Yes, absolutely true.Tgace said:Budo and Bushido are so interrelated
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Yes, absolutely true.Tgace said:Budo and Bushido are so interrelated
Tgace said:When it comes to codes and "Warrior ethos" I often see the "well they didnt really live like that" response. To which I say "well naturally so". Codes are more Ideals to be lived up to more than they are laws. These Codes are the ideals that "Warriors" use to carry them through the "why am I here doing this" moments. Its the Marine "esprit de corps" that makes them Marines, sets them apart, and is in part a component of what allows the Marines to accomplish what they have. The historic Knights didnt "live" the Chivalric code 100% anymore than the Samurai "lived" the Bushido Code.
Their whole concept of mercy, honor, and all the other ideals experessed were of an entirely different "tack" than what we consider them now."I would like to spare you," he said, restraining his tears, "but there are Genji warriors everywhere. You cannot possibly escape. It will be better if I kill you than if someone else does it, because I will offer prayers on your behalf."
Tgace said:More than likely...however none of it negates the value of the "codes" themselves. And many of the "house rules" of the "pre-bushido" age do espouse many components of a "Warrior code" and actions the lord expected of the retainers.
I cant see this at all, they are fundamentally different. Yes some core values are the same, but there is a huge difference between the fundamental tenant in Bushido of loyalty at all costs to the master. I havent read the article yet, but I will do so, but it will have to be well researched before I can place it ahead of what of what senior sensei from Japan have taught me regarding Budo and its meaning (it is a grading subject), or how the Toyo Budokan defines budo. The following is a quote from Doshin Sos book Shorinji Kempo, its philosphies and techniques, printed in 1970. This is by a Japanese man that lived for 28 years in China and had a high level of knowledge of Chinese and Japanese written language and martial art history. I apologies for any strangeness that may be apparent, I dont have the time to go through the OCR scan for errors.Tgace said:Budo and Bushido are so interrelated that I dont believe you can say one is "better" than the other....
http://karatethejapaneseway.com/floating_world/srsi_bushido_article.html
Although Bushido is not a martial art or form, it is still related to the origins of Bujutsu and Budo. It is one of the reasons how and why the bushi developed bujutsu.
The two concepts have been around for many years stretching back to early China. It was said that Bodhidharma (Daruma) introduced budo to China. Now there is little proof of this story, and we can all believe what we wish to, but the arts studied at the Shaolin temple were of a fundamentally different nature to the arts already practiced in China. This art was called Arohan no ken, or Nalo-jan in later years it was called I-jinsin to distinguish it from zazen. Where as the aim of the martial arts practiced in China at this time was purely efficient fighting methods. The martial arts practiced at the Shaolin temple were for developing the characters of the practitioners, and a form of gyo or ascetic training to reach enlightenment. This attitude of training mirrors the attitude of budo and is vastly different to that of bushido. Certainly they share similar concepts, but ultimately Bushido is all about making yourself a better tool for your master, while Budo is about self development and a greater awareness of humanity and the world we live in. This is why Bushido was promoted so heavily by the Japanese leaders at various times, with its Confucianism philosophy it was seen as a good tool to develop obedient followers.Tgace said:I think we have a difference in definition. Budo developed out of Bujutsu, both of which were rooted in and grew from the soil of Japanese concepts that made up Bushido. As we have been discussing, Bushido is/was more a compiliation of various philosophies and writings than a code pre-Tokugawa..check out this excellent article.
http://martialarts.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://kiaiyamabushiryu.tripod.com/Archives/Jan2000/NewsArt5.html
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Broadly speaking I agree with this, although there are a number of Bujutsu sensei that claim they have a self-development aspect too.Tgace said:In a highly slimplified way, here is the difference between Budo, Bujutsu and Bushido as I have come to understand it.
Early Japanese combat arts were known as Bujutsu, they essentially had no philosophical or spiritual side. They were military arts used for practical application. Later martial arts that were developed with a spiritual side are known as Budo. For example, Judo is a Budo form of the Bujutsu art of Jujitsu. Kendo-Kenjutsu/Kyudo-Kyujutsu etc.
The word Bushido "way of the warrior" is often used when speaking about the martial arts. Bushido is not a martial art, it is a fighting philosophy, a system of combat ethics. Bushido incorporates Shinto and Confucian ideals. By following Bushido, warriors could apply their combat skills in strictly defined right or wrong ways. This "fundamental tenant" of total loyalty was peculiar to the "Japanese" (at the time at least) as a culture rather than to any particular thought system. Thats why Bushido developed where and how it did and would have been across Budo, Bujutsu, Bushido, Buwhateveryouwanttocallit.
So yes..I am saying that philosophically they are very interrelated.During the relatively peaceful rule by the Tokugawa Shoguns there developed 7 interconnected characteristics (justice, courage, benevolence, politeness, sincerity, honor, loyalty to the lord) that have come to make up the ideal of Bushido. It was during this same period of time that many do forms came into existence changing the emphasis of the bushi from strictly combat oriented (bujutsu) to areas of human development too (budo). In a way, Bushido can be thought of as a bridge between bujutsu and budo. The well known martial artist and historian, Donn Draeger (1979) makes the following distinctions between bujutsu and budo: classical bujutsu was concerned with combat, discipline and morals while classical budo was concerned with morals, discipline and aesthetic form. While these concerns overlap, they are not the same nor is the emphasis the same. One can see how the moral guidance provided by Bushido might lead a student of bujutsu to change the emphasis of their study towards the goals of budo. Anyone who has studied a jutsu for many years probably makes this shift at some point in their training.