What do you think of Jake Mace?

[JowGaWolf]

Very much so. Like I said before I couldn't care less if his forms and traditional stuff are "authentic" and "proper", but his self-defence videos worry me greatly.

Here's a classic example. Someone comes at you with a knife, and Jake Mace says you should turn your back on them and then back-kick them in the solar plexus. I don't know about you but the last thing I am going to do is turn my back on someone holding a knife in my direction. This is a regular occurrence with Jake's videos, where he choses the flashiest moves possible which more often than not are unnecessary and very risky. His actual advice regarding self-defence in terms of preventing a bad situation and de-escalation are fine, but the physical techniques he employs are going to get someone killed if they try it in real life.

I know the technique at 1:11 where he breaks the hand with the elbow. I know that technique better than I know Jow Ga Kung fu and I can tell you that you would never use that technique to counter a haymaker, or a cross. The follow up after breaking the hand is also unrealistic. That technique is a one shot deal meaning you do the technique then reset into a defensive position because another punch may be coming on it's way.

Andyou are right. That knife defense is the freaking worst one I've seen.

Didn't need to see more. Still can't say I know anything about him and nor am I wanting to.

lol. oh you'll learn about mace. You have already seen one video and now you'll be tempted to watch more. Jake Mace is calling you lol. (in my creepy ghost voice) CAAAAALLLING YOOOOOOU.

But seriously Jake is in good enough shape where he can be better than what he is, if he had some legitimate training. He's got a good personality and that's why people watch him. I personally don't care about his martial arts video but I could see me handing out with him and constantly reminding that he's talking crazy when it comes to martial arts self-defense lol. Jake is definitely unique. If I were to make videos I would learn from his personality and how he presents his lessons. Jake mace could probably sell fire on the sun and ice in a blizzard.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

reading that i don't understand why people are so anal about authenticity of moves, it matters nothing if someone made them up half an hour ago, or they are hundreds of years old, they either work or they dont

It's rather unfortunate that the arts Jake chose to make videos on have practitioners who are very....particular about who represents their art and what the techniques should look like. If you look down the comments sections of his videos, you'll see that the ones he gets the most hate on are his Baguazhang, Taijiquan and Wing Chun demonstration videos. The communities of these arts typically are obsessed with lineages and the authenticity of their art, and take great offence to anyone practiting the arts "wrong".

 

[oaktree]

Because if you practice those arts they take a long time to learn and if some love-tard starts making things up it makes people think people who practice it also look like a love-tard.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

reading that i don't understand why people are so anal about authenticity of moves, it matters nothing if someone made them up half an hour ago, or they are hundreds of years old, they either work or they dont

There's some truth in that. There is, however, the issue of making verifiably (meaning they are known to as such to the person making them) untrue claims. If I claimed to be teaching Russian, but was teaching French, I'm lying. If someone claims to teach Kung Fu but aren't (and know it), they are lying. Now, if they explain they call it "Kung Fu" because the moves are derived from Kung Fu, and they make that clear, then I have no problem with them using that term - though some would, and I can't really say they are wrong to be so.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

But seriously Jake is in good enough shape where he can be better than what he is, if he had some legitimate training. He's got a good personality and that's why people watch him. I personally don't care about his martial arts video but I could see me handing out with him and constantly reminding that he's talking crazy when it comes to martial arts self-defense lol. Jake is definitely unique. If I were to make videos I would learn from his personality and how he presents his lessons. Jake mace could probably sell fire on the sun and ice in a blizzard.

You know the crazy thing is that Jake is in such good shape he could probably hold his own in a fight despite being a "fake" Martial Artist. You are right that a lot of people watch him more for his personality than his fighting skills. He is a true inspiration and people respect that, which is why his self-defence videos are so worrying to me. If he just did fitness and forms videos I would have absolutely no problem with him and would probably be subbed to him, but the techniques he's telling people to use for self-defence are going to get them hurt in a real fight. Now, you could argue that the techniques he uses could work for him in a fight, but 90% of the population aren't as fit or as flexible as him and therefore couldn't do the things he could.

 

[Flying Crane]

You know the crazy thing is that Jake is in such good shape he could probably hold his own in a fight despite being a "fake" Martial Artist. You are right that a lot of people watch him more for his personality than his fighting skills. He is a true inspiration and people respect that, which is why his self-defence videos are so worrying to me. If he just did fitness and forms videos I would have absolutely no problem with him and would probably be subbed to him, but the techniques he's telling people to use for self-defence are going to get them hurt in a real fight. Now, you could argue that the techniques he uses could work for him in a fight, but 90% of the population aren't as fit or as flexible as him and therefore couldn't do the things he could.

Why would you think he could do forms videos? If his Kung Fu is not up to snuff, then by definition his forms are no good.

Forms are not for performance. They are a training tool that help develop the skills and are common and standard method of training in most, if not all, Chinese martial arts. If his skills are no good then I have no reason to believe that he could teach anyone how to use forms properly, because obviously he hasn’t learned it properly himself.

 

[jobo]

It's rather unfortunate that the arts Jake chose to make videos on have practitioners who are very....particular about who represents their art and what the techniques should look like. If you look down the comments sections of his videos, you'll see that the ones he gets the most hate on are his Baguazhang, Taijiquan and Wing Chun demonstration videos. The communities of these arts typically are obsessed with lineages and the authenticity of their art, and take great offence to anyone practiting the arts "wrong".

that's says a lit more about them than it does about the,effectiveness of Jake mace,

for instance back in the mid 80s a had a much modified triumph Bonneville, it was a much better machine than triumph actually sold, a visit to the triumph owners club, had them in fits of pique as it wasn't original, no really they became insensed, that i had taken a hack saw and a welder to to a historic machine and made it better. It's like i had stolen from them or punched their mother.

that seems to be the same condition that wing chimneys are suffering from, an obsession that old is best and change is bad, even if the,change is for the good

 

[Tez3]

that seems to be the same condition that wing chimneys are suffering from, an obsession that old is best and change is bad, even if the,change is for the good

I think a good chimney sweep would sort any problems out.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Why would you think he could do forms videos? If his Kung Fu is not up to snuff, then by definition his forms are no good.

Forms are not for performance. They are a training tool that help develop the skills and are common and standard method of training in most, if not all, Chinese martial arts. If his skills are no good then I have no reason to believe that he could teach anyone how to use forms properly, because obviously he hasn’t learned it properly himself.

If he taught them from a fitness standpoint, he'd be fine.

 

[Flying Crane]

If he taught them from a fitness standpoint, he'd be fine.

Which is exactly NOT what forms are meant for.

Fitness is a side benefit from training, and lengthy and demanding forms can help. But first and formost, forms are for developing your fundamentals and techniques and understanding of the system.

If they are taught from a standpoint of fitness, then it exacerbates what everyone here is grumpy about: it is junk teaching. If forms are being taught as performance, or as fitness, then it is junk teaching, from the standpoint of wanting authentic and combat-effective Chinese martial arts.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

Why would you think he could do forms videos? If his Kung Fu is not up to snuff, then by definition his forms are no good.

Forms are not for performance. They are a training tool that help develop the skills and are common and standard method of training in most, if not all, Chinese martial arts. If his skills are no good then I have no reason to believe that he could teach anyone how to use forms properly, because obviously he hasn’t learned it properly himself.

I see where you are coming from, but in the end him doing the forms "wrong" isn't necessarily going to put anyone in danger. However, when he says in his self-defence videos "use this technique to win any street fight" and then does a spinning back kick against someone brandishing a knife at them, that could have very dire consequences if someone actually did that in a live situation.

that's says a lit more about them than it does about the,effectiveness of Jake mace,

for instance back in the mid 80s a had a much modified triumph Bonneville, it was a much better machine than triumph actually sold, a visit to the triumph owners club, had them in fits of pique as it wasn't original, no really they became insensed, that i had taken a hack saw and a welder to to a historic machine and made it better. It's like i had stolen from them or punched their mother.

that seems to be the same condition that wing chimneys are suffering from, an obsession that old is best and change is bad, even if the,change is for the good

I agree. Maybe it's because I don't practice any of the arts he makes videos on so I can't understand the atrocities he is making in butchering the forms and techniques. Now, we could argue to the ends of the Earth whether his interpretation is more effective than the traditional ways, but at the end of the day I see nothing inherently wrong with him posting videos of himself doing forms.

 

[Flying Crane]

I see where you are coming from, but in the end him doing the forms "wrong" isn't necessarily going to put anyone in danger. However, when he says in his self-defence videos "use this technique to win any street fight" and then does a spinning back kick against someone brandishing a knife at them, that could have very dire consequences if someone actually did that in a live situation.



I agree. Maybe it's because I don't practice any of the arts he makes videos on so I can't understand the atrocities he is making in butchering the forms and techniques. Now, we could argue to the ends of the Earth whether his interpretation is more effective than the traditional ways, but at the end of the day I see nothing inherently wrong with him posting videos of himself doing forms.

See my previous post, #50.

 

[Flying Crane]

I see where you are coming from, but in the end him doing the forms "wrong" isn't necessarily going to put anyone in danger. However, when he says in his self-defence videos "use this technique to win any street fight" and then does a spinning back kick against someone brandishing a knife at them, that could have very dire consequences if someone actually did that in a live situation.



I agree. Maybe it's because I don't practice any of the arts he makes videos on so I can't understand the atrocities he is making in butchering the forms and techniques. Now, we could argue to the ends of the Earth whether his interpretation is more effective than the traditional ways, but at the end of the day I see nothing inherently wrong with him posting videos of himself doing forms.

I see you train Fujian crane. Would you say it is ok to teach the forms of Fujian crane as a form of sloppy cardio-kickboxing for example, in a gym?

Would you feel that is an appropriate way to use and teach the forms?

 

[Midnight-shadow]

I see you train Fujian crane. Would you say it is ok to teach the forms of Fujian crane as a form of sloppy cardio-kickboxing for example, in a gym?

Would you feel that is an appropriate way to use and teach the forms?

If people want to use the forms in that manner, who am I to say they can't? As I said before, him doing the forms "wrong" isn't going to put anyone in danger, unlike what he does with his self-defence videos telling people to use ridiculous techniques in inappropriate situations that could get them seriously hurt.

 

[Flying Crane]

If people want to use the forms in that manner, who am I to say they can't? As I said before, him doing the forms "wrong" isn't going to put anyone in danger, unlike what he does with his self-defence videos telling people to use ridiculous techniques in inappropriate situations that could get them seriously hurt.

Of course people can do what they want, we can’t stop them. But forms are understood to be part of legitimate Kung Fu training. Teaching forms poorly can also make people think they have learned something that they have not. It can be just as deceptive.

 

[JowGaWolf]

He is a true inspiration and people respect that, which is why his self-defence videos are so worrying to me

You make a valid point. I know I have already told my students not to follow his applications for self-defense purposes because of the reason you stated. It's only a matter of time before they watch a few of his videos.

 

[jobo]

I see where you are coming from, but in the end him doing the forms "wrong" isn't necessarily going to put anyone in danger. However, when he says in his self-defence videos "use this technique to win any street fight" and then does a spinning back kick against someone brandishing a knife at them, that could have very dire consequences if someone actually did that in a live situation.



I agree. Maybe it's because I don't practice any of the arts he makes videos on so I can't understand the atrocities he is making in butchering the forms and techniques. Now, we could argue to the ends of the Earth whether his interpretation is more effective than the traditional ways, but at the end of the day I see nothing inherently wrong with him posting videos of himself doing forms.

but he looks more,effective than the average wing,chimney does,,if he has modified the techniques, then it makes,sense he has modified the forms, to suit.

the complainers,don't own the name or how the forms are done

 

[TigerHeart]

Well, I actually believe every word Jake said until I feel something fishy after others comment about him.

 

[Dirty Dog]

As I said before, him doing the forms "wrong" isn't going to put anyone in danger,

I have never studied Wing Chun, but I disagree with this statement. Forms (as we use them and teach them) are an important teaching tool. Done properly, they help train specific movements as well as aid in the development of power, balance, timing...
Doing them improperly will not only adversely affect learning the movements and techniques, but can be the direct cause of injury. Just as one example, an improperly thrown punch or kick can hyperextend joints. Ouch.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Which is exactly NOT what forms are meant for.

Fitness is a side benefit from training, and lengthy and demanding forms can help. But first and formost, forms are for developing your fundamentals and techniques and understanding of the system.

If they are taught from a standpoint of fitness, then it exacerbates what everyone here is grumpy about: it is junk teaching. If forms are being taught as performance, or as fitness, then it is junk teaching, from the standpoint of wanting authentic and combat-effective Chinese martial arts.

Just because they aren't meant for that, that doesn't mean they wouldn't be useful for it, if separated from the martial application. Tai chi forms are often used just for fitness. There are some forms that were developed specifically for muscular development; a friend who was trained in something (some form of Karate, I think) showed me one of them.