Were Shaolin Monks Really Ancient Masters of Kung Fu?

[isshinryuronin]

I learned that Kung Fu started in the Shaolin temple in Henan Province after the arrival of Bodhidharma around 600, the monks being masters of empty hand fighting. My recent reading leads me to believe this story is not entirely accurate, that their bare-handed fighting skills actually came much later.

There's some early documentation of the monks taking part in military battles. The main weapon in ancient war was the spear. By 1600 they had a reputation for being expert in this weapon as well as the staff, as related in military expert Cheng Zongyou's "Exposition of the Original Shaolin Staff Method" in about 1610. Prior to this time, very little was written regarding Shaolin empty hand combat, most all references talking about weapons. This is not to say they did not have some method of empty hand combat, but it was a distant second compared to pole arms proficiency.

The Northern region was taken over in the mid-1600's by the Qing and the temple was destroyed, sending many surviving monks to the South. With the demise of the monk's relationship with weaponized warfare the empty hand arts grew in importance. The Shaolin art evolved from a military weapon-based art to a civilian hand-based art, leading to chuan fa as we know it. (Early Karate experienced a somewhat similar evolution.)

How does this correlate with the prevailing chuan fa history as you know it?

 

[Same Trick]

Some source claim the mural at the Shaolin temple depicting monks in pugilistic sparring is some 500 years old, could maybe be so. There are depictions of boxers that’s nearly 3000 years old from Egypt, Greece and even Sumer., and the amazing Roman “resting boxer” bronze sculpture from 200 BC.
I don’t know if there in China are other and older boxing definitions than the Shaolin mural, perhaps there are wrestling but I’m not sure about fistfighting.
Fighting/warrior monks was also something that existed in Japan in the 12-13th centuries, apparently they used halberds/spears as weapons.
Then of course there was the Knight Templars and similar orders of Europe that could perhaps be counted as monastic warrior orders ?
But only the Shaolin seems to have developed pugilistic interest .
Places around in Henan were Shaolins located was sort of end stations of the silk road were trader and other from mainly Persia came to settle bringing with them new traditions and culture. Similar was Fujian with Fushiu a hub and port for the maritime silk”road”.
Tying the Chinese martial arts back to ancient figures of importance was/is a thing to give it a more solid authentic ancient story of origin

 

[Appledog]

Huigang and Sengchou (from the northern wei period, before Damo's arrival) are known from the Buddhist canon to have been highly skilled in martial arts. After Damo came to Shaolin, his disciple Huike was also a highly trained martial arts expert. Hua Tuo's teachings also had martial arts applications and that was more than 300 years before Damo.

 

[Same Trick]

Yes the various Chinese martial arts tell their origin from famous historical often semi mythological figures, if it is a religious figurehead, scholar genius or a medical hero, it put on a sort of honorable and sophisticated shine to the art of kicking butts.
Of course those famous legendary scholarly patriarchs could have known something about how to shoot an arrow and poke with a spear.
Huike cutting off his arm in order to become Bodhidharma’s disciple was probably not literally but maybe just a vow to never be KungFu fighting again.
Hua Tou was the physician of the highness himself - the martial god Guan Yu, of course Mr.Hua could have picked up a move or two, but in vain, he was executed failing to cure CaoCao in another story.

Anyway , tying a martial art far back in ancient time to personas of legends is most probably just a tradition of fancy storytelling than a fact.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Shaolin training was originally, very hard and strenuous sometimes brutal. They were not playing around. I have no doubt they were pretty good fighters. Today the Shaolin forms are just that forms, the fighting bits come from Sanshou. However it can still be rather strenuous. Some Chinese kids go there so they can be inshape for and qualify for the military.

I have seen a couple guys from Shaolin doing demos and the speed with which they do thier forms is amazing. I can only think (basically IMO) that with the traditional training they had way back when, they were pretty darn good and awfully darn fast

 

[windwalker099]

Yes the various Chinese martial arts tell their origin from famous historical often semi mythological figures, if it is a religious figurehead, scholar genius or a medical hero, it put on a sort of honorable and sophisticated shine to the art of kicking butts.
Of course those famous legendary scholarly patriarchs could have known something about how to shoot an arrow and poke with a spear.
Huike cutting off his arm in order to become Bodhidharma’s disciple was probably not literally but maybe just a vow to never be KungFu fighting again.
Hua Tou was the physician of the highness himself - the martial god Guan Yu, of course Mr.Hua could have picked up a move or two, but in vain, he was executed failing to cure CaoCao in another story.

Anyway , tying a martial art far back in ancient time to personas of legends is most probably just a tradition of fancy storytelling than a fact.

The history is interesting

 

[Appledog]

Lol, Shaolin monks. Why are you asking these questions?

Difficult training came much later. Originally the arts were developed within the monastery for monk's use, and were based on the gentle and natural methods that were found in traditional Chinese medicine. The hardness came about later when people tried to force the skills within a few short years for the un-natural purposes of war. Most of what was taught in the original schools is still passed down in buddhist lineages today, in temples, by monks, but it is not at all like what you would expect to be kung fu.

You won't understand unless you are a monk.