at Sensei Tim Evans this morning and we talked about Choki and Matsumura and several others, and the lineage he teach's (Sensei Tim) Shorin-Ryu Karate-Do Okinawa Kobudo...

Regards, Gary

My point had more to do with the notion that if Mitose had trained with Motobu, he would NOT have learned pacifism from him. Quite the opposite. And, if Mitose were such a pacifist, then why in hell would he have paid such great compliments to Motobu? Many of Motobu's contemporaries felt he was too brutal and too much of a fighter, so why would some big pacifist like Mitose claimed to be (you weren't even supposed to use your kenpo for self-defense !?!) sing such a man's praises?

 

[GAB]

Danjo,

I know what you ment, I just answered regarding the relation idea... I told you I had books and Videos. I truly know about the stories and how he was disliked.(Motobu) The stories of him and Funakoshi and the Boxing match that was awarded to Funakoshi in the papers etc...Saying Motobu was a pacifist is like saying the same about General G. Patton, a play on words...

John exactly,

So why the constant verbage he went to Okinawa instead of Japan.

The Tracy's talk about it in depth on the site and Ted Sumners site. He went to Japan... His relationship was with three families, that revolved with Yoshida Clan. And other information. Mike Brown has that information...

The Okinawan stories are coming out of the eastcoast schools from angle 3 of the octagon...

He spoke Japanese not Okinawan, as I understand the Satsuma clan was not a large invading force and occuping with lots of troops. The relationship with China was much more prevelant. When the Japanese went and took over Okinawa it was during the time of the Chinese return to the womb mentality.

Their huge flotilla was no longer there and they went back to being isolated.
So they did not protect the Okinawan"s (Ryu Kyu)

There are so many different takes on the various reasons for the rise and fall of the area called Asia, it is almost as convoluted as the stories about James the criminal Mitose...For every pro you have two con or visa versa...

The book is a piece of history, you can tear it up and use it for firestarter or you can look at it for what it is...

Regards, Gary

 

[John Bishop]

Danjo,

John exactly,

So why the constant verbage he went to Okinawa instead of Japan.

Regards, Gary

I have actually never heard that version. But it dosen't surprise me.

And then, Will Tracy wrote:

I began training directly under Great Grand Master Fusae Oshita.
Oshita was Great Grand Master under Great Grand Master Kiyoka Yoshida and taught with James Mitose from 1942 to 1953.
It was Oshita who showed me the Way of Kenpo, and from whom I received Shodan in November 1961. I also trained personally with Professor William K. S. Chow, who was junior to Oshita, and from whom I also received Shodan in 1961. I also trained with Great Grand Master Shizue, who had trained in Japan along side James Mitose, under Great Grand Master Sakuhi Yoshida, and Great Grand Master Toju KOMATSU.
Takiyoshi (KOMATSU) introduced the first elements of Jiujitsu into Kosho-Kenpo in the 12th Century, and every succeeding master of Kenpo made his or her changes to the system.

Now this should be pretty easy to prove.
Mitose put some of his class pictures in his book.
Ed Parker put some of Prof. Chow's class pictures in his book.
I have some pictures of Prof. Chow's classes before Mr. Parker joined it.
And I'm sure there were many more class and group pictures taken in the 40's, 50's, and 60's.
So all Will Tracy, or anyone else has to do is produce these some class pictures with these "other instructors" in them.
I'm sure Will Tracy has a picture of him and his instructor, "Fusae Oshita". Dosen't everyone have a picture of themselves and their instructor?



Maybe this is one of the reasons I question Wilbur Tracy's credibility.
http://www.watchman.org/cults/sexgodss.htm

 

[GAB]

Then why did he title it "What is Self defense"? That would certainly get in the way of publishing a Bible.

If you want to read a book on philosophy Read "being and nothingness" bt Sarte

PS "A good student asks questions"

Todd,

If you knew his thoughts on what true self defense is, you would not be asking the question, that is the nut inside of the shell.

But no one wanted to hear his thoughts on true self defense. He must have been reading Gichin Funakoshi or visa versa. True self defense is not getting in an altercation. No fighting, then if you have to, still evade and if all else fails then the fighting arts, throwing or manipulating the opponent, then blocking, then striking and kicking last.

The cold war with Russia was a good example of self defense a few small skirimishishes but not the bomb anymore..

But look at the stupidity of it or was it, prosperous times build this then, that, then this again...

Hey just thinking about what you said...

Regards, Gary





When "you" are asking the question. "You are the good student" when others are asking, is it a different story???

 

[Mekosho]

(scratches his head and wonders)...where did I put that secret decoder ring?!?!?!