Weapon/Tool Development/Anthropology... Formerly Blocking useless?

[JowGaWolf]

well it depends , pagan in its original sence is any religion not based on Abraham, particulary those with multiple gods. So in that sense witch craft is most definetly pagan

I understand that. Just saying what they told me and how they referred to themselves.. I don't practice it so , the people who do can call themselves whatever they want.

 

[jobo]

I understand that. Just saying what they told me and how they referred to themselves.. I don't practice it so , the people who do can call themselves whatever they want.

i think pagan was an insulting term you called others, not what you call yourself,

 

[JowGaWolf]

well you have clearly not watched the omen or any hammer horrors

I thought the omen (original one) used daggers? Now I have to look it up. Yep. They were daggers. I didn't see the newer Omen..

 

[JowGaWolf]

i think pagan was an insulting term you called others, not what you call yourself,

oh. I know that a lot of them have new age shops or groups. They have grown quite a bit since the availability of the Internet.

 

[Martial D]

Well, since you like Wikipedia so much...
"Wicca (English: /ˈwɪkə/), also termed Pagan Witchcraft, is a contemporary Pagan new religious movement. "

Wicca - Wikipedia

With all due respect, you don't seem to know this subject matter very well. Me, I've been a student of all things occult and religious for several decades.

Firstly ''pagan" is a first century term to describe all non Christian religions. This was an accusatory/pejorative word. That term was very recently rebooted as an umbrella self designated term for a wide variety of beliefs, from Egyptian Ra worship to Norse assatru to indiginous native beliefs. There is no one ''pagan" religion.

Some of these religions contain "magical" rites, some do not. Likewise not all that do "magic" or ritual would describe themselves as "pagan"

As for Wicca, it's a fringe religion started in the 1950s, that invokes both Christian and non Christian elements. Not many wiccans would describe themselves as pagans, although some would.

Or tl;dr

Some "pagans" do "witchcraft" and some don't.

Some people that do "witchcraft" are "pagan", and some are not.

Much like how many mma guys do both BJJ and MT, but that doesn't make MT and BJJ the same thing.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Firstly ''pagan" is a first century term to describe all non Christian religions. That term was later rebooted to as an umbrella term for a wide variety of beliefs, from Egyptian Ra worship to Norse assatru to indiginous native beliefs. There is no one ''pagan" religion.

I didn't say there was. All thumbs are fingers, but not all fingers are thumbs.
Pagan, as an umbrella term, includes witchcraft.
Just as the word 'cult', as an even bigger umbrella term, includes all religions.

Some of these religions contain "magical" rites, some do not. Likewise not all that do "magic" or ritual would describe themselves as "pagan"

All religions contain magical rites, whether they acknowledge that or not.

 

[Martial D]

I didn't say there was. All thumbs are fingers, but not all fingers are thumbs.
Pagan, as an umbrella term, includes witchcraft.
Just as the word 'cult', as an even bigger umbrella term, includes all religions.



All religions contain magical rites, whether they acknowledge that or not.

I said they were different things, which lead you to argue they were not. Now you seem to agree they mean different things.

So you are arguing what exactly?

With that said, no, not all witchcraft falls under the header of Paganism, as you seem to admit when you say all religions contain magical rites.

Unless you are claiming all religions are pagan?

 

[Martial D]

.according to the,church of England being a Christian requires 4 attendances' at church in a year, no requirement to know the first thing about the bible

Of course not, gotta keep the tithes rolling in.

Nobody said anything about any requirements, just that saying you are something doesn't make you an expert on that thing.

 

[_Simon_]

Wow... this has got to be the fastest growing thread... 300+ in a few days?? Golly gosh! Haven't read a word of it, just thought I'd mention that XD

 

[jobo]

going back a few pages, here is a documentary on who discovered American.

for those who don't have an hour and a half spare, the conclusions are

that anyone could have made it, right back to the ancient Egyptians, in that they had the boats and navigation skills to do it, using currents and trade winds. Hard evidence of who did is harder to come by. But there are credible claims for the Chinese, the Japanese , and multiple European and med cultures, but actual evidence they made it, for just the polynesians and the Vikings. And the Vikings did it in what are more or less rowing boats,

though there are things like maps showing America and cocaine in Egyptian tombs etc that certainly suggest there was some contact.

and someone, quite probably European, was killing mamoths 20,000 years ago,a good 7 thousand years before the clovis people turned up

 

[Gerry Seymour]

destroying historical statues all over the south

That's an entirely different (and political) issue. That's not at all about destroying history, but about who should be glorified in history.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Apparently.

Calling yourself a thing does not magically impart knowledge of that thing. I've met many a Christian that doesn't know a thing about the Bible, and the 'pagan' community have more than their share of such people.

All that aside, these words have wildly different definitions.
Paganism - Wikipedia

Witchcraft - Wikipedia

If you look halfway down that at the "Modern Paganism" section, that's where Wicca fits in. Wiccans commonly refer to themselves as witches.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

what about being stabbed with a crucifix

Or using it against vampires.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

That's me out then...

Heck, I think that lets out most of the Christians I know.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

well it depends , pagan in its original sence is any religion not based on Abraham, particulary those with multiple gods. So in that sense witch craft is most definetly pagan

Add to that the common current usages: polytheism (based on the original Christian usage), and nature-oriented religions. Both of those would also include Wicca.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

i think pagan was an insulting term you called others, not what you call yourself,

It used to be. It has been co-opted by many non-Christians now.

 

[jobo]

That's an entirely different (and political) issue. That's not at all about destroying history, but about who should be glorified in history.

its clearly the same issue of destroying icons that represent things you disaprove of.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

its clearly the same issue of destroying icons that represent things you disaprove of.

Similar motivation, different issue. And, quite a different reason, actually. Depends how you look at it.

 

[Martial D]

If you look halfway down that at the "Modern Paganism" section, that's where Wicca fits in. Wiccans commonly refer to themselves as witches.

Yes, I realize some people classify Wicca as 'modern paganism', and that wiccans sometimes call themselves witches. There are quite a few different subsects of Wicca, as it is with many religions/cults. Gardnerian/non gardnerian, Rede/non Rede. Some accept a horned god, others do not, some like to be called witches, others are straight up offended by that.

You aren't going to find hard uniform definitions of much from the crystal and dreamcatchers set, just like you won't from most religious sects.

Did you know there are over 30,000 flavours of Christianity alone?

 

[jobo]

Similar motivation, different issue. And, quite a different reason, actually. Depends how you look at it.

its the same, reason,