Joab wrote:
Joab
Regarding Aikido not working against a determined attacker I suggest that you take your time buying others ‘truths’ and adapting their truth as ‘the’ truth. I might suggest that you actually try a little quality Aikido and give it a go attacking someone well trained and then forming your opinion.
Can't do that, no aikido school in my area
Many ‘experts’ have their biases formed by their experiences without testing or retesting, they can easily get stuck in the 'expert box' where the fear of looking bad or being shown up grows and grows and makes their box smaller and smaller. For instance some experts stay in their world in their niche and never venture out trying other martial arts. They have plenty of people come to them so they have an idea of what different martial arts do and how they (the experts) and their arts compare. The problem of course is that they set up the comparing under their terms doing those things that they have done thousands of times and those that visit them are rarely highly trained in the other art and are trying to learn the experts art not show up the expert. Not all experts stay in their cave and preach to their choir but go out and honestly train with equally qualified practitioners of other arts. You can tell these experts from the others not only by their movements and skills but by their informed understanding of other arts or the way they qualify their statements when conversing about other arts. Taking an experts opinion is fine and dandy but before making it your own it needs to be tested and verified multiple times. Once accepted it is very good to take your own truths and retest them and verify that the opinion still holds water and do so repeatedly and be grateful if your opinion changes over time and other experiences.
Joab: Well, Sifu John N. Beall told me he challenged an Aikido school to grab one of his punches and wristlock it. They said, "That's because your a Sifu" He told them try to grab any of his student punches and put them in a wristlock-it can't be done. It was my understanding the school didn't accept his challenge. American Combato founder and 10th degree black belt Bradley J. Steiner also told me it was not possible to place a wrist lock on somebody who throws a punch at you-presumably someone who know how to punch.
Regarding action vs. reaction you are correct. Action is usually faster than reaction. This is a truth. The action in this case being a punch will be faster than a reaction -no matter if that reaction is a punch or a throw or a turn around and run if both people have equal understandings of timing reflexes awareness and sensitivity. It is true that many Aikido-ka especially the very new will have a difficult time dealing with say a boxers jab. LOL so do many boxers LOL. The trick of course is…and I am hoping to be able to articulate this so that it is understandable…it is much easier to demonstrate in person, if the attacker throws the punch because the timing and the range was correct for the punch and it was their choice then they initiated the attack, but just because they throw a punch doesn’t mean that they initiated the attack. A punch can initiated by the opponent not the one throwing the punch. By being aware of range timing and reactions a person can be manipulated into throwing a predetermined attack to a predetermined target. If this is practiced and understood then even though the puncher is ’initiating’ the attack in truth they are reacting to the ‘defenders’ action and are usually a beat behind physically and mentally.
Joab, it may feel others are jumping on you and your opinions. I hope you understand that they do so from a deeper understanding that you admittedly currently possess. I like you (I think) am in the Seattle area and know where you are coming from (which is why I am taking the time responding to your posts). The timing of this thread and your posts are very fortunate as is your location. I
VERY STRONGLY recommend that you attend this seminar this weekend!!
http://www.aikiweb.com/workshop/
George Ledyard, Toby Threadgill, and Aaron Clark
March 20-22, 2009
in Seattle, WA
Three instructors from three different lineages will share their budo experience during this three-day workshop. They will present different but compatible approaches to the physical application of techniques and principles from their arts of Aikido, Takamura-ha Shindo Yoshin Ryu, and Jiyushinkai Aikibudo.
Hosted by: Two Cranes Aikido Dojo, Seattle WA.
I have had the opportunity to work quite a bit with George Ledyard who is local in our area Joab http://aikieast.com and can recommend him for training with out any reservations at all no matter how fast your hands are. He has been tested and challenged before and finds it amusing and no big deal at all. I have also had a little experience with Toby Threadgill who is out of Colorado (I suggest that you do a google search of him and his art) and I can also recommend him for training without reservations and I really enjoy his sword work as well as his empty hand work. I do not yet have experience with Aaron Clark but have observed his father teach and was impressed by his practical knowledge and skill. Both Aaron and his father recently moved to the Seattle area and have great reputations. You might notice the “budo” term in their art. I am not really following this seminar but knowing two of the three instructors and something of the other art I am thinking that this would be a great event for you to test your and your experts opinions of Aikido and Aiki type of arts not to mention the chance to train with three world class instructors in three different arts at one seminar.
Joab: I don't live in Seattle any longer, I now live in Delaware.
You might also notice that these instructors are willing to teach and show their art along side other arts and at seminars open to any that wish to attend.
Your journey has just started Joab and I envy you your newness. You have so much to discover and explore and you are living in a great martial arts area during an unprecedented time of sharing and growth.
Joab: I started my journey years ago, but I haven't advanced very far. A lot of starts and stops to be honest along the way.
If you attend the seminar please say hello to George for me (I am debating about attending Sunday but my schedule is giving me fits grrrr) and please post your observations. Also if they do not happen to cover the type of attacks you wonder about or have reservations over the effectiveness both George and Toby are open to questions and able to demonstrate the answers and their opinions. I am sure that Aaron is also cut from the same cloth.
Good luck and Best wishes sir, I hope that we get a chance to train together sometime in the future
Regards
Brian King
