Weight
- Thread starter rabbit
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I could have gone all day without that question....
Weight is relative. Muscle weighs more then fat. How is the weight distributed...there are so many factors to it, it's not even funny.
I - personally - am sick and tired of the weight obsession.
It is the fitness that is of the ultimate concern. Are skinnier people more agile? Not really - unless they are more agile. There are people that just have no ability in physical matters whatsoever. They try hard, they just don't have it, while I have seen 'fat' people with a lot of grace.
I am 5'5" and right now at around 110-116 lbs. and at the absolute worst shape of my life. I lost a lot of weight, and all came off the substance as I did not have any fat reserves.
Unless you compare fighters at the same training stage, weight says exactly nothing. Maybe bigger people are a bit slower, maybe a smaller person can move a bit faster...but there are so many different body types, there is just no way to give a definitive answer!
Weight is relative. Muscle weighs more then fat. How is the weight distributed...there are so many factors to it, it's not even funny.
I - personally - am sick and tired of the weight obsession.
It is the fitness that is of the ultimate concern. Are skinnier people more agile? Not really - unless they are more agile. There are people that just have no ability in physical matters whatsoever. They try hard, they just don't have it, while I have seen 'fat' people with a lot of grace.
I am 5'5" and right now at around 110-116 lbs. and at the absolute worst shape of my life. I lost a lot of weight, and all came off the substance as I did not have any fat reserves.
Unless you compare fighters at the same training stage, weight says exactly nothing. Maybe bigger people are a bit slower, maybe a smaller person can move a bit faster...but there are so many different body types, there is just no way to give a definitive answer!
Kwan Jang
Purple Belt
The more lean body mass that you can keep in the natural strength curve of your body (i.e. Balanced and proportionate), the more it will enhance your athletic performance. Of course, you will still have to develop the proper coordination and skill to make effective use of that lean tissue (muscle).
A short answer is this...additional weight becomes a disadvantage when the bearer lacks sufficient strength, endurance and flexibility to accomplish the tasks required of him or her while carrying that extra weight.
turtle
Orange Belt
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Great answer. There was a guy, about 20 years ago, who fought in the heavyweight division at USTU events and he was just massive, built like a linebacker, but he could drop an axe kick onto his opponent's head at the speed you usually see in the lightweight divisions. Amazing to watch and often quite dangerous for people who had never seen him fight and went charging thinking he was going to be a slow plodding kind of fighter. Wish I could remember his name.
In the last year's junior olympic...our top heavyweight fighter (who has a classic TKD build, tall, long, lots of lean muscle) ended up paired against a guy who had a 50 to 80 pounds on him. Tall, and blocky. Our guy figured he'd be able ot keep distance and win on speed. This guy jumps up and throws some sort of triple kick...to our guy's head (he's like 6'3" tall). Size and weight clearly were not issues for him. He was scary fast and quite agile.
Wish I could say the same for myself
Peace,
Erik
Wish I could say the same for myself
Peace,
Erik
Assumption is the mother of all screw ups, eh?
yep, you just can't tell by looking at a person what he/she is capable of: The proof of the pudding is in the eating...
Weight is an issue when it either interferes with your ability to accomplish what you want to do, or when it adversely affects your health and stamina.
Being big in itself is not an issue. It's when the effects of being big carry over to performance.
Part of it is feasibility. If you're 200+ lbs. and big boned, chances are you are not going to being fighting as a lightweight. If you're 200+ lbs. because you don't take care of yourself, and you actually shold be 150 lbs., you might want to consider a workout program.
Being big in itself is not an issue. It's when the effects of being big carry over to performance.
Part of it is feasibility. If you're 200+ lbs. and big boned, chances are you are not going to being fighting as a lightweight. If you're 200+ lbs. because you don't take care of yourself, and you actually shold be 150 lbs., you might want to consider a workout program.
blackxpress
Green Belt
I agree that weight is relative, to a point, but one must also consider basic body type. As an example, my brother and me have the same basic build. We're both 6'5" and, by nature, relatively thin. I weigh 200. I could stand to weigh a little more but the most I've ever weighed was 230. Because a lot of that weight was blubber and not muscle it caused me problems. At 200 I'm in the best shape of my life and can perform all my MA techniques with relative ease. My brother has always been a natural athlete. When he was younger, he played basketball, was a body builder and a very accomplished water skier. His ideal weight was around 210 and it was all muscle. His strength, agility and endurance were awesome. Then, several years ago, he decided to take up power lifting. He deliberately gained a whole lot of weight. Now he weighs 300 pounds. He can lift an incredible amount of weight but other than that I think he's in terrible shape. He can't run, play ball or water ski because he gets out of breath too easy. No way could he do martial arts (well, maybe wrestling). He has no agility and, again, no endurance. He has a lot of trouble with his knees and ankles. His feet hurt if he stands on them very long. Just to look at him you'd think he's an awesome physical specimen. Just about all of his 300 lbs. is solid muscle. The problem is, his body was not designed to carry that much weight. He's not big boned. Bottom line: he outweighs me 100 lbs. but if he ever had to fight me, he'd lose!
Kwan Jang
Purple Belt
As far as powerlifters are concerned, it's far less of a factor of how much muscle their bodies carry. but how balanced their training is. The goal in powerlifting is to get the highest total on the three competitive lifts: squat, deadlift, and bench press. A more intellegent approach is to achieve this goal is to become as strong as possible overall and near competition time, do some specialty work so that you peak for these particular lifts. This requires keeping balanced work along the natural strength curves of the body, keeping in mind not only the agonist/ antagonist muscles, but also the general proportions of the body as well.
Unfortunately, far too many powerlifters will not take this balanced approach and will only train for the three lifts and do these and certain support movements. They will rarely, if ever, put in any real work on any muscle groups that they don't feel are key to their lifts. Nor do some of these guys ever do heavy high rep work. Doing high rep (20 reps +) work to failure with relatively heavy weight develops both cardiovascular density and support within the muscle and far greater muscular endurance (this is why, while I can max out on the squat at over 800 lbs, will far more often rep out at 500 for 20). This not only helps add by giving support to their single rep max, but also greatly enhances their athletic ability.
Worst yet, many guys who call themselves powerlifters will often specialize in one lift and do not keep a balance between the three lifts. This most often happens with the bench press, but can occur with any of the lifts. There are many guys out there who can actually bench more than they can deadlift of even squat. This is way off the natural strength curve for the muscles. IMO, if you are someone who just enters bench pressing contests, you may be a strength athlete, but in reality you are not really a powerlifter.
For the reasons listed above, I actually consider "old school"-style, hardcore bodybuilding superior to powerlifting as a training method. In this more basic version of bodybuilding, the goal is to fully develop every major muscle group along the natural strength curves in proper proportion. Also, you develop every aspect of muscle (strength and endurance) to it's highest potential. This type of BB training also requires a significant amount of work on cardio and flexibility as part of the training. Like the powerlifters, too many bodybuilders overly specialize and become "pumpers" who work too much on isolation exercises with too much emphasis on lighter weights and high reps, though.
Before the drug explosion of the early '90's (prior to this, there was a drug problem in powerlifting and BB, but it was comparable to that in many other sports. It was just more obvious than football or baseball, because these guys looked like they "had to be on something". After the early '90's, the drug use became insane among many of the top competitiors and the wannabes), it was very common for bodybuilders and powerlifters to cross compete in each sport and it was the norm for almost everybody to at least cross train. Some guys' genetics would be too far from what is neccesary for success in the other sport, so they might not bother getting into competition (too small of a hip structure and waist hurts you in the squat,but too wide hurts your taper in BB), but almost all the high level guys cross trained in the other sport in the off season.
As far as your brother is concerned, it's probably far less his actual weight than it is his training methods. Unless he is doing an extremely high level of drugs (steroids, growth hormone, ect.), his body should not create more muscle than his frame can handle. (If he is doing that, obviously these are the least of his problems.) The wear and tear on the body from improper training methods and overtraining certain muscles and leaving others undertrained will definitely take it's toll. Powerlifting in general will give your body a real pounding over the years far more than "just carrying all that weight". Especially if that weight is lean muscle and not fat, it will carry itself.
Unfortunately, far too many powerlifters will not take this balanced approach and will only train for the three lifts and do these and certain support movements. They will rarely, if ever, put in any real work on any muscle groups that they don't feel are key to their lifts. Nor do some of these guys ever do heavy high rep work. Doing high rep (20 reps +) work to failure with relatively heavy weight develops both cardiovascular density and support within the muscle and far greater muscular endurance (this is why, while I can max out on the squat at over 800 lbs, will far more often rep out at 500 for 20). This not only helps add by giving support to their single rep max, but also greatly enhances their athletic ability.
Worst yet, many guys who call themselves powerlifters will often specialize in one lift and do not keep a balance between the three lifts. This most often happens with the bench press, but can occur with any of the lifts. There are many guys out there who can actually bench more than they can deadlift of even squat. This is way off the natural strength curve for the muscles. IMO, if you are someone who just enters bench pressing contests, you may be a strength athlete, but in reality you are not really a powerlifter.
For the reasons listed above, I actually consider "old school"-style, hardcore bodybuilding superior to powerlifting as a training method. In this more basic version of bodybuilding, the goal is to fully develop every major muscle group along the natural strength curves in proper proportion. Also, you develop every aspect of muscle (strength and endurance) to it's highest potential. This type of BB training also requires a significant amount of work on cardio and flexibility as part of the training. Like the powerlifters, too many bodybuilders overly specialize and become "pumpers" who work too much on isolation exercises with too much emphasis on lighter weights and high reps, though.
Before the drug explosion of the early '90's (prior to this, there was a drug problem in powerlifting and BB, but it was comparable to that in many other sports. It was just more obvious than football or baseball, because these guys looked like they "had to be on something". After the early '90's, the drug use became insane among many of the top competitiors and the wannabes), it was very common for bodybuilders and powerlifters to cross compete in each sport and it was the norm for almost everybody to at least cross train. Some guys' genetics would be too far from what is neccesary for success in the other sport, so they might not bother getting into competition (too small of a hip structure and waist hurts you in the squat,but too wide hurts your taper in BB), but almost all the high level guys cross trained in the other sport in the off season.
As far as your brother is concerned, it's probably far less his actual weight than it is his training methods. Unless he is doing an extremely high level of drugs (steroids, growth hormone, ect.), his body should not create more muscle than his frame can handle. (If he is doing that, obviously these are the least of his problems.) The wear and tear on the body from improper training methods and overtraining certain muscles and leaving others undertrained will definitely take it's toll. Powerlifting in general will give your body a real pounding over the years far more than "just carrying all that weight". Especially if that weight is lean muscle and not fat, it will carry itself.
fireman00
Brown Belt
height and weight can combine to do you in... I'm 5'10" and weighed 217 which put me in the AAU heavyweight division - fighting guys that were 6 foot and taller - a decided disadvantage for me. I've dropped 30 lbs with 12 more to go.... I'll be fighting folks more my height / reach and I feel a LOT better.
extra weight will cause problems with your knees, back, hips, heart and overall health... I'd be more concerned about BMI then size.
extra weight will cause problems with your knees, back, hips, heart and overall health... I'd be more concerned about BMI then size.
jim777
Master Black Belt
Completely agree. You have to have the strength to both execute and control your techniques. It certainly takes more strength to control more weight. If you can throw out that roundhouse but not control it to the point where you can whip it right back, weight might be an issue for you. I've lost abouty 15 pounds since Thanksgiving or so, and it is efinitely helping me with fine control of a lot of techniques. I'm looking forward to dropping another 10 actually, primarily to help my control.
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