What do you think about Kajukenbo?

[The Kai]

Yeah, I wanted to "throw" that flag post in there. How is this related to KJKB? Everything. Because to pay homage to a art does not mean to pay homage to the country of origin. Paying homage to a art can be done by many ways. KJKB has done this in a way of mixing other arts to form one. ALL martial arts have a foundation based on other arts. Thus, they too branch off and create their own. Do you think the Chinese Boxing Club has a Amercian flag in their gym? Do you think the Korean Fencing Club has a French flag in theirs? And so on...

if the club in question is in chins there should be chinese, once the club comes to america (or where ever) the flag is american. Is'nt that suppossed to be the deal? Allegence to the country you are in? I

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

if the club in question is in chins there should be chinese, once the club comes to america (or where ever) the flag is american. Is'nt that suppossed to be the deal? Allegence to the country you are in? I

Personally, I don't care what flag they fly. As long as I am not required to salute a foreign flag.

 

[Danjo]

Well, Mike:

I have never met a Kajukenbo guy who could not fight. I've met a few Kenpo and Kempo people who could not fight.

MOST of the TKD guys I've met couldn't fight. They had pretty kicks, but fighting was not their forte'. Of course, I'm not talking about the point sparring matches, but rather boxing gloves, free sparring.

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

MOST of the TKD guys I've met couldn't fight. They had pretty kicks, but fighting was not their forte'. Of course, I'm not talking about the point sparring matches, but rather boxing gloves, free sparring.

I agree. Most of the TKD people I've met could not fight. However, every person I've met from this school could fight.

http://www.goldenstatetkd.com/

Some became successful pro boxers and kickboxers. They've also produced Olympic Gold Medalists who could punch as well as kick.

 

[DavidCC]

You actually have to get to the advanced levels before they teach you the techniques that tickle.

OMFG I have to clean my monitor FUNNIEST POST EVER

 

[DavidCC]

Michigan,

Ina real fight you know when you have lost.

In a discussion like this it is not so obvious, solet me help

YOU LOSE! YOU ARE WRONG!

 

[BlackCatBonz]

Michigan,

Ina real fight you know when you have lost.

In a discussion like this it is not so obvious, solet me help

YOU LOSE! YOU ARE WRONG!

now thats funny

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Michigan,

Ina real fight you know when you have lost.

In a discussion like this it is not so obvious, solet me help

YOU LOSE! YOU ARE WRONG!

That is really funny...especially when it comes from a "Shaolin Kempo" guy. Isn't this like the pot calling the kettle "black"?

 

[James Kovacich]

Well, Mike:

I have never met a Kajukenbo guy who could not fight. I've met a few Kenpo and Kempo people who could not fight.

Back in the 70's and 80's, there was a Kajukenbo club in the East Bay called "Crazy Dragons". These guys would go to tournaments and fight hard. I lost more matches to these guys than I won. The Crazy Dragons were very aggressive and were pretty willing to throw down in the parking lot outside the tournament if they weren't happy with the way things went. I think they were Gaylord Method, but I'm not sure.

Thanx for the compliment. That was the school I attended in the mid to late '70's. We were Gaylord method but Sigi left as a brown belt and eventually ended up under Joseph Bautista.

I guess we may have unknowingly crossed paths some time ago. :asian:

 

[47MartialMan]

if the club in question is in chins there should be chinese, once the club comes to america (or where ever) the flag is american. Is'nt that suppossed to be the deal? Allegence to the country you are in? I

I mean to you think that people, other than Korea, take Japan or France, whom practice TKD, many display the Korean Flag?

And what is with the Korean flag.

Its symbols are old Chinese variety-right?

 

[DavidCC]

That is really funny...especially when it comes from a "Shaolin Kempo" guy. Isn't this like the pot calling the kettle "black"?

That's coming from someone who can see that this guy hasn't made one coherent argument to support his negative comments.

Are you saying you agree with MichiganTKD? Or just like takin pot shots? Good one, you got me ooooo Zing!

 

[MichiganTKD]

Actually David, I've made many coherent statements. Whether or not you choose to agree with them is a different matter. That's the nature of opinions. They are a person's viewpoints.
And OFK is correct in this: I have at least heard of Kajukenbo. What exactly is Shaolin Kenpo? That I've never heard of. And I've heard of lots of styles.

 

[The Kai]

MTKD
There are two branchs of Shaolin Kenpo

One is from GM Ralph Castro, whom studied directly with GM Chow. The "Shaolin" does not designate any direct lineage or connection to the Shaolin Kung Fu styles-But rathere a homage to the Shaolin Temple. Whether there any more "Shaoliness" in the style is open to debate
(next thread)
The other Shaolin Kenpo (also spelled Kempo) comes from GM Villari who studied up tp 1st Degree Black Belt with GM Nick Cerio. Again no direct connection to the Shaolin Kung fu styles
So now you know enough to start throwing opinions around, have at!!
BTW I know the its off thread But TKD as successfully lowered the bar so far that no one even blinks at Black belts who are like 6 years old

 

[MichiganTKD]

Of course I could also say the same things about Kaju Kenpo or Kempo Jujitsu: What exactly are they?

So basically Ralph Castro named his style after something it probably has nothing to do with. Nice. He didn't hang around with the Hwa Rang Do people did he?

And what exactly differentiates the Kenpo of Castro from that of Ed Parker except for a spelling error?

 

[Danjo]

Actually David, I've made many coherent statements. Whether or not you choose to agree with them is a different matter. That's the nature of opinions. They are a person's viewpoints.
And OFK is correct in this: I have at least heard of Kajukenbo. What exactly is Shaolin Kenpo? That I've never heard of. And I've heard of lots of styles.

Shaolin Kempo has been around a long time. It's a direct decendant of Kajukenbo. Kajukenbo black belt Sonny Gascon broke off and established Karazenpo Go Shinjitsu. One of his black belts, George Pesare went to New England and taught there. One of his black belts, Nick Cerio, taught Fred Villari who changed the name to Shaolin Kempo and taught it in his studios. Depending on when one learned it, and from whom one learned it, Shaolin Kempo is a very solid martial art. Unfortunately, most of what is taught these days is watered down in terms of the requirements for technical proficiency as it has become far too comercialized. That's what OFK meant when he said that about SK making fun of TKD (though I don't think that's what Dave was doing. I think he was saying that Michigan TKD was shown to be wrong about Kajukenbo). The solid Shaolin Kempo that's being taught now a days, is usually found in privately owned break off schools where they can be strict and not conflict with a larger organization that's more worried about making money than producing good students. You're all wet about Kajukenbo though. Those guys never compromised their standards.

 

[The Kai]

Of course I could also say the same things about Kaju Kenpo or Kempo Jujitsu: What exactly are they?

So basically Ralph Castro named his style after something it probably has nothing to do with. Nice. He didn't hang around with the Hwa Rang Do people did he?

And what exactly differentiates the Kenpo of Castro from that of Ed Parker except for a spelling error?

I think GM Castro was inspired by the naming of Tae Kwon Do, after all, wasn't Choi the one that heard the name Tae Kyonn from a Caligraphy teacher and with never having studied the art was so inspired named the Shotokan system he was studing Tang So Do (which is of course the Koran pronouncation of the Karate), which later would become Tae kwon Do

With the limited knowledge of EPAK, I would say Parker's Kenpo reflects a lot more time with the Chinese Martial Arts Community

BTW-the infamous spelling error was between Parker's keNpo and Mitoses's KeMpo.

 

[James Kovacich]

And what exactly differentiates the Kenpo of Castro from that of Ed Parker except for a spelling error?

SGM Castro is a Chow student, not a parker student.

 

[James Kovacich]

zation that's more worried about making money than You're all wet about Kajukenbo though. Those guys never compromised their standards.

Not only that. Emperado has set his system up with the 9th degree Grandmasters. I'm sure he did it on purpose so that after his passing each Grandmaster has his own line and "no need for self promotion and infighting."

A quiet genious.

 

[DavidCC]

Actually David, I've made many coherent statements. Whether or not you choose to agree with them is a different matter. That's the nature of opinions. They are a person's viewpoints.
And OFK is correct in this: I have at least heard of Kajukenbo. What exactly is Shaolin Kenpo? That I've never heard of. And I've heard of lots of styles.

You've never heard of Shaolin Kempo? haha I don't know if that was an attempt to zing me or my style LOL it didn't work. If you count number of schools or number of students, it's in the top handful of popular styles in the US. It's just not that popular in the midwest. So, you having never heard of it tells more about you than about Shaolin Kempo.

but anyway...

You move beyond stating opinion when you say something like "it does not teach these things". That's an assertion of fact (incorrect fact, but asserted as fact). Now, if you said "They don't teach them very well" that would be an opinion. So you are asserting things as facts which you cannot support.

And what I meant by "coherent argument" - just answer the simple question - what experiecne do you have with Kajukenbo that leads you to believe that the style does not teach "moral substance"?? You repeatedly asserted this but have no evidence to back it up, and have related no pesonal experience that could have given you this impression. You know, if you went to a Kaju school and they didn't teach that stuff, then your opinion would be a lot more valid that it is coming off as now.

So what do I think of Kajukenbo - I am proud that Shaolin Kempo is so closely realted to such a well-designed art, and the more my SK resembles Kaju, the more I like it. Given SK's reputation for McDojoism (thanks Mr. Demasco) I have personally put to rest all of my concerns that my style might be a sham, or that my training might be weak or unalive or ineffective. We train hard and we train alive and we train to be the one that gets to go home after the fight.

 

[DavidCC]

Shaolin Kempo has been around a long time. It's a direct decendant of Kajukenbo. Kajukenbo black belt Sonny Gascon broke off and established Karazenpo Go Shinjitsu. One of his black belts, George Pesare went to New England and taught there...

Not to be too nit-picky, but Pesare was only ever ranked to purple belt by Sijo Gascon. Well, later on, like in early 2000's, he was given some high dan rank... but when he moved from the west coast to east in the 70s he was a purple belt. Clearly a talented Martial Artist, don't get me wrong... but he was not a black belt when he started teaching (and promoting people) in New England.