What does a black belt truely mean?

[ShotoSan]

So, I have studied for 9 years, and I am only at brown stripe in shotokan, and apprentice black in Wadu... However

When sparring, I find that I have yet to be 'beaten', what ever that means... I know its a small portion of being a black belt. But even still I have taken out contless McMasters from many McDojos. Moving across the country I took time to stop in to random clubs for the night and just spar and experiance other styles....

I find that I can teach very well. Most people now only show you how to move, and rarely explain and justify why you do it. Its hard to explain, but most sensai I talk to, really... well they suck. I am having a hard time not being cocky about my skills...

Also, both my shotokan and wadu sensai cannot allow me to accept black belt till im 18. Ive gone to many clubs and they have offered me black upon the FIRST night... I hate McDojos...

I am only apprentice black, and its hard to be held back like this. Anyone else feel the same?

 

[Zepp]

Assuming that you're not just being cocky, that's great. But apparently your Wadu instructor wants something more from you. If you have faith in your instructor, you have to assume that you're not being "held back," but that you just aren't quite there yet.

All any rank really means is that your instructor/organization head(s) have a certain amount of faith in your ability, and expect you to be able to meet certain standards. That's it.

 

[Adept]

What does it truly mean? It means your pants dont fall down.

On average, a black belt is simply a standard. When you see someone with a black belt, you expect for them to be able to fight and defend themselves to a reasonable standard.

 

[Peter Steeves]

I'd have to say from my experience that a Black Belt is normally the equivalent in Japanese of "Sho Dan" or 初段 and means, "First Level."

In more practical terms, I've been told by my teacher that this level of attainment is given to someone who can truly do all the basic movements of their martial art . . . and can then begin training.

Maybe you're a good fighter, but haven't mastered the basics of your particular school of martial arts. Then again, maybe you're being "held back."

Or, more likely, you're good at your martial art, but the systems themselves have rules that say, "Must be 18 to have a Black Belt." If that's it, don't worry about it. You're as good as you are already. Keep getting better. When you reach 18, maybe you'll get your 弐段 Second Degree Black Belt.:ultracool

 

[Drac]

That sounds about right....

 

[RRouuselot]

Shotosan,


I am a bit confused. In a previous thread you said you studied under Tsuruoka who is a Chito Ryu 8/9th dan….you claimed he was the founder of Shotokan (which, as most people know, he is not) …..and by the way it’s Wado with an O not a U.

After reading several of your posts I have found several things that make me go “mmmm”. One is you obviously don’t seem to know much about the style you claim to have studied for 9 years (Shotokan) and claim a Jr. Black belt in Wad”u” which is actually Wado, plus the fact the man you claim as your teacher, Mr. Tsuruoka, actually teaches Chito Ryu.

So here is what I have concluded A) you are not what you claim in either style since 99.99% of the population that study shotokan know Funakoshi was the founder, as well as most people that have a black belt in Wad”o” know the proper spelling, You would think that after 9 years of training in shotokan you would have heard the name Funakoshi and know how he is connected to that style.

Or……. B) you are just plain lying.

Anyone else find these things a bit odd?

So, I have studied for 9 years, and I am only at brown stripe in shotokan, and apprentice black in Wadu... However

When sparring, I find that I have yet to be 'beaten', what ever that means... I know its a small portion of being a black belt. But even still I have taken out contless McMasters from many McDojos. Moving across the country I took time to stop in to random clubs for the night and just spar and experiance other styles....

I find that I can teach very well. Most people now only show you how to move, and rarely explain and justify why you do it. Its hard to explain, but most sensai I talk to, really... well they suck. I am having a hard time not being cocky about my skills...

Also, both my shotokan and wadu sensai cannot allow me to accept black belt till im 18. Ive gone to many clubs and they have offered me black upon the FIRST night... I hate McDojos...

I am only apprentice black, and its hard to be held back like this. Anyone else feel the same?

To answer what does a black belt mean???

It means you went to enough classes to get it….and means you are just now ready to start learning.

As far as you stopping in at various clubs (maybe to watch) but sparring & winning….I doubt it very much.

If I had a student with an ego like yours I would definitely give them an “attitude adjustment” they wouldn’t forget. (you see here in Japan it is unheard of for someone to sue after receiving a good *** kicking in a dojo) A big head like yours is not what the MAs are about.

 

[Dragon Fist]

Like Peter said "Shodan" means, "First Level."

This is about the time you will learn more about your Martial Arts.

Like it's history, linage...etc.



Most Japanese Martial Arts have more than just the Martial (or Fighting) aspects of it.

There is also the Healing Arts, Shodo, Kobudo and Swordsmanship and of course Language and Culture.

 

[ShotoSan]

Shotosan,


I am a bit confused. In a previous thread you said you studied under Tsuruoka who is a Chito Ryu 8/9th dan….you claimed he was the founder of Shotokan (which, as most people know, he is not) …..and by the way it’s Wado with an O not a U.

After reading several of your posts I have found several things that make me go “mmmm”. One is you obviously don’t seem to know much about the style you claim to have studied for 9 years (Shotokan) and claim a Jr. Black belt in Wad”u” which is actually Wado, plus the fact the man you claim as your teacher, Mr. Tsuruoka, actually teaches Chito Ryu.

So here is what I have concluded A) you are not what you claim in either style since 99.99% of the population that study shotokan know Funakoshi was the founder, as well as most people that have a black belt in Wad”o” know the proper spelling, You would think that after 9 years of training in shotokan you would have heard the name Funakoshi and know how he is connected to that style.

Or……. B) you are just plain lying.

Anyone else find these things a bit odd?

Hey that is a good point. I have been mispelling Wado, I only studied that for a year or so, and never really learned the spelling. The thing is with Shotokan, your absolutely right, I have NEVER heard of Tsurouka teaching anything else than Shotokan, and when I found out my current master in another martial art, I was a bit confuesd as to why he never heard of Tsurouka. I googled it, some pages will tell me that he is the founder, some will tell me hes not.

http://www.interlog.com/~brat/tkf/home.html
http://www.shitoryu.org/bios/tsuruoka/tsuruoka.htm - this one claims he is the founder of chito ryu

I am REALLY confused about what the hell Ive been studying for 9 years, which if you read other posts im making, youll find out that Ive asked about many different masters and sensais.

 

[Dragon Fist]

Shotosan,


I am a bit confused. In a previous thread you said you studied under Tsuruoka who is a Chito Ryu 8/9th dan….you claimed he was the founder of Shotokan (which, as most people know, he is not) …..and by the way it’s Wado with an O not a U.

After reading several of your posts I have found several things that make me go “mmmm”. One is you obviously don’t seem to know much about the style you claim to have studied for 9 years (Shotokan) and claim a Jr. Black belt in Wad”u” which is actually Wado, plus the fact the man you claim as your teacher, Mr. Tsuruoka, actually teaches Chito Ryu.

So here is what I have concluded A) you are not what you claim in either style since 99.99% of the population that study shotokan know Funakoshi was the founder, as well as most people that have a black belt in Wad”o” know the proper spelling, You would think that after 9 years of training in shotokan you would have heard the name Funakoshi and know how he is connected to that style.

Or……. B) you are just plain lying.

Anyone else find these things a bit odd?

He sure is right, it was Gichin Funakoshi 1868 - 1957 who founded Shotokan

 

[RRouuselot]

Like Peter said "Shodan" means, "First Level."

This is about the time you will learn more about your Martial Arts.

Like it's history, linage...etc.



Most Japanese Martial Arts have more than just the Martial (or Fighting) aspects of it.

There is also the Healing Arts, Shodo, Kobudo and Swordsmanship and of course Language and Culture.

Can you clarify what you mean by this?

 

[Dragon Fist]

If I'm correct, I think the founder of Chito Ryu was Tsuyoshi Chitose 1898 - 1984

 

[Dragon Fist]

Can you clarify what you mean by this?

The point I was trying to make to our friend here is that, when you get your black belt, it's only the beginning and not the end.

 

[RRouuselot]

On this page at the bottom there is a photo of tsuruoka and a friend of mine, Pat McCarthy, I will email Pat and see what he has to say about this guy.

http://www.shitoryu.org/bios/tsuruoka/tsuruoka.htm

 

[RRouuselot]

The point I was trying to make to our friend here is that, when you get your black belt, it's only the beginning and not the end.

thanks

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Hey that is a good point. I have been mispelling Wado, I only studied that for a year or so, and never really learned the spelling. The thing is with Shotokan, your absolutely right, I have NEVER heard of Tsurouka teaching anything else than Shotokan, and when I found out my current master in another martial art, I was a bit confuesd as to why he never heard of Tsurouka. I googled it, some pages will tell me that he is the founder, some will tell me hes not.

<snip>

I am REALLY confused about what the hell Ive been studying for 9 years, which if you read other posts im making, youll find out that Ive asked about many different masters and sensais.

Let me understand this fully:

1. You're an apprentice black in a style you've studied for a year.

2. You're unaware as to how to spell the name of that style.

3. You have a brown stripe in Shotokan, which you've studied for nine years, yet you weren't aware of the name of the founder of that art.

4. You claim on another thread you studied Shotokan under Masami Tsuruoka. He doesn't teach Shotokan. Never has. You claim to have found sites saying he was the founder of that Shotokan, but fail to provide them. You claim to have never heard him having taught anything else other than Shotokan. Tsuruoka doesn't make that claim and has no need to, given his standing in the MA community.

5. You've traveled the country seeking challenges and beating all comers, a la Miyamoto Musashi. You claim the losers were all McDojo owners lacking talent, who apparently had no qualms about sparring you. You list no legit instructors as having fallen to your skills.

6. You're now not not sure what you've been studying for nine years.

Have I recapped this correctly?


Regards,


Steve

 

[RRouuselot]

Let me understand this fully:

1. You're an apprentice black in a style you've studied for a year.

2. You're unaware as to how to spell the name of that style.

3. You have a brown stripe in Shotokan, which you've studied for nine years, yet you weren't aware of the name of the founder of that art.

4. You claim on another thread you studied Shotokan under Masami Tsuruoka. He doesn't teach Shotokan. Never has. You claim to have found sites saying he was the founder of that Shotokan, but fail to provide them. You claim to have never heard him having taught anything else other than Shotokan. Tsuruoka doesn't make that claim and has no need to, given his standing in the MA community.

5. You've traveled the country seeking challenges and beating all comers, a la Miyamoto Musashi. You claim the losers were all McDojo owners lacking talent, who apparently had no qualms about sparring you. You list no legit instructors as having fallen to your skills.

6. You're now not not sure what you've been studying for nine years.

Have I recapped this correctly?


Regards,


Steve

Looks like you pretty much nailed it from I am sitting.

 

[ShotoSan]

Let me understand this fully:

1. You're an apprentice black in a style you've studied for a year.

2. You're unaware as to how to spell the name of that style.

3. You have a brown stripe in Shotokan, which you've studied for nine years, yet you weren't aware of the name of the founder of that art.

4. You claim on another thread you studied Shotokan under Masami Tsuruoka. He doesn't teach Shotokan. Never has. You claim to have found sites saying he was the founder of that Shotokan, but fail to provide them. You claim to have never heard him having taught anything else other than Shotokan. Tsuruoka doesn't make that claim and has no need to, given his standing in the MA community

5. You've traveled the country seeking challenges and beating all comers, a la Miyamoto Musashi. You claim the losers were all McDojo owners lacking talent, who apparently had no qualms about sparring you. You list no legit instructors as having fallen to your skills.

6. You're now not not sure what you've been studying for nine years.

Have I recapped this correctly?


Regards,


Steve

Correct Steve. I am feeling very down about this fact; here a few things in regards to this.

I have first off identified that Tsurouka is the founder of Shotokan, in CANADA, or some thing of the sort, IE he organised the Tsurouka Federation where a branch of Shotokan studies.

If you have ever studied Shotokan and Wado, youll realize theyre VERY similar, I find Wado is a more relaxed version of Shotokan; its not hard to convert the belt system.

As for Tsurouka never teaching Shotokan I beg to differ, wait whilest I contact my old sensai (Moved across the country and didnt take method of communication). I do have pictures of Tsurouka, my best friend and I, all together at my Shotokan dojo. When we bowed in, we would bow to Tsurouka.

The reason I am posting is because I am very confused about what I am, and what martial arts is. To me style means nothing in the long run; most martial artists will create their own styel anyhow (after enough experiance). I was never really told about history of Japan and China till this year at my Kindai bojutsu acedemy.

You come off a little harsh, please remember I started when I was 8, and as an 8 year old we're not interested in such things as history. People make spelling mistakes, and some people are confused about the martial systems.

Even still, thanks for the feedback.
:jedi1:

 

[ShotoSan]

Actually interesting fact. In Edmonton Alberta I went to the salvation armys gym for Wado. However, talking to my friend who trains there still (I moved), the spelling of that dojo is actually Waduu. Does the spelling really matter that much? Does it differentiate the martial art?

 

[RRouuselot]

Correct Steve. I am feeling very down about this fact; here a few things in regards to this.

1) I have first off identified that Tsurouka is the founder of Shotokan, in CANADA, or some thing of the sort, IE he organised the Tsurouka Federation where a branch of Shotokan studies.

2) If you have ever studied Shotokan and Wado, youll realize theyre VERY similar, I find Wado is a more relaxed version of Shotokan; its not hard to convert the belt system.

3) As for Tsurouka never teaching Shotokan I beg to differ, wait whilest I contact my old sensai (Moved across the country and didnt take method of communication). I do have pictures of Tsurouka, my best friend and I, all together at my Shotokan dojo. When we bowed in, we would bow to Tsurouka.

4) The reason I am posting is because I am very confused about what I am, and what martial arts is. To me style means nothing in the long run; most martial artists will create their own styel anyhow (after enough experiance). I was never really told about history of Japan and China till this year at my Kindai bojutsu acedemy.

5) You come off a little harsh, please remember I started when I was 8, and as an 8 year old we're not interested in such things as history. People make spelling mistakes, and some people are confused about the martial systems.

Even still, thanks for the feedback.
:jedi1:

1)Ya need to learn how to read:

Tsuruoka N.B. has been a member of KNB since it's incorporation as a style in 1979. Initially we were Chito-Ryu Karate, until Sensei Tsuruoka formed his style in 1979.


​

THE PERSONAL HISTORY OF O SENSEI MASAMI TSURUOKA
​

Born in Cumberland, B.C. in 1929 came a man who would discover Karate and introduce it to Canada. Being of Japanese decent would lead to his family's confinement in a Canadian internment camp. After the war he would travel with his family to live in Japan. On a trip to Tokyo this man would witness a demonstration by Dr. Chitose. He was so impressed that he would follow Dr. Chitose back to Kumamoto to begin a lifetime study in the art of Karate-do.

After attaining the rank of Ni-dan in Chito-Ryu Karate-do in 1956 he returned to Canada. This time to Toronto, Ontario. In the same year, he began to introduce Karate at a Judo club and by 1958 had opened his own dojo. This would be the first Karate dojo in Canada from where Masami Tsuruoka taught Chito-Ryu. Soon after Dr. Chitose named Tsuruoka Chief Instructor of Chito-Ryu for Canada. In 1963 Tsuruoka organized the first Canadian Karate Tournament. This would lead to the formation of the NKA. This pioneer of Canadian Karate and the NKA has lead our government to recognize Tsuruoka as the Father of Canadian Karate.

Tsuruoka was visited by his Sensei Dr. Chitose in 1962, 67 and 73. During the 70's, Tsuruoka was influenced by Shotokan and began to adopt the Shotokan katas into Chito-Ryu. The introduction of these katas lead to a change in the teachings of Chito-Ryu within Canada. This lead to Tsuruoka disassociating himself with Dr. Chitose in 1979 and establishing the Tsuruoka Karate Association with dojos all across Canada.

Today, (8th dan) 0 Sensei Tsuruoka teaches out of his new dojo in Toronto when not conducting seminars across Canada or attending training camps in the USA. After 39 years of teaching, Tsuruoka shows no signs of trading in his gi for a good set of golf clubs.

2)Not surpising. Ohtsuka was Funakoshi’s student…..you do know who Ohtsuka is don’t you?

3)Don’t bother I have don’t the leg work for you.

4)Actually no most don’t create their own style….that is usually done by McDojo sensei …..by the way it is spelled SENSEI not sensAi

5)People come off hard on you because you come off like a punk kid with a big mouth that thinks he is tough. After looking at your website and seeing a photo of you and your skinny little body I have no doubt most karateka I know could kick your *** with the greatest of ease. I think you’ll find I am one of those folks on MT that if you try and BS me I won’t play “nice-nice”….I will be on you like white on rice. And I think your story about going to other dojo and beating them is pure BS.....or were they a dojo full of 90 years blind ladies in a wheelchairs.....if so then I might believe you.

 

[RRouuselot]

Actually interesting fact. In Edmonton Alberta I went to the salvation armys gym for Wado. However, talking to my friend who trains there still (I moved), the spelling of that dojo is actually Waduu. Does the spelling really matter that much? Does it differentiate the martial art?

Is it so hard to spell it correctly???