What do you call an art that integrates striking and grappling?

[Kung Fu Wang]

there are tons of examples within MMA of using grappling to establish a dominant position for striking ...

You can also use striking to obtain clinch such as:

- straight punch to set up pull guard.
- hook punch to set up under hook (or waist wrap).
- uppercut to set up under hook (or head lock).
- back fist to set up back arm control.
- ...

 

[skribs]

Just saying, the reason you excluded MMA is mostly how MMA is done. The idea that people in MMA aren't using one to set up the other constantly just tells me you've never trained with MMA guys

Most of what I've seen from MMA is:

• Fake a strike so you can shoot
• Wait for a strike so you can shoot
• Strike them for points while figuring out where to grapple

Aside from those emulating Muay Thai clinching, or the ground and pound, I don't see much of this concept used. Typically if someone uses an armlock, they will try to get the submission from the armlock. If they strike while they have an armlock, it's a backup because they couldn't get the submission.

Whereas someone in Karate, Kung Fu, or Taekwondo would use the armlock to intentionally create an advantaged striking position.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

@TSDTexan you beat me to the punch line

That is just awful, Christopher. I hope you're proud of yourself.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Looking for a more general term than a specific art. I did mention Karate in my OP.

When using the discrete terms "grappling" and "striking", I've usually heard those combining them called "hybrid" or "blended" arts.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Most of what I've seen from MMA is:

• Fake a strike so you can shoot
• Wait for a strike so you can shoot
• Strike them for points while figuring out where to grapple

Aside from those emulating Muay Thai clinching, or the ground and pound, I don't see much of this concept used. Typically if someone uses an armlock, they will try to get the submission from the armlock. If they strike while they have an armlock, it's a backup because they couldn't get the submission.

Whereas someone in Karate, Kung Fu, or Taekwondo would use the armlock to intentionally create an advantaged striking position.

That might be true of folks who are significantly more able on the ground (people whose primary focus is BJJ, for instance), but that wouldn't be true of those folks who are primarily strikers.

The reason people rarely strike while doing an armlock is that it can compromise the armlock. If the armlock is working, there's no need to add strikes. If it's not working as a submission, but is working as a restraint, a grappler might hold it for a bit to wait for a chance to transition to something more effective. Most strikers are less likely to get that arm lock than to be going for a control position to start ground-n-pound, as Steve pointed out.

Note that when I say "striker" or "grappler", I'm referring to their primary strength. Nobody I've seen in recent years in high-level MMA is entirely lacking either of these sides.

 

[drop bear]

Most of what I've seen from MMA is:

• Fake a strike so you can shoot
• Wait for a strike so you can shoot
• Strike them for points while figuring out where to grapple

Aside from those emulating Muay Thai clinching, or the ground and pound, I don't see much of this concept used. Typically if someone uses an armlock, they will try to get the submission from the armlock. If they strike while they have an armlock, it's a backup because they couldn't get the submission.

Whereas someone in Karate, Kung Fu, or Taekwondo would use the armlock to intentionally create an advantaged striking position.

I think you are trying for something silat ish.

The reason MMA don't really do that is because you are farting around in pretty much your oponants best position to punch you.

I have tried it and I usually get panel beaten.

It is usually the domain of these street sort of guys because it feels super cool as a drill.

Otherwise wrestling, collar tie, underhooks or two on one will kind of achieve the same result.

 

[skribs]

I think you are trying for something silat ish.

The reason MMA don't really do that is because you are farting around in pretty much your oponants best position to punch you.

I have tried it and I usually get panel beaten.

It is usually the domain of these street sort of guys because it feels super cool as a drill.

Otherwise wrestling, collar tie, underhooks or two on one will kind of achieve the same result.

I'm not looking for a specific art, but what would you categorize this as.

For example, if I said, "what would you call an art that mainly uses punches and kicks" you would call it "striking".

 

[drop bear]

I'm not looking for a specific art, but what would you categorize this as.

For example, if I said, "what would you call an art that mainly uses punches and kicks" you would call it "striking".

Ok. Let's call it clinch striking.

 

[MetalBoar]

I'm not looking for a specific art, but what would you categorize this as.

For example, if I said, "what would you call an art that mainly uses punches and kicks" you would call it "striking".

Trapping?

 

[skribs]

Trapping?

I can see that working.

But traps I think of as reactive (i.e. you think of a trap as having a trigger), and this could be proactive as well.

 

[Steve]

Ok. Let's call it clinch striking.

Strappling? Grab punching? Grunching?

 

[Steve]

I can see that working.

But traps I think of as reactive (i.e. you think of a trap as having a trigger), and this could be proactive as well.

You clearly have something in particular in mind. Why not share with the group?

 

[Martial D]

Most of what I've seen from MMA is:

• Fake a strike so you can shoot
• Wait for a strike so you can shoot
• Strike them for points while figuring out where to grapple

Aside from those emulating Muay Thai clinching, or the ground and pound, I don't see much of this concept used. Typically if someone uses an armlock, they will try to get the submission from the armlock. If they strike while they have an armlock, it's a backup because they couldn't get the submission.

Whereas someone in Karate, Kung Fu, or Taekwondo would use the armlock to intentionally create an advantaged striking position.

You have created a false dichotomy. Sure, most people will try to finish a clinched armbar, but that doesn't mean people don't also use it to transition or strike if that's the best option. The same goes with throwing strikes to get a grappling position.

Everyone that trains in MMA does this stuff.

What you are talking about may have been somewhat true in 2001, but not so much these days.

 

[PhotonGuy]

There is another discussion I want to have, but before I get to that discussion, I need some help with terminology. Or maybe opinions if there isn't an agreed-upon fact.

What do you call it when an art mixes striking and grappling techniques? Not like MMA, which typically will either strike in order to set up a take-down, or when stalemated in the grapple will throw some punches for points. But arts which use grappling to isolate your opponent's limbs and then attack from an advantaged position?

For example, using an arm lock to tie up one of your opponent's arms and keep the other arm pointed away from you, so that you can strike with your free arm unimpeded.

I've seen this kind of thing in the self defense portion of a more traditional Taekwondo class, and I've seen it in Kung Fu, Wing Chun and various Karate tutorials. I've seen the concept in Hapkido and Aikido (although usually a strike isn't thrown from there).

It kind of also applies to the Muay-Thai clinch, although that is a slightly different application than the others on my mind.

But back to my question - is there a name for this concept? We have "striking" and "grappling", but what about the concept of using one to break your opponent's structure, with which to allow you to use the other?

The Gracies do that.

 

[drop bear]

You clearly have something in particular in mind. Why not share with the group?

Yeah. I could set something up with underhooks and half Nelson's and stuff.

It would be sort of doable.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Strappling? Grab punching? Grunching?

I vote for "grunching". It has a satisfying onomatopoeia-ishness (what the heck is the adjective for that??).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You clearly have something in particular in mind. Why not share with the group?

I think he's just reaching for a non-style-specific term, like we have with "grappling" and "striking". A way to refer in one word to arts and systems that do both.

 

[Martial D]

I think he's just reaching for a non-style-specific term, like we have with "grappling" and "striking". A way to refer in one word to arts and systems that do both.

Hmm. Like, some sort of..hybrid..like..a mix of striking and grappling. A mix of martial arts that incorporates both...

What could we call it. Hmmmmmmmmmm.

NO IDEA!

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I'm actually a fan of strappling. Petition to make that the MartialTalk Approved (TM) word for any art sort of hybrid or mixed martial art/competition? I would just love to hear people talk about the importance of strappling in competition.

 

[Martial D]

I'm actually a fan of strappling. Petition to make that the MartialTalk Approved (TM) word for any art sort of hybrid or mixed martial art/competition? I would just love to hear people talk about the importance of strappling in competition.

To me that sounds too much like some perverted millennial sex practice you could only learn about on urban dictionary...or maybe in Germany.