What if the art you love is the sport you hate?

[matt.m]

I enjoy TKD, the old school traditional non mcdojo dungeon and mat type of TKD. A lot of sweat and grunting, cadence style poomsea/hyung.

I tell you with few exceptions there are no more schools like that. No for the most part I see these buy your black belt as long as your check doesn't bounce in a year crap. I hate it.

I know Judo is Japanese, but it is no different. It all depends on if you learned from a hard core Korean who learned from the Yudo academy in Korea.

Just my .02.

 

[terryl965]

Matt there are still alot of what I call traditional TKD school, they just are not as properlar because of the Mc Dojo's that are out there.

 

[Bodhisattva]

I enjoy TKD, the old school traditional non mcdojo dungeon and mat type of TKD. A lot of sweat and grunting, cadence style poomsea/hyung.

I tell you with few exceptions there are no more schools like that. No for the most part I see these buy your black belt as long as your check doesn't bounce in a year crap. I hate it.

I know Judo is Japanese, but it is no different. It all depends on if you learned from a hard core Korean who learned from the Yudo academy in Korea.

Just my .02.

There are some great Judo schools in the states...

 

[StuartA]

Matt,

Its not that there arnt schools like that around, though I admit they are heavily out numbered.. I think the problems lies in the fact that there isnt an organisation for these sort of schools around.. until now

www.pioneertkd.com

(Hope thats okay to post Mr Moderator.. if not, feel free to delete).

Stuart

Ps. This is the first place its been mentioned anywhere

 

[matt.m]

I am more or less venting. However, I have seen so many "Competition Only" judo school's. Guys I am not kidding I took my class to a few different schools to randori. My white belts were destroying their green and brown belts.

I am telling you that the true dojangs are too far and between. When instructor's believe more in competition and medals and forget that if you just do reps after reps after reps you will build champions.

 

[terryl965]

I am more or less venting. However, I have seen so many "Competition Only" judo school's. Guys I am not kidding I took my class to a few different schools to randori. My white belts were destroying their green and brown belts.

I am telling you that the true dojangs are too far and between. When instructor's believe more in competition and medals and forget that if you just do reps after reps after reps you will build champions.

I agree Matt and I have been venting for 10 years, but you know what a GM told me in a meeting that we are only a refection of our GM and we must follow our hearts. I know we or I should say I will do what I need to to carry on that memory of my GM.

 

[hongkongfooey]

I enjoy TKD, the old school traditional non mcdojo dungeon and mat type of TKD. A lot of sweat and grunting, cadence style poomsea/hyung.

I tell you with few exceptions there are no more schools like that. No for the most part I see these buy your black belt as long as your check doesn't bounce in a year crap. I hate it.

I know Judo is Japanese, but it is no different. It all depends on if you learned from a hard core Korean who learned from the Yudo academy in Korea.

Just my .02.

Man, can I feel your pain! I don't do TKD, I do Kenpo. It's the same thing.
Too many schools focus on kids, and not enough on teaching the system effectively. I am so tired of Kenpo people taking about how deadly our system is. Most of these "warriors" don't even understand the lessons the material is supposed to teach them.

 

[exile]

Matt,

Its not that there arnt schools like that around, though I admit they are heavily out numbered.. I think the problems lies in the fact that there isnt an organisation for these sort of schools around.. until now

www.pioneertkd.com

(Hope thats okay to post Mr Moderator.. if not, feel free to delete).

Stuart

Ps. This is the first place its been mentioned anywhere

Stuart, this looks very interesting. I take it you are primarily UK based? I know your Membership info allows for non-British individual members, but the main body of your membership is still British, yes?

 

[Twin Fist]

look to texas

a lot, and i mean a LOT, prob MOST TKD here comes from Jhoon Rhee, though Allen Steen

it is original, self defense, no olympics, hard core TKD

 

[exile]

look to texas

a lot, and i mean a LOT, prob MOST TKD here comes from Jhoon Rhee, though Allen Steen

it is original, self defense, no olympics, hard core TKD

Tex Kwon Do, as per Terry's sig line!

 

[Hand Sword]

Not a TKD practitoner, but, I think what the question is asking has gone on, generally spaeking, in the MA world already. McDojos and Mcsystems everywhere!

 

[StuartA]

Stuart, this looks very interesting. I take it you are primarily UK based? I know your Membership info allows for non-British individual members, but the main body of your membership is still British, yes?

Exile,
In answer to your question, the answer is yes and no.. Ill go into that further if you like but if possible, please feel free to move this to another thread so I/we dont end up hijacking this one.

Stuart

 

[exile]

Exile,
In answer to your question, the answer is yes and no.. Ill go into that further if you like but if possible, please feel free to move this to another thread so I/we dont end up hijacking this one.

Stuart

Just for myself, Stuart, I think this is fine and relevant to Matt's OP. But it might be good for you to start a thread specifically on this topic— Member Announcements seems like it would be a good place for it (?)—since it's one in which a lot of people will be interested. As you've probably observed by this point, a lot of the TKDers on MT are devotees of 'old school' TKD and its street-defense ethic. Matt's OP is very representative of the way a lot of us feel—the thread title captures our view perfectly!

 

[igillman]

What has happened is that a lot of people are "persuing a black belt" instead of "persuing skill in the art". This means that their goal is a black belt instead of it being knowledge and skill. A lot of the schools are going to give people what they want (the black belt) instead of what they need (the knowledge and skills). When we pay for something we expect to get it, therefore when we pay for testing we expect to pass. The more money we pay the more we expect to pass. A lot of schools do not want to fail anybody because they fear they will lose their customers (money vs skill) so they would rather pass a sub-standard student.

It used to be that a Black Belt would fight like Bruce Lee, now a lot of them I see fight like Bruce Forsyth.

 

[StuartA]

Just for myself, Stuart, I think this is fine and relevant to Matt's OP. But it might be good for you to start a thread specifically on this topic— Member Announcements seems like it would be a good place for it (?)—since it's one in which a lot of people will be interested. As you've probably observed by this point, a lot of the TKDers on MT are devotees of 'old school' TKD and its street-defense ethic. Matt's OP is very representative of the way a lot of us feel—the thread title captures our view perfectly!

Okay.. Ill start a seperate thread as its been 'okayed' by a mod (I didnt as I wasnt sure if it was allowed or not). For now Ill keep it in the TKD section as its not technically announced officially yet.

Stuart

 

[terryl965]

What has happened is that a lot of people are "persuing a black belt" instead of "persuing skill in the art". This means that their goal is a black belt instead of it being knowledge and skill. A lot of the schools are going to give people what they want (the black belt) instead of what they need (the knowledge and skills). When we pay for something we expect to get it, therefore when we pay for testing we expect to pass. The more money we pay the more we expect to pass. A lot of schools do not want to fail anybody because they fear they will lose their customers (money vs skill) so they would rather pass a sub-standard student.

It used to be that a Black Belt would fight like Bruce Lee, now a lot of them I see fight like Bruce Forsyth.

The only problem I see with your statement is this, that I highlighted. Where in society does it say if you pay you pass, I have lost a new BB just the other day because he did not want to learn my system of TKD it was not what he calle dTKD and like I told him he can stay and learn or leave and go back to his McDojo. After one day he came back to train but he wanted it and I told him no, remember the pasture is greened over there for you. I will not scarcfice my Art for money plain and simple and students will come and go and all of that stuff.

 

[Tez3]

What has happened is that a lot of people are "persuing a black belt" instead of "persuing skill in the art". This means that their goal is a black belt instead of it being knowledge and skill. A lot of the schools are going to give people what they want (the black belt) instead of what they need (the knowledge and skills). When we pay for something we expect to get it, therefore when we pay for testing we expect to pass. The more money we pay the more we expect to pass. A lot of schools do not want to fail anybody because they fear they will lose their customers (money vs skill) so they would rather pass a sub-standard student.

It used to be that a Black Belt would fight like Bruce Lee, now a lot of them I see fight like Bruce Forsyth.

Who said Brucie couldn't fight? Nice to fight you,nice!

I agree with what you are saying about people paying and expecting to receive their grading and about the schools that will pass anyone for money! I've seen it in karate clubs before.

 

[SageGhost83]

There is a niche being filled by these money first, blackbelt factory schools, and that niche is the I-am-too-lazy-to-earn-it-but-I-still-want-it-so-give-it-to-me segment of society. They want to be a "blackbelt" so they can brag and try to cover up the fact that they are really lazy and they couldn't cut it in a real school, so they pay their way through and end up wearing the belt while lacking the skills. Then they get the crap kicked out of them, their contest posted to youtube, and TKD labelled as being ineffective :lol:. Thank goodness for people like Terryl965, there is still hope for good TKD in this world.

 

[igillman]

Tez3 - That is probably part of the "Generation Game" with the younger generation being more inclined to buy the belt rather than earn it. In some places, if the "Price is Right" and you "Play Your Cards Right" "You Bet" that the phrase "What do dollars make? Black Belts!" is true. You will probably find a black belt on the conveyer belt at the end of the show with the fondu set and cuddly toy.

Terryl965 - I have rethought what I was trying to say with regards to the testing and I think I may have it this time. People are under the impression that they are paying for advancement instead of paying for the opportunity to advance if they are good enough. The difference being the level of expectation of the outcome.

 

[matt.m]

Boy oh boy do I have a message for you guys. I know this manager at a library close to my house. She and I have talked about her school. I have talked about mine, period.

Anyway, she is a red belt/black promotable and only going 2 times a week for 11 months. She is the nicest lady in the world. Very much into the budo of the art and her heart is in the right place. However, in MSK I tested my white belts to yellow after 8 months. In hapkido it is about a belt a year.

I was at a mall over the weekend and saw a 2nd dan from another McDojo and she said she had been going to the same school for 2 and a half years.

Man, I told my students on their 1st day that it would take them the following: Blood, Sweat, Tears, Growing Together as a group, and 4-5 yrs. of a lot of reps.

There are only 2 other judo schools in st. l that I know of, and I have been to them all that feel and do the same as I do............kind of my mentors and friends Bong Yul Shin and Dan Hurt.

It just seems that even though Judo is a Japanese art......when transferred to the ideology of the Korean Yudo system it is just so much harder.

I am proud of my students, they work hard for me and they try and help each other on technique correction. Maybe it's because I was a Sgt. in the Marines but man I have them growing as a group and loving it. It is all about them and their success. I don't care, I am done and ya know what they say, "Those who can't compete teach."