We must protect ourselves from the voter fraud problem we do not have!

[Makalakumu]

First you would have to address how we identify sociopaths.

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They'll take a test, and soon, no one will be able to pass the test.

 

[Makalakumu]

Makalakumu, if you find Republican election fraud post it. It supports the need for voter i.d.s

Google "Republican Voter Fraud" and you'll get plenty of examples if you want to see them. Some of the examples may or may not be true, but the thing that I would like you to understand is that they do happen and, this is a serious problem if we claim that we value democracy. Like I said before, in close elections, the outcome is dependent on who can cheat the most and not get caught. It's always been that way, so any pretense of one party being "clean" is absolutely preposterous.

I did find this article, which was interesting...

http://www.salon.com/2012/07/27/fla_republican_we_suppressed_black_votes/

In the debate over new laws meant to curb voter fraud in places like Florida, Democrats always charge that Republicans are trying to suppress the vote of liberal voting blocs like blacks and young people, while Republicans just laugh at such ludicrous and offensive accusations. That is, every Republican except for Florida’s former Republican Party chairman Jim Greer, who, scorned by his party and in deep legal trouble, blew the lid off what he claims was a systemic effort to suppress the black vote. In a 630-page deposition recorded over two days in late May, Greer, who is on trial for corruption charges, unloaded a litany of charges against the “whack-a-do, right-wing crazies” in his party, including the effort to suppress the black vote.


In the deposition, released to the press yesterday, Greer mentioned a December 2009 meeting with party officials. “I was upset because the political consultants and staff were talking about voter suppression and keeping blacks from voting,” he said, according to the Tampa Bay Times. He also said party officials discussed how “minority outreach programs were not fit for the Republican Party,” according to the AP.


The comments, if true (he is facing felony corruption charges and has an interest in scorning his party), would confirm what critics have long suspected. Florida Gov. Rick Scott is currently facing inquiries from the Justice Department and pressure from civil rights groups over his purging of voter rolls in the state, an effort that critics say has disproportionately targeted minorities and other Democratic voters. One group suing the state claims up to 87 percent of the voters purged from the rolls so far have been people of color, though other estimates place that number far lower. Scott has defended the purge, even though he was erroneously listed as dead himself on the rolls in 2006.

If anything can be drawn from these words, I think the fact that we have some serious problems with our democracy, and our government, is pretty well established.

 

[WC_lun]

New news on this front. Jim Reed, the former GOP head in Florida gave a legal diposition saying that Florida GOP officials were looking for ways to supress the African American turnout and the voter laws are part of that effort. For fairness sake, I should also include that Mr Reed was ousted as the head of the Florida GOP and is facing corruption charges. However, if his 630 page diposition has any meat to it, that will be two states in which these laws are for voter suppression instead of safeguarding the process.

 

[Cryozombie]

Look, as far as I am concerned, and I get Bill's point that we Don't need the ID because there is no widespread problem... but as far as I am concerned, as long as it is OK to subject any one right to that requriement, then there should be no argument that it shouldn't be ok to subject ANY of them to it. You cannot argue that "It will prevent people from being able to Excercise that right" while excusing it as neccessary for another right, because you disagree with that particular right or think that you can justify the need to do it in the interest of the public good. Anyone can disagree with a right, or find a reason it doesn't act in the interest of the public good. That doesn't make it right.

 

[billc]

On the continuing debate on voter I.D...

http://dailycaller.com/2012/08/02/v...rs-minorities-from-fraudsters-says-new-study/

Criminal justice data shows that blacks and poor people are the most common victims of voter fraud and are the greatest beneficiaries of voter identification rules, according to a new study.
The courtroom evidence “completely contradicts the [progressive claim] that blacks, seniors, college students and other disadvantages groups are being victimized,” said Horace Cooper, an adjunct fellow at the National Center for Public Policy Research.
“The truth is … [that] the criminals — more often than not — are Democrats violating the rights of people who tend to be black or senior,” he told The Daily Caller.
A large investigation in Virginia, for example, showed that 30 percent of fraud allegations were centered in Richmond, which has the highest percentage of African-Americans in the state. In the state a wide investigation of voter fraud produced criminal charges against 38 people.

Good voter identification procedures would reduce that fraudulent voting, and aid minorities most, Cooper said.
The new study damages progressives’ claims that the popular demand for voter identification laws mask a GOP effort to suppress the vote of racial and ethnic minorities who support Democratic candidates.

Cooper’s study highlighted cases where inadequate voter ID rules allowed political operatives to submit fraudulent votes under the names of local minorities.
Three times as many Democrats as Republicans have been charged with voter fraud, he said.
In Troy, New York, four Democratic officials have pled guilty to forging mail-in ballots. The fake ballots were submitted under the names of people who “live in low-income housing [because] there is a sense that they are a lot less likely to ask any questions. … What appears as a huge conspiracy to nonpolitical persons is really a normal political tactic,” Democratic Committeeman Anthony DeFiglio told the police as he plead guilty.
A particular problem is fraudulent voting during low-turnout primary elections, which allows corrupt Democratic party bosses to keep control over elected representatives, former Democratic Rep. Artur Davis told TheDC.
“The people who engage in the in-person fraud, or the theft and interception of ballots, or the people who try to [arrange votes by] illegal felons and aliens … are doing so at the expense of minorities that they fear won’t show up” during the election, Cooper said.

 

[ballen0351]

New news on this front. Jim Reed, the former GOP head in Florida gave a legal diposition saying that Florida GOP officials were looking for ways to supress the African American turnout and the voter laws are part of that effort. For fairness sake, I should also include that Mr Reed was ousted as the head of the Florida GOP and is facing corruption charges. However, if his 630 page diposition has any meat to it, that will be two states in which these laws are for voter suppression instead of safeguarding the process.

So are you saying African Americans cant figure out how to get an ID? I dont get the point if they say you need an ID and anyone can get an ID how do you supress a vote?

 

[billc]

Yeah, a guy kicked out by the party is saying things about the party...yeah, sounds like he is submitting his resume with the democrats...

It is perhaps the soft racism of low expectations of a minority population...they can't get I.D. on their own...they just can't manage it...

 

[billc]

And speaking of disenfranchising voters...here is where the democrats show the love to our soldiers fighting in foreign lands...

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/08/02/obama-campaign-sues-to-restrict-military-voting

On July 17th, the Obama for America Campaign, the Democratic National Committee and the Ohio Democratic Party filed suit in OH to strike down part of that state's law governing voting by members of the military. Their suit said that part of the law is "arbitrary" with "no discernible rational basis."
Currently, Ohio allows the public to vote early in-person up until the Friday before the election. Members of the military three extra days to do so. While the Democrats may see this as "arbitrary" and having "no discernible rational basis", I think it is entirely reasonable given the demands on servicemen and women's time and their obligations to their sworn duty.
The National Defense Committee reports:

[f]or each of the last three years, the Department of Defense’s Federal Voting Assistance Program has reported to the President and the Congress that the number one reason for military voter disenfranchisement is inadequate time to successfully vote.
​

Personally, I think its unconscionable that we as a nation wouldn't make it as easy as possible for members of the military to vote. They arguably have more right to vote than the rest of us, since it is their service and sacrifice that ensures we have the right to vote in the first place.
If anyone proposes legislation to combat voter fraud, Democrats will loudly scream that the proposal could "disenfranchise" some voter, somewhere. We must ensure, they argue, that voting is easy and accessible to every single voter. Every voter, that is, except the men and women of our military.

You see, what this is is the democrats are trying to keep African Americans in the military from voting so it is in essence...wait for it..."racism." That makes as much sense as all the other fake charges of racism that the democrats throw around...

 

[billc]

This is the example republicans want to prevent in the future...

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/08/voting_fraud_sometimes_it_changes_history.html

As Byron York points out in the Examiner, sometimes, the consequences of voter fraud can change history:

On the '08 campaign, Republican Sen. Norm Coleman was running for re-election against Democrat Al Franken. It was impossibly close; on the morning after the election, after 2.9 million people had voted, Coleman led Franken by 725 votes.
Franken and his Democratic allies dispatched an army of lawyers to challenge the results. After the first canvass, Coleman's lead was down to 206 votes. That was followed by months of wrangling and litigation. In the end, Franken was declared the winner by 312 votes. He was sworn into office in July 2009, eight months after the election.
During the controversy a conservative group called Minnesota Majority began to look into claims of voter fraud. Comparing criminal records with voting rolls, the group identified 1,099 felons -- all ineligible to vote -- who had voted in the Franken-Coleman race.
Minnesota Majority took the information to prosecutors across the state, many of whom showed no interest in pursuing it. But Minnesota law requires authorities to investigate such leads. And so far, Fund and von Spakovsky report, 177 people have been convicted -- not just accused, but convicted -- of voting fraudulently in the Senate race. Another 66 are awaiting trial. "The numbers aren't greater," the authors say, "because the standard for convicting someone of voter fraud in Minnesota is that they must have been both ineligible, and 'knowingly' voted unlawfully." The accused can get off by claiming not to have known they did anything wrong.
Still, that's a total of 243 people either convicted of voter fraud or awaiting trial in an election that was decided by 312 votes. With 1,099 examples identified by Minnesota Majority, and with evidence suggesting that felons, when they do vote, strongly favor Democrats, it doesn't require a leap to suggest there might one day be proof that Al Franken was elected on the strength of voter fraud.
And that's just the question of voting by felons. Minnesota Majority also found all sorts of other irregularities that cast further doubt on the Senate results.
The election was particularly important because Franken's victory gave Senate Democrats a 60th vote in favor of President Obama's national health care proposal -- the deciding vote to overcome a Republican filibuster. If Coleman had kept his seat, there would have been no 60th vote, and no Obamacare.
​

The idea that there is no voter fraud in Chicago, Philadelphia, or any other large city run by Democrats is laughable. Republican poll watchers are routinely kicked out of Democratic precincts in Chicago and intimidated. One wonders what goes on in those precincts without a Republican to stop the shenannigans. Or are we to believe they kicked the GOP poll watchers out for some kind of innocent reason? Sorry, it doesn't pass the smell test.
They still buy votes in the hills and hollers of West Virginia and Kentucky. Big city machines still play fast and loose with ballot boxes (See 2004 governor's race in Washington and Seattle area vote fraud). There are still tens of thousands of bogus voter registrations the country. And there is still the motivation for both parties to cheat.
Resistance to Voter ID is for one reason only; if your side is planning to cheat. The Democrats wrap their opposition to ID laws around a sanctimonious charge that it would suppress the votes of minorities and the young. But when the opportunity presents itself for fraud, are we to think that the Democrats are so pure and noble of heart that they wouldn't go for it?

The governor's race in Washington and Seattle linked above...

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Dead-voted-in-governor-s-race-1163612.php

And a history of Democrat cheating in Chicago, it happened long before Kennedy/Nixon...

http://www.ipsn.org/chiviol.html

A Republican businessman named George Armour challenged the votes of some Irishmen who did not reside within ward boundaries. Armour was set upon by a crowd of poll-watching ruffians, kicked, beaten about the head, and dragged through the streets by the hair until his friends came to the rescue. Another Wentworth worker was not nearly so lucky. He was attacked, stabbed, and chased clear down to La Salle Street where he jumped onto a dangerously thin sheet of river ice to escape his pursuers.

The man escaped but not before one of the 7th Ward Irishers crashed through the ice and drowned in the bone-chilling waters of the Chicago River.

"The 7th Ward is bloody ground and a certain class of Irish seize the occasion, not only to exhibit the wildest passions but to endanger it to the shedding of blood and taking of life of honest citizens who are simply exercising their constitutional rights." -- Chicago Tribune, March, 1857.

Of course the opposition press, led by the Chicago Democrat took an entirely different view of the affray by accusing the Republicans of provoking the mass of simple, honest, working men.

Election chicanery and the head-knocking tactics of the "bummers" - men hired to descend on political gatherings of rival candidates for the sole purpose of creating a disruption (often culminating in fist fights, and blood letting), characterized mayoral and aldermanic elections through the 1870s and 1880s.

A few days before he was scheduled to appear before Kefauver's committee, Drury was shotgunned to death while backing his car into his garage in the 1800 block of Addison Street. Bill Drury's killers vanished into the night.

The same night Drury was gunned down, Attorney Marvin Bas, the Republican nominee for Circuit Court Clerk was murdered near his home at Orchard Street and North Avenue. Bas was another in a long line of public figures who was well acquainted with members of the Chicago "Outfit." He too had agreed to exchange information at election time. In this case, Bas intended to embarrass the Democratic candidate for Cook County Sheriff, Daniel "Tubbo" Gilbert, otherwise known as the "World's Richest Cop."

The gangland-style executions of Prignano, Granata, Drury, and Bas were attributed to the "Outfit" - and they were entered into the ledgers of the Chicago Crime Commission as officially unsolved gangland "hits." The number of such murders was fast approaching a thousand when these stories were first reported.

Even with the memories of the political assassinations of the 1960s blazed in our collective conscience, the cold-blooded murders of Chicago politicians and a highly- respected police detective still seems almost unimaginable, looking back on these events more than 40 years later.

The most talked about political murder-mystery of the decade revolved around Clem Graver, a state representative and 21st Ward Republican Committeeman who was dragged from inside his garage on 976 W. 18th Street on June 11, 1953, by three men - while his wife Amelia helplessly watched from inside the house. A black 1950 Ford sedan, stolen from the South Side, sped away with Graver who was forcibly restrained in the back seat.

No ransom demand was ever made. Despite an intensive search of the rail yards, coal piles, and dead-end streets west of Halsted Street, Clem Graver was never seen again.

 

[billc]

Zombie voters in Virginia get the baseball bat to the head treatment...

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/08/10/10000-dead-virginia-voters/

 

[Makalakumu]

You've convinced me to become republican. Wear do I wear my colors?

 

[billc]

Welcome aboard Makalakumu, welcome to the dark side, you'll get your red lightsaber with your information package on how to poison the air and water. The incoming republican mixer with Dick Cheney will be next week, where the usual fun events of stealing candy from babies, and denying medical coverage to poor people for fun and profit and giving tax cuts to the rich will be enjoyed by all. Now that you are one of us, you'll see how the world really works and how as one of the really rich, you will automatically get a gazillion dollars added to your bank account, we can't have you associating with the poor or middle class now can we. The rest of your information packet will instruct you on your duties and obligations and the number of human sacrifices you have to perform every quarter as part of your membership. Again, welcome aboard, you'll like it over here on the dark side after all....there is no going back...

 

[Makalakumu]

Welcome aboard Makalakumu, welcome to the dark side, you'll get your red lightsaber with your information package on how to poison the air and water. The incoming republican mixer with Dick Cheney will be next week, where the usual fun events of stealing candy from babies, and denying medical coverage to poor people for fun and profit and giving tax cuts to the rich will be enjoyed by all. Now that you are one of us, you'll see how the world really works and how as one of the really rich, you will automatically get a gazillion dollars added to your bank account, we can't have you associating with the poor or middle class now can we. The rest of your information packet will instruct you on your duties and obligations and the number of human sacrifices you have to perform every quarter as part of your membership. Again, welcome aboard, you'll like it over here on the dark side after all....there is no going back...

The only problem with republicans is that they are democrats. They all want my money and freedom in some way. The governments gun in the room is up for grabs!

 

[Tgace]

http://m.arktimes.com/arkansas/blog...sas&day=05&id=ArkansasBlog&month=09&year=2012

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[WC_lun]

I think that which states are being targetted and the methods being used for many so called voter fraud actions are very telling. It is also telling that these rules and laws are being inacted before the problem has even been defined. How do you really fix an issue when you do not even know where the problems are, or even if there is a problem? It defies logical thinking to start these rules when you haven't even asked the question, "Where are the problems that we can correct in voter fraud?" or "Is there voter fraud?" It makes it obvious that the problem is not what is being claimed.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

http://m.arktimes.com/arkansas/blog...sas&day=05&id=ArkansasBlog&month=09&year=2012

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Explain how absentee ballot fraud will be fixed by requiring voters who appear in person to present photo ID.

 

[WC_lun]

Explain how absentee ballot fraud will be fixed by requiring voters who appear in person to present photo ID.

Simple answer: it won't.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Simple answer: it won't.

That would be correct. So citing instances of ballot fraud committed by elected officials and involving absentee ballots is a bit of a Red Herring, eh? Once again, no voter fraud, no need for a fix. Anyone who continues to insist that it is needed has a different agenda.

 

[Cryozombie]

Anyone who continues to insist that it is needed has a different agenda.

I do, and I admit it. My agenda is to make everyone jump thru stupid hoops to exercise *their* rights. I'm STILL trying to figure out how to pass a mandatory 48 hour "Cool Down" waiting period before people can speak, just to be sure they wont spout off hate speech or Bullying.

 

[Tgace]

http://www.radioiowa.com/2012/09/20...for-illegally-voting-in-pottawattamie-county/