What have you learned from watching animals?

[dvcochran]

My entire life has revolved around herd and domestic animals. They are single/self minded, stupid (in human terms), unpredictable and much, much stronger than most people give them credit for. They largely follow two senses, hunger/thirst, and at certain times the desire to breed. It is amazing how absolute these desires override everything else. I have seen bulls die by wearing themselves out from fighting another bull for herd dominance. One amazing point to this is that unless they have horns they don't do that much physical damage to each other from contact. They literally wear the other one down from pushing, pawing, and posturing. I have videos where cows freeze and refuse to move while a pack of coyotes make a meal out of them. Too often I we have lost calf's to coyotes. This usually happens when the calf is isolated or there are not many cows in the field and they choose to or cannot protect the calf. Conversely, I have seen cows chase dogs away so they can understand the difference between 1 or 2 dogs vs. several.
I think the greatest thing I have learned is that they cannot be anticipated, trusted, nor completely trained (sound familiar?). It is a long list of people who have been killed by animals they thought they could trust. There is no such thing. I believe even "man's best friend" would turn under the right circumstances.
I have to side with @Rat for the most part. Are there things we can learn from animals? Possibly in tactic or leverage in higher species but beyond that I think it is part of the answer as to why we evolved over all other animals.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Animals are at one with their environment. For them, action and reaction are one and the same. They do not make a lot of judgments before acting. No self doubt, no thought of consequences, no "what ifs." They live in the moment. They are in a perpetual state of mushin. Anyone with a dog knows what I mean. There aint a lot going on in that noodle. It is this empty mind that allows them to react instantly to a threatening stimulus. It also allows them to fall asleep quickly. I have yet to see a dog with insomnia. I have imagined myself as a dog when having trouble falling asleep, and it works for me. No worries, mate. ZZZZZZZ.

While our human brain and conceptual thinking do a lot for us and is the major reason for our survival, sometimes it's good to let go of all that and just be a natural animal. The concept of emptying our minds of unnecessary thoughts I think is something martial artists have adopted and is certainly shared with the animal world.

As far as watching other animals to base a fighting style on, I agree that each animal has a fighting style based on their particular evolution and physical attributes which differ from our own. But having said that, I think it can be useful for us to assume the spirit of a particular animal to help animate us in combat or kata, according to our personality/physicality.

 

[Buka]

I think the reason the earliest Martial Artists studied the ways of the animals - who/what the heck else did they have to emulate?

 

[Flying Crane]

I was at the zoo recently on a day that hovered around 100 degrees F. What I learned from the animals is, on a hot day you stay in the shade and out of sight.

On a more serious note, a few years back I started a thread discussing what an “animal style” means in the context of Chinese martial arts. Maybe I’ll see if i can dig that one up. It might be relevant.

 

[Flying Crane]

Thread on what is an animal style: What is an Animal Style?

 

[Invisibleflash]

I kill lots of racoons. They are very tough animals. Pellet gun kills rabbit easy. 1-22 std velo L.R. kills possum easy. to kill a coon fast, I need 3 -4 22 std velo rounds. Coons start to rip the welded wire cage apart within a few hours of catching them. I have to use low velocity with a suppressor as I am in a semi-urban environment. Need it quiet.

 

[Flying Crane]

I don’t kill animals. I don’t see a need to.

 

[jobo]

Animals are at one with their environment. For them, action and reaction are one and the same. They do not make a lot of judgments before acting. No self doubt, no thought of consequences, no "what ifs." They live in the moment. They are in a perpetual state of mushin. Anyone with a dog knows what I mean. There aint a lot going on in that noodle. It is this empty mind that allows them to react instantly to a threatening stimulus. It also allows them to fall asleep quickly. I have yet to see a dog with insomnia. I have imagined myself as a dog when having trouble falling asleep, and it works for me. No worries, mate. ZZZZZZZ.

While our human brain and conceptual thinking do a lot for us and is the major reason for our survival, sometimes it's good to let go of all that and just be a natural animal. The concept of emptying our minds of unnecessary thoughts I think is something martial artists have adopted and is certainly shared with the animal world.

As far as watching other animals to base a fighting style on, I agree that each animal has a fighting style based on their particular evolution and physical attributes which differ from our own. But having said that, I think it can be useful for us to assume the spirit of a particular animal to help animate us in combat or kata, according to our personality/physicality.

iI not sure you've ever owned a dog if you think there's nothing going on in their brains, or that they didn't suffer from self doubt or in fact depresion

 

[dvcochran]

I kill lots of racoons. They are very tough animals. Pellet gun kills rabbit easy. 1-22 std velo L.R. kills possum easy. to kill a coon fast, I need 3 -4 22 std velo rounds. Coons start to rip the welded wire cage apart within a few hours of catching them. I have to use low velocity with a suppressor as I am in a semi-urban environment. Need it quiet.

We had a problem with beavers on two ponds last winter. Tried live a trap at first. It was destroyed. I had several single and double spring traps from when I trapped as a kid. They could pull out of them most times leaving nothing behind. I purchased two 330 lbs. conibear traps and to got two beavers but still had a lot of damage going on. I shot 5, killed 4 with one shot each with a .22. One shot one kill is definitely a true and humane statement with hunting of any kind.
Where are you aiming? It needs to be a good head shot for a rodent. The fifth one I shot died but was able to get back in the water before doing so.

 

[Prostar]

Don't pee on the electric fence.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Watching big cats hunt (especially lions and cheetahs), I've learned how controlling the neck can control your opponent.

This is how the idea of "head lock" came from. If you can use your head lock to bend your opponent's spine sideway, you have destroyed his body structure already before you even take him down.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

What I learned from animals.

1) I am the apex predator. Animals are what I eat.
2) Except sharks and bears.
3) When I see a shark or a bear, I don't poke them with sticks.

 

[dvcochran]

I LOVE bear and shark. Especially bear. #3 definitely falls under the "have some common sense. rule.
It is shark week on the Science and Discovery channels. The things some of them do with Great White sharks is insane. But I love to watch them.

 

[dvcochran]

iI not sure you've ever owned a dog if you think there's nothing going on in their brains, or that they didn't suffer from self doubt or in fact depresion

What kind of "dog" do you own? I always got the impression it was one of those little tea kettle dogs that could fit in the palm of your hand. It seems to be the boss in your relationship. A domesticated animal is done so for a purpose like hunting, protecting livestock, pulling a sled, being a true and trained service animal for the disabled, etc... Can they be a companion? I suppose. I get sad every time we lose a dog, or any animal for that matter. But it is a different relationship compared to human interaction. Too many people are blurring that line to me.
We were at a moderately upscale restaurant about 2 weeks ago and a lady had a little tea cup dog with her. We never complained but I know that three tables did and I heard the manager tell them there was nothing they could do about it. I call bs on that. I told the manager they lost at least one customer.
A respectful and compassionate human is going to be considerate enough of others to leave their animal at home for an hour or so unless they truly need it to get around. That is a completely different dynamic and can be seen and felt in many different ways.

 

[jobo]

What kind of "dog" do you own? I always got the impression it was one of those little tea kettle dogs that could fit in the palm of your hand. It seems to be the boss in your relationship. A domesticated animal is done so for a purpose like hunting, protecting livestock, pulling a sled, being a true and trained service animal for the disabled, etc... Can they be a companion? I suppose. I get sad every time we lose a dog, or any animal for that matter. But it is a different relationship compared to human interaction. Too many people are blurring that line to me.
We were at a moderately upscale restaurant about 2 weeks ago and a lady had a little tea cup dog with her. We never complained but I know that three tables did and I heard the manager tell them there was nothing they could do about it. I call bs on that. I told the manager they lost at least one customer.
A respectful and compassionate human is going to be considerate enough of others to leave their animal at home for an hour or so unless they truly need it to get around. That is a completely different dynamic and can be seen and felt in many different ways.

dogs were never domesticated, dogs volunteered to enter in to partnership with humans, and like any partnership requires compromise on both sides. I ended up with mine as he was untrainable which then lead to a battle of wills and eventually a compromise, which we both ccould both live with and a symbiotic relationship developed, I'm in charge of food and shelter he is in charge of exercise and home security. he turned me from a very unfit over weight slob to the fine example of manhood I am now, and we haven't been burgled in the night, so he has met his end of the contract, if we had a sled or had to hunt our own food he would take that on as well, fortunately we have a shop round the corner and it seldom snows, he did used to tow me on a bike till he got old,

he is a 20 lbs lump of muscle and bone, so not big, but hardly a tea cup dog and comes from the lake district or cumbra were they are used as hunting dogs, something I had to train him out of as I had no use for a succession of dead squirels and rats and unlike you don't kill for fun

 

[dvcochran]

dogs were never domesticated, dogs volunteered to enter in to partnership with humans, and like any partnership requires compromise on both sides. I ended up with mine as he was untrainable which then lead to a battle of wills and eventually a compromise, which we both ccould both live with and a symbiotic relationship developed, I'm in charge of food and shelter he is in charge of exercise and home security. he turned me from a very unfit over weight slob to the fine example of manhood I am now, and we haven't been burgled in the night, so he has met his end of the contract, if we had a sled or had to hunt our own food he would take that on as well, fortunately we have a shop round the corner and it seldom snows, he did used to tow me on a bike till he got old,

he is a 20 lbs lump of muscle and bone, so not big, but hardly a tea cup dog and comes from the lake district or cumbra were they are used as hunting dogs, something I had to train him out of as I had no use for a succession of dead squirels and rats and unlike you don't kill for fun

We never kill for purely fun as you imply. Frankly it offends that you would imply such a thing. It is a testament to your ignorance about something you do not understand. We kill either to protect the animals that we have considerable time and dollars invested in or we eat it.

 

[Buka]

My entire life has revolved around herd and domestic animals. They are single/self minded, stupid (in human terms), unpredictable and much, much stronger than most people give them credit for. They largely follow two senses, hunger/thirst, and at certain times the desire to breed. It is amazing how absolute these desires override everything else. I have seen bulls die by wearing themselves out from fighting another bull for herd dominance. One amazing point to this is that unless they have horns they don't do that much physical damage to each other from contact. They literally wear the other one down from pushing, pawing, and posturing. I have videos where cows freeze and refuse to move while a pack of coyotes make a meal out of them. Too often I we have lost calf's to coyotes. This usually happens when the calf is isolated or there are not many cows in the field and they choose to or cannot protect the calf. Conversely, I have seen cows chase dogs away so they can understand the difference between 1 or 2 dogs vs. several.
I think the greatest thing I have learned is that they cannot be anticipated, trusted, nor completely trained (sound familiar?). It is a long list of people who have been killed by animals they thought they could trust. There is no such thing. I believe even "man's best friend" would turn under the right circumstances.
I have to side with @Rat for the most part. Are there things we can learn from animals? Possibly in tactic or leverage in higher species but beyond that I think it is part of the answer as to why we evolved over all other animals.

Out here is much like your world, a lot of it is a farming region. My rented house is next to my landlords very small farm. Dogs and cats are considered livestock around here.

But not to me. Not to me, not even one little fk'n bit. They are my surrogate children. I knew at seven years old I didn't want kids, I wanted dogs. Haven't ever changed my mind.

I like dogs a whole lot better than I like people. I like every dog I ever had better than I've ever liked anybody. While there are many, many cases of dogs turning on people, the ones I've had would not turn on their pack members, especially their pack leaders. Us. You might disagree, but if so you know nothing of the packs I'm been part of.

I've waited years for certain dogs to be born. Long wait when you're looking for a pup. But it was always worth every last minute. I'm dogless right now, figured I'd never have another dog because when you rent out here there's no way you can have a dog. That's thanks to the irresponsible owners who have rented on this island. Aholes, every last one of them. This house has a strict no pets policy. Or least it used to. But as our landlord, considered by many to be a mean, old Asian farmer but who is actually the balls, got to know us. He told us we could have a dog.

And now we wait. Waiting for a certain one out of certain dog. It will be sometime in the fall. It seems like the longest wait of my life. Looks like this cute lil' sucker. A Staffordshire Bull Terrier.

Man, I can't wait, I love dogs. And I'll argue over them all day.

 

[Flying Crane]

Out here is much like your world, a lot of it is a farming region. My rented house is next to my landlords very small farm. Dogs and cats are considered livestock around here.

But not to me. Not to me, not even one little fk'n bit. They are my surrogate children. I knew at seven years old I didn't want kids, I wanted dogs. Haven't ever changed my mind.

I like dogs a whole lot better than I like people. I like every dog I ever had better than I've ever liked anybody. While there are many, many cases of dogs turning on people, the ones I've had would not turn on their pack members, especially their pack leaders. Us. You might disagree, but if so you know nothing of the packs I'm been part of.

I've waited years for certain dogs to be born. Long wait when you're looking for a pup. But it was always worth every last minute. I'm dogless right now, figured I'd never have another dog because when you rent out here there's no way you can have a dog. That's thanks to the irresponsible owners who have rented on this island. Aholes, every last one of them. This house has a strict no pets policy. Or least it used to. But as our landlord, considered by many to be a mean, old Asian farmer but who is actually the balls, got to know us. He told us we could have a dog.

And now we wait. Waiting for a certain one out of certain dog. It will be sometime in the fall. It seems like the longest wait of my life. Looks like this cute lil' sucker. A Staffordshire Bull Terrier.

View attachment 22401

Man, I can't wait, I love dogs. And I'll argue over them all day.

I pretty much feel the same way about cats. All of ‘em.

When we bought our first house, we discovered we had inherited a colony of ferals. I partnered with the San Francisco SPCA to trap them and have them sterilized and released. It wasn’t their fault that they were feral. It was people who put them out and weren’t even responsible enough to have them sterilized first. Cats have kittens. Over and over. People gotta be responsible and make sure that doesn’t happen where it is unacceptable. Virtually all of the problems that people have with animals are the fault of the people.

I’ve had sick cats that I loved and cared for beyond the point where most people would have had them put down or simply tossed them away.

We recently moved away from the San Francisco area, but for the past five years we had lived in a rural area on the coast, south of The City. Mountain Lions are a known presence. I set up a critter cam outside the house and for a couple years got all kinds of pictures of coyotes, foxes, deer, skunk, raccoons, squirrels, birds, wood rats. I was thrilled about all of them, especially the coyotes who are terribly persecuted in some parts of the country. But no mountain lions.

I just recently looked through the last batch of pictures taken in the last few weeks before we moved, and I finally got a mountain lion. He was right outside the house, under a bedroom window in the wee hours of the morning. I am thrilled.

The only fellow I didn’t get pictures of was a bobcat, but Ive been fortunate to have seen several of them in the area.

 

[Flying Crane]

My mountain lion visitor. Spectacular!!

 

[Buka]

Oh, sweet Jesus there's a mountain lion outside your window!