What if you train Judo and Sanda (or MMA) at the same time?

[Kung Fu Wang]

If you train

- Judo, you have to train jacket wrestling skill.
- Sanda, or MMA. you have to train gloves and no-jacket wrestling skill.

Some jacket wrestling techniques don't work well in no-jacket wrestling environment. If your goal is self-defense (or fighting), will you spend your training time to train this jacket wrestling technique (require pulling on jacket)? It's still a good wrestling skill to be used in the winter time.

Your thought?

 

[skribs]

Here's my general rule of thumb towards cross-training:

Beginners (less than 1 year) shouldn't cross-train. It's enough trying to learn one new thing.
Intermediate students (1-3 years) should only cross-train in something that is completely different to what you currently train. For example, if your art focuses on grappling, then go for a striking art.
Advanced students (3+ years) could benefit from cross-training in a similar art to fine-tune their game in ways they were missing with their current training.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

If you train

- Judo, you have to train jacket wrestling skill.
- Sanda, or MMA. you have to train gloves and no-jacket wrestling skill.

Some jacket wrestling techniques don't work well in no-jacket wrestling environment. If your goal is self-defense (or fighting), will you spend your training time to train this jacket wrestling technique (require pulling on jacket)? It's still a good wrestling skill to be used in the winter time.

Your thought?

Personally, I like training grappling with the gi, and simply practicing not using it all the time. That way you always have to pay attention to the jacket defensively, and have to look for the opportunities without it.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Personally, I like training grappling with the gi, and simply practicing not using it all the time. That way you always have to pay attention to the jacket defensively, and have to look for the opportunities without it.

This issue bother me very much lately.

When you grab on your opponent's jacket, you can use that grip to push and pull. When your opponent has no jacket, even if you can get an arm grabbing, that contact point will be difficult to be used for pulling. You will need to find different pulling contact point. Sometime you just don't have enough time to switch contact point.

Since SC has been evolved into Combat SC (add kick and punch), I stopped teaching the jacket wrestling skill. I prefer to send my student to Sanda (or MMA) tournament than to SC tournament. Now I have some students who want to test their skill in SC tournament.

If I

- teach them the jacket skill, I'm going backward.
- don't teach them the jacket wrestling skill, they won''t have any chance in SC tournament.
- teach them both, since the contact points and set up are different, they have to double their learning/training time.

The jacket wrestling is like a burden on my back. I want to throw it away. But I have difficult time to do so (because that was where I came from).

After Bruce Lee had evolved his MA system into JKD, Did he still train his WC?

 

[jobo]

This issue bother me very much lately.

When you grab on your opponent's jacket, you can use that grip to push and pull. When your opponent has no jacket, even if you can get an arm grabbing, that contact point will be difficult to be used for pulling. You will need to find different pulling contact point. Sometime you just don't have enough time to switch contact point.

Since SC has been evolved into Combat SC (add kick and punch), I stopped teaching the jacket wrestling skill. I prefer to send my student to Sanda (or MMA) tournament than to SC tournament. Now I have some students who want to test their skill in SC tournament.

If I

- teach them the jacket skill, I'm going backward.
- don't teach them the jacket wrestling skill, they won''t have any chance in SC tournament.
- teach them both, since the contact points and set up are different, they have to double their learning/training time.

The jacket wrestling is like a burden on my back. I want to throw it away. But I have difficult time to do so (because that was where I came from).

After Bruce Lee had evolved his MA system into JKD, Did he still train his WC?

it seems a minor problem to be honest, teach your students what they want to learn, they are going to spend a far greater % of their time in tournaments than they are defending themselves

from a practical point of view i found no difficulty in adapting, gi throwing skills in to general clothing throwing skills, non at all, it doesn't matter if you ruin their tshirt, they still end up on the floor, fights generally seem to involve a lot of garment grabbing .its far more of a problem against people who are skilled in not getting thrown, but what % of the population is that ?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

This issue bother me very much lately.

When you grab on your opponent's jacket, you can use that grip to push and pull. When your opponent has no jacket, even if you can get an arm grabbing, that contact point will be difficult to be used for pulling. You will need to find different pulling contact point. Sometime you just don't have enough time to switch contact point.

Since SC has been evolved into Combat SC (add kick and punch), I stopped teaching the jacket wrestling skill. I prefer to send my student to Sanda (or MMA) tournament than to SC tournament. Now I have some students who want to test their skill in SC tournament.

If I

- teach them the jacket skill, I'm going backward.
- don't teach them the jacket wrestling skill, they won''t have any chance in SC tournament.
- teach them both, since the contact points and set up are different, they have to double their learning/training time.

The jacket wrestling is like a burden on my back. I want to throw it away. But I have difficult time to do so (because that was where I came from).

After Bruce Lee had evolved his MA system into JKD, Did he still train his WC?

Yes, learning two approaches takes more time (though probably not anything like double). But I can’t see any harm in it. I don’t see teaching that as going backwards- it’s viable skill, and learning the principles of using the jacket (and defending it) will improve their overall game.

 

[skribs]

This issue bother me very much lately.

When you grab on your opponent's jacket, you can use that grip to push and pull. When your opponent has no jacket, even if you can get an arm grabbing, that contact point will be difficult to be used for pulling. You will need to find different pulling contact point. Sometime you just don't have enough time to switch contact point.

Since SC has been evolved into Combat SC (add kick and punch), I stopped teaching the jacket wrestling skill. I prefer to send my student to Sanda (or MMA) tournament than to SC tournament. Now I have some students who want to test their skill in SC tournament.

If I

- teach them the jacket skill, I'm going backward.
- don't teach them the jacket wrestling skill, they won''t have any chance in SC tournament.
- teach them both, since the contact points and set up are different, they have to double their learning/training time.

The jacket wrestling is like a burden on my back. I want to throw it away. But I have difficult time to do so (because that was where I came from).

After Bruce Lee had evolved his MA system into JKD, Did he still train his WC?

Where I live, people wear a jacket 75% of the year. So training with a jacket would be better.

 

[Danny T]

Train both
You know immediately there is a difference and will adjust. Gi work helps to make your defense better while no gi helps make your offense better.
I’ve been training and teaching both for years. Most people favor one over the other but it’s not a problem learning both at the same time.

 

[drop bear]

When you grab on your opponent's jacket, you can use that grip to push and pull. When your opponent has no jacket, even if you can get an arm grabbing, that contact point will be difficult to be used for pulling. You will need to find different pulling contact point. Sometime you just don't have enough time to switch contact point.

No gi techniques work in gi though.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

No gi techniques work in gi though.

Agree! But the other way around can be difficult. It's hard to "pull" in no-jacket wrestling.

In the following clip, you can change the jacket pulling into neck pulling. But in fighting, you may not have enough time to switch contact points from shoulder pushing into neck pulling. If your opponent moves back in fast speed, it's very difficult to have time to pull his neck.

With jacket, since your opponent's moving back will pull you with him, the jacket wrestling don't have this issue.

 

[drop bear]

Agree! But the other way around can be difficult. It's hard to "pull" in no-jacket wrestling.

In the following clip, you can change the jacket pulling into neck pulling. But in fighting, you may not have enough time to switch contact points from shoulder pushing into neck pulling. If your opponent moves back in fast speed, it's very difficult to have time to pull his neck.

With jacket, since your opponent's moving back will pull you with him, the jacket wrestling don't have this issue.

Striking changes the mechanics of fighting considerably more than clothing.

This is the funny thing about when people do martial arts in street clothes for realism.