Wealth Inequality In America...and its perception?

[granfire]

I could be wrong in sensing there is much more written between the lines here, so I'll just ask a question. What rules are you referring to?

the rules of making/keeping money

 

[ballen0351]

A bit off topic, but what's your opinion on tithing?

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Its not done at gun point. If you don't give all 10% nobody's going to throw you in jail. You have free will to give or not to give

 

[granfire]

Its not done at gun point. If you don't give all 10% nobody's going to throw you in jail. You have free will to give or not to give

They just threaten you with eternal damnation (and possible exposing your deepest secrets)

 

[elder999]

I could be wrong in sensing there is much more written between the lines here, so I'll just ask a question. What rules are you referring to?

Of course there's much more. It's as Granfire said: rules around making and keeping money. Rules that permit the conceit that is corporate personhood. Our tax structure. The false distinction that allows income from investments to be taxed at a lower rate than income from salary.....really? I deserve to keep more money from my property than you do from your sweat?

But the unwritten rules that allow most Americans to skew the picture of wealth distribution in the U.S., or the ones that let people think they could be the next Richard Branson (a good story, his!)-that if they just work hard they can get "ahead."

Or that there's really anything to get ahead of in the first place-that you need to be rich (though maybe, by now, you do) or that if you have a lot of money, it will solve your problems. "Richest" person I've ever known lived in hogan without running water or electricity, herding sheep. My friend's grandmother was 86 years old, and the way she saw it, she had everything she needed, and always had.

 

[ballen0351]

Yeah, the 'eat up, there are children starving in India' bit.
Our poor is different than in other places of the world: we can't barter for life's necessities or bring a chicken to pay the doctor.

Really so which poor person in the US can't walk into a hospital and not get treated? They don't even need a chicken. And you can still barter nothing stops you. I know guys that barter services for defense lawyers all the time.

But you keep missing the point:
We are all just one major catastrophy away from becoming this poor!

Not if you plan right prepare and have a strong family support system.

 

[Steve]

Really so which poor person in the US can't walk into a hospital and not get treated? They don't even need a chicken. And you can still barter nothing stops you. I know guys that barter services for defense lawyers all the time.

Treated for what? If you are a poor person with a cut, bruise, active labor, or some acute or life threatening illness or injury, you will get treated in an ER.

We have some people who work in ERs on the board, and I'd love to hear from their practical experience. My understanding is that a poor person with high cholesterol who needs a lipid screening would not be treated. A poor person with cancer will not be treated unless the cancer has progressed to the point that the tumor is blocking something and creating a situation where the person's life is in immediate danger. Any preventative care will not be provided, even in a situation where the person's family has a history of heart disease or cancer. Routine mammograms, lipid screenings, or any kind of preventative diagnosis.

And that's just for physical maladies. Mental health treatment in an ER is, if I understand correctly, pretty much limited to severe psychotic breaks. If you suffer from chronic depression, bi-polar disorder, or if your child has autism, you can't just get treatment or medical help in the ER. You can't go to the ER and ask for medical advice on an issue that is not an emergency.

In other threads, I've said that we have TERRIFIC emergency care in our country. If I am in an automobile accident, I am confident I will receive terrific care. But we have pretty bad health care, and statistics bear this out.

And while you can't wring blood from a turnip, for people who are "working poor," the trips to the ER are not simply written off and the hospitals employ very aggressive collections strategies that can typically only be stopped with a bankruptcy proceeding.

 

[ballen0351]

Treated for what? If you are a poor person with a cut, bruise, active labor, or some acute or life threatening illness or injury, you will get treated in an ER.

We have some people who work in ERs on the board, and I'd love to hear from their practical experience. My understanding is that a poor person with high cholesterol who needs a lipid screening would not be treated. A poor person with cancer will not be treated unless the cancer has progressed to the point that the tumor is blocking something and creating a situation where the person's life is in immediate danger. Any preventative care will not be provided, even in a situation where the person's family has a history of heart disease or cancer. Routine mammograms, lipid screenings, or any kind of preventative diagnosis.

And that's just for physical maladies. Mental health treatment in an ER is, if I understand correctly, pretty much limited to severe psychotic breaks. If you suffer from chronic depression, bi-polar disorder, or if your child has autism, you can't just get treatment or medical help in the ER. You can't go to the ER and ask for medical advice on an issue that is not an emergency.

In other threads, I've said that we have TERRIFIC emergency care in our country. If I am in an automobile accident, I am confident I will receive terrific care. But we have pretty bad health care, and statistics bear this out.

And while you can't wring blood from a turnip, for people who are "working poor," the trips to the ER are not simply written off and the hospitals employ very aggressive collections strategies that can typically only be stopped with a bankruptcy proceeding.

Your argument is no longer valid remember we have obamacare to save us. We all must go buy insurance even if you can't afford it

 

[ballen0351]

Of course there's much more. It's as Granfire said: rules around making and keeping money. Rules that permit the conceit that is corporate personhood. Our tax structure. The false distinction that allows income from investments to be taxed at a lower rate than income from salary.....really? I deserve to keep more money from my property than you do from your sweat?

But the unwritten rules that allow most Americans to skew the picture of wealth distribution in the U.S., or the ones that let people think they could be the next Richard Branson (a good story, his!)-that if they just work hard they can get "ahead."

Or that there's really anything to get ahead of in the first place-that you need to be rich (though maybe, by now, you do) or that if you have a lot of money, it will solve your problems. "Richest" person I've ever known lived in hogan without running water or electricity, herding sheep. My friend's grandmother was 86 years old, and the way she saw it, she had everything she needed, and always had.

Yes nobody every gets ahead with hard work. You may never be the next Richard Brandon but with hard work you can be comfortable in life. Not everyone will or can be rich and we will always have poor and dort poor but you can ALWAYS improve upon your situation

 

[Steve]

Your argument is no longer valid remember we have obamacare to save us. We all must go buy insurance even if you can't afford it

You asked a question. I answered it. You didn't like my answer and replied with sarcasm and snarkiness.

 

[ballen0351]

They just threaten you with eternal damnation (and possible exposing your deepest secrets)

But if you don't believe it doesn't effect you. Unlike taxes you have no choice

 

[ballen0351]

You asked a question. I answered it. You didn't like my answer and replied with sarcasm and snarkiness.

No I didn't my reply was true is it not?

 

[Steve]

No I didn't my reply was true is it not?

<sigh> I made no argument, ballen. I answered a question. So, no. Your reply wasn't true. It was sarcastic and snarky. You asked a question, "so which poor person in the US can't walk into a hospital and not get treated?"

I provided several examples of people who would not receive treatment. If you were to walk into an ER with no means to pay, you would not receive treatment for chronic illnesses, such as cancer. Try getting chemo or radiation therapy in an ER without insurance. Try getting treatment for mental illness short of a violent, dangerous psychotic episode without insurance.

The above are factual. You cannot get chemo at the ER. This is a fact. It is not an argument, nor is it an opinion. It is a factual answer to a question you asked, and your response was the typical, sarcastic jab that you resort to when your rhetoric fails.

 

[ballen0351]

<sigh> I made no argument, ballen. I answered a question. So, no. Your reply wasn't true. It was sarcastic and snarky. You asked a question, "so which poor person in the US can't walk into a hospital and not get treated?"

I provided several examples of people who would not receive treatment. If you were to walk into an ER with no means to pay, you would not receive treatment for chronic illnesses, such as cancer. Try getting chemo or radiation therapy in an ER without insurance. Try getting treatment for mental illness short of a violent, dangerous psychotic episode without insurance.

The above are factual. You cannot get chemo at the ER. This is a fact. It is not an argument, nor is it an opinion. It is a factual answer to a question you asked, and your response was the typical, sarcastic jab that you resort to when your rhetoric fails.

Sigh.......still does not apply anymore when everyone is required by law to buy health insurance even the poor who by the way most already had insurance through the state


By the way you may not get chemo in the ER but thy can certainly move you to a bed in oncology and get it once they figure out what you need.


Oh and I take people for psyc. Treatment damn near everyday that have nothing. They are treated so you wrong again

 

[Steve]

Sigh.......still does not apply anymore when everyone is required by law to buy health insurance even the poor who by the way most already had insurance through the state


By the way you may not get chemo in the ER but thy can certainly move you to a bed in oncology and get it once they figure out what you need.

I believe you are mistaken. Is there anyone here who works in an ER who can shed some light on this? I'm reasonable sure that you will not be admitted to the hospital in this case.

Oh and I take people for psyc. Treatment damn near everyday that have nothing. They are treated so you wrong again

You take them in for treatment or for an evaluation?

 

[ballen0351]

I believe you are mistaken. Is there anyone here who works in an ER who can shed some light on this? I'm reasonable sure that you will not be admitted to the hospital in this case.

What are you talking about? Nobody really admitted for routine cancer treatments. Everyone has health insurance now or they will once these web sites get fixed so everyone can get the proper treatment. Remember Obamacare requires us ALL to have insurance well unless you donate enough to dem campaigns then you get an exemption.

You take them in for treatment or for an evaluation?

same difference they are given a treatnent progam to follow upon release.

 

[elder999]

Yes nobody every gets ahead with hard work.

Some people do-Richard Branson pretty much did.

Not everyone can or will, or else they would, pretty much, ya know?

 

[ballen0351]

Some people do-Richard Branson pretty much did.

Not everyone can or will, or else they would, pretty much, ya know?

Everyone doesn't need to be rich. What's wrong with just being normal? Everyone can become semis comfortable you just need to try. We don't need nor could we ever have 300 million rich people here

Everyone CAN get comfortable but not everyone WILL

 

[Steve]

What are you talking about? Nobody really admitted for routine cancer treatments.

Right. And they won't administer any cancer treatment in the ER, and they won't do it in oncology unless you have a means of payment.

Everyone has health insurance now or they will once these web sites get fixed so everyone can get the proper treatment. Remember Obamacare requires us ALL to have insurance well unless you donate enough to dem campaigns then you get an exemption.

This is a red herring. It's not relevant to the question you asked and I answered.

same difference they are given a treatnent progam to follow upon release.

They aren't the same. Evaluation is not treatment, and treatment is not available in the ER. They will detain someone for up to 72 hours, but typically, in the ER, they will release the person if the imminent danger is past.

The specific laws are different in each State, but it's typically pretty similar. Here's a summary of what happens in Colorado: http://www.nami.org/MSTemplate.cfm?...Management/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=90487

As I said above, I'd welcome someone who works in an ER to correct me if I'm wrong. Absent that, you asked a question and I provided what I believe to be a simple, factual answer and several concrete examples to support that answer.

 

[ballen0351]

Right. And they won't administer any cancer treatment in the ER, and they won't do it in oncology unless you have a means of payment.

Wrong again there is treatment for people that can't pay. I donate money every year to St Jude's Hospital who provide cancer treatment for free. 2ndly the really poor already have state run health insurance. Here its called priority partners. So again the poor are not turned away without treatment.

This is a red herring. It's not relevant to the question you asked and I answered.

Not a red herring its a cold hard fact and your answer was wrong

They aren't the same. Evaluation is not treatment, and treatment is not available in the ER. They will detain someone for up to 72 hours, but typically, in the ER, they will release the person if the imminent danger is past.

The specific laws are different in each State, but it's typically pretty similar. Here's a summary of what happens in Colorado: http://www.nami.org/MSTemplate.cfm?...Management/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=90487

As I said above, I'd welcome someone who works in an ER to correct me if I'm wrong. Absent that, you asked a question and I provided what I believe to be a simple, factual answer and several concrete examples to support that answer.

Actually when I take you to the ER for psyc eval you don't stay in the ER. I drop you off and you are then moved to the psyc ward for evaluation and treatment. They also schedule several follow up meetings for more treatment

 

[Steve]

Regarding the psych eval, I'm pretty sure it depends upon the State you're in. But in most, based upon what I've read, they will evaluate you and then likely release you without treatment if you are not posing an immediate threat to yourself or others. In some States, this will be in the ER. In some States, it's in a psych ward.

You speak about these things in absolutes, like you're an expert, as though because you drop them off you know the entire process for your State and every other. I'd love to hear from an actual expert on the subject. As I said before, I am almost sure that there were some ER nurses posting to the boards here.