what does everybody think of flashy kicks?

[Baytor]

Any technique practiced diligently can be effective. It is all in understanding how to practice and apply it.

True, but knowing when to use them is just as important. Not every technique,no matter how diligently practiced, is effective or the best technique to use for every circumstance.

For example: The military and police employ the use of snipers. They diligently practice their craft. They are masters of what they do. Their rifles are precision weapons. When used correctly, a sniper and his rifle can change the course of an engagement. However, to send a sniper into close quarters battle with the same rifle is not effective. For CQB, you want something compact with a high rate of fire.

The bottom line is that any technique has a time or place to be used. IMO, the only place for high flashy kicks is in tournaments and demonstrations.

 

[TigerWoman]

True, but knowing when to use them is just as important. Not every technique,no matter how diligently practiced, is effective or the best technique to use for every circumstance.

The bottom line is that any technique has a time or place to be used. IMO, the only place for high flashy kicks is in tournaments and demonstrations.

I disagree, and I agree with Michigan TKD. If you would have read my post prior, I gave a good example of when a diligently practiced kick–flashy whatever you want to call a high kick–was used in a street fight to END the fight. A double flying side to the head. Also Jump Spin Heel. These kicks when they are FAST can be devastating and pretty indefensible. They are knockouts. We can't even use JSH in sparring practice, because the likelihood of knockout WITH headgear on. There is a time and place for every strike, that goes without saying. Practicing the techniques offered in TKD is the best way of knowing if they are effective and when to use them.

 

[TKD USA]

When I first came into Martial Arts I loved all of those flashy kicks but now since I am more into my art I think they just take up alot of time and are useless. Very fun to learn though.

 

[Han-Mi]

There fun to watch and to do. The one thing that I would have to add to this discussion is that spinning and jumping can be used for misdirection and confusion.Obviously, in the basic street fight, you don't need to use these techniques, but If you come up against another experienced fighter, they can be useful and effective. I actually had a fight last a while once, and realised that the guy was experienced a MA, So i through a couple of spins in to mess up his timing, and he was down with my second spin technique, which was a spin sidekick(easily the most effective and useful "flashy" kick).

 

[TKD USA]

Taekwondo Jump,Spin, or Jumpspin kick are not flashy and are some times very effective

 

[MJS]

I think that most of the people, myself included, who talk about or question the jump kicks, do so because we are taking other things into consideration. For example, a woman wearing high heel shoes. Now, I know someone is gonna say, "Well, she can just take them off.'' Yeah, ok. So when the rapist jumps out from behind the car and grabs onto the woman, shes gonna have time to take her shoes off?? What about the clothing that you're wearing? Now a gi is loose fitting, were a suit may not be. In addition, any time you spin, you run the risk of telegraphing your movements.

I'm speaking for myself here, but I wouldnt do a head high kick or a jump kick, considering that there are many other and often better targets lower than the head. The knee, shin, top of the foot, the leg and groin are IMO, closer targets than the head.

Mike

 

[MJS]

And a ground sweep, is effective for an attacker with a knife. Flashy too! I've done it at tournaments. To understand it more, you have to try it. I would like to try Kenpo too but there's nothing around here. :uhyeah:

Any time you attempt a kick against an attacker with a weapon, you're offering him a target.

Mike

 

[Han-Mi]

don't kick at a weapon, DUH! That can hurt. In such a case you move in and disarm. The point is that the techniques are not useless, just that the opportunity for them to be used effectively and with reason is few and far between.

 

[Brother John]

Oh yeah most definently, I enjoy watching, wouldn't even mind being able to do them. They wouldn't work in a real fight, ever. Nobody is going to let you spin around 3 times & kick them. But they are fun to watch.

Prettymuch says it all.

 

[TigerWoman]

Any time you attempt a kick against an attacker with a weapon, you're offering him a target.

Mike

Just saw this, sorry for the delay in response. That statement was too general. Are you aware how the TKD sweep works? The ground sweep is precisely for that reason-- to get your body OUT of the way. I had to do that sweep break on a board standing on end that way. I've done it at tournaments also. I suppose a leg would make a nice target to break. A fast crescent will do the same-take the knife out by kicking the wrist. Both kicks take practice and are effective when done by someone who is adept at it. TW

 

[MJS]

Just saw this, sorry for the delay in response. That statement was too general. Are you aware how the TKD sweep works? The ground sweep is precisely for that reason-- to get your body OUT of the way. I had to do that sweep break on a board standing on end that way. I've done it at tournaments also. I suppose a leg would make a nice target to break. A fast crescent will do the same-take the knife out by kicking the wrist. Both kicks take practice and are effective when done by someone who is adept at it. TW

Actually, no I'm not aware as how that kick works, and yes a leg is a good target to hit. However, I still wouldnt recommend kicking a weapon out of someones hand. Why extend another limb to the attacker and risk having it get cut or hit??? Against someone who knows how to fight with a knife, that can be a very big mistake. Can it be done? Possibly, but you said it best..."When its done by someone who is adept at it." At what point and time is someone 'going to be adept?'

Mike

 

[TigerWoman]

" At what point and time is someone 'going to be adept?'
Mike

I would prefer the ground position/sweep better against the knife. But when faced with a knife attacker, I'm better with legs from training than to muscle it away with hands, as a woman. We do alot of crescent kicking in TKD so it can be pretty fast. Misdirection can help that too – like slinging a purse. Lunging knife attacks are part of the self defense scenarios that we practice. TW

 

[MJS]

I would prefer the ground position/sweep better against the knife. But when faced with a knife attacker, I'm better with legs from training than to muscle it away with hands, as a woman. We do alot of crescent kicking in TKD so it can be pretty fast. Misdirection can help that too – like slinging a purse. Lunging knife attacks are part of the self defense scenarios that we practice. TW

Yes, I agree with the muscle aspect. I guess where I was going with that was to get control, work a counter strike and then attempt a disarm. As for being adept..I was referring to at what point in the TKD students training, will they be adept enough to execute that kick effectively?? Could you give me a brief example of a typical knife defense? This isnt my intention to turn this into a TKD bashing session, just trying to compare a TKD defense to the defenses that I do. Seeing as how I dont study TKD, I figure its best to inquire with someone who does!

Mike

 

[TigerWoman]

To MJS:
Of course, it all depends on the individual and how hard he/she trains. I was given that attack–a surprise–at my recommended bb test and I did a crescent response. It could have been faster at that point in my test, but I did it. (couldn't break his wrist-not allowed ) Now, I'm nearly 2nd dan and its been four years since. Something about after getting black belt, training as one, increased my ability in most areas. My crescent is pretty strong and I would have no problem executing it. Its the front leg kicking with a snap-outside to in-to the wrist of the hand holding the knife. The hitting point on the foot is the edge. Guys who are younger, have more talent, advance more quickly in strength, speed, can do it earlier. Its all about what you train most in. In the case of my master, 5th dan, I can't even see his front leg kick coming in before its too late. That's the effect you need to have. But I still prefer the ground sweep, that's a required break for 1st dan in our school. That's probably too hard to detail here and I don't think its wise to give out secrets of the arts on the web anyway. :asian:

 

[MJS]

To MJS:
Of course, it all depends on the individual and how hard he/she trains. I was given that attack–a surprise–at my recommended bb test and I did a crescent response. It could have been faster at that point in my test, but I did it. (couldn't break his wrist-not allowed ) Now, I'm nearly 2nd dan and its been four years since. Something about after getting black belt, training as one, increased my ability in most areas. My crescent is pretty strong and I would have no problem executing it. Its the front leg kicking with a snap-outside to in-to the wrist of the hand holding the knife. The hitting point on the foot is the edge. Guys who are younger, have more talent, advance more quickly in strength, speed, can do it earlier. Its all about what you train most in. In the case of my master, 5th dan, I can't even see his front leg kick coming in before its too late. That's the effect you need to have. But I still prefer the ground sweep, that's a required break for 1st dan in our school. That's probably too hard to detail here and I don't think its wise to give out secrets of the arts on the web anyway. :asian:

Thanks for the reply! :asian: You're absolutely correct....its all how much the person trains. Just like anything, the more you do it, the better you'll be. As for kicking....everybody has their own techs. and if you can pull it off, great. Its just something that I'd rather not do. Dont get me wrong, I can kick. In fact, I do prefer that over punching, but I'd rather not attempt that against someone holding a weapon.

Thanks for the chat!

Mike

 

[SenseiGR]

There fun to watch and to do. The one thing that I would have to add to this discussion is that spinning and jumping can be used for misdirection and confusion.Obviously, in the basic street fight, you don't need to use these techniques, but If you come up against another experienced fighter, they can be useful and effective. I actually had a fight last a while once, and realised that the guy was experienced a MA, So i through a couple of spins in to mess up his timing, and he was down with my second spin technique, which was a spin sidekick(easily the most effective and useful "flashy" kick).

Seems to me that an experienced MA would be the LAST guy you'd want to throw this flash-trash at. I'm in my mid-50s, so I'm sure I'm slower than you, Han-Mi, but if someone threw a spinning kick at my head in a real fight, they'd find themself hurt BAD.

 

[MJS]

Seems to me that an experienced MA would be the LAST guy you'd want to throw this flash-trash at. I'm in my mid-50s, so I'm sure I'm slower than you, Han-Mi, but if someone threw a spinning kick at my head in a real fight, they'd find themself hurt BAD.

I've said before that everything has its time and place. IMO, I really dont think I'd be wise to throw a spinning kick during a fight until the person is pretty much on the road to being KO'd. Then again, I can think of many other ways to finish other than throwing a spinning or jumping kick.

Mike

 

[TKD USA]

I've said before that everything has its time and place. IMO, I really dont think I'd be wise to throw a spinning kick during a fight until the person is pretty much on the road to being KO'd. Then again, I can think of many other ways to finish other than throwing a spinning or jumping kick.

Mike

Well in a fight a spin kick won't be as fast as a regular kick but lets say you are in a confrontation and someone throws a right hook punch at me I would do a spin side kick better yet a left back kick to the gut to take him out. I have used this many times with positive endings.

 

[MJS]

Well in a fight a spin kick won't be as fast as a regular kick but lets say you are in a confrontation and someone throws a right hook punch at me I would do a spin side kick better yet a left back kick to the gut to take him out. I have used this many times with positive endings.

Again, everything has its time and place. Some kicks are best suited for different situations. You have obviously used this and its worked well for you.

Mike

 

[Littledragon]

I was wanting to know what everyone thinks of all the flashy kicks & things you see websites like www.bilang.com. Do you all think they are useless or do you like them?

Nothing is useless if it can be applyed the right way. To tell you the truth I would not use those kind of kicks in a street fight but some of the kicks can be very deadly and effective. A jump spinning back kick to the solarplexes can knock the wind out of some one. BUt for the record flashy kicks are for show nothing more but if you are skilled enough to apply them for self defense by all means go for it if you feel you got the hang of it.

Tarek