we are not alone

[Kong Soo Do]

Do you have a reference for that O'Neill statement?

Hi Frank,

Yes sir, there was an article in the Journal of Asian Martial Arts; Dermot M. O’Neill: An Overlooked Combatives Pioneer Author: Steven Brown — Date: Vol. 12 No. 3, 2003

A very good article and in line with what I've read from people like Carl Cestari, Damian Ross and others on some H2H, SD and combative boards.

 

[frank raud]

Hi Frank,

Yes sir, there was an article in the Journal of Asian Martial Arts; Dermot M. O’Neill: An Overlooked Combatives Pioneer Author: Steven Brown — Date: Vol. 12 No. 3, 2003

A very good article and in line with what I've read from people like Carl Cestari, Damian Ross and others on some H2H, SD and combative boards.

Haa! I was just speaking with Steve! I think that statement needs to be taken in proper context, but this is not the thread for that.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Haa! I was just speaking with Steve! I think that statement needs to be taken in proper context, but this is not the thread for that.

Hi Frank,

The proper context is fairly easy to understand from a combatives perspective. It isn't that Judo is useless in H2H combat, indeed many elements can be quite effective in a proper setting. Rather we have to understand the era and the needs of the mission of WWII combatives. The goal was to be easily trained in a short amount of time, using gross motor skills which are retained in long term membory while being effective and brutal (and even lethal) in the quickest time possible under adverse conditions. Judo doesn't qualify under these conditions. Judo is about leverage, gaining control/balance over your an opponent under more ideal conditions. WWII combatives on the other hand weren't concerned with control or looking for a balance opening, rather it was a quick and brutal onslaught to disable, disarm or kill.

Again, Judo isn't on the useless list. But it doesn't make the H2H combatives list either for the conditions they were looking to meet. They did a very effective job with what they had to work with and the mission they were looking to succeed in.

 

[Cyriacus]

Hi Frank, The proper context is fairly easy to understand from a combatives perspective. It isn't that Judo is useless in H2H combat, indeed many elements can be quite effective in a proper setting. Rather we have to understand the era and the needs of the mission of WWII combatives. The goal was to be easily trained in a short amount of time, using gross motor skills which are retained in long term membory while being effective and brutal (and even lethal) in the quickest time possible under adverse conditions. Judo doesn't qualify under these conditions. Judo is about leverage, gaining control/balance over your an opponent under more ideal conditions. WWII combatives on the other hand weren't concerned with control or looking for a balance opening, rather it was a quick and brutal onslaught to disable, disarm or kill. Again, Judo isn't on the useless list. But it doesn't make the H2H combatives list either for the conditions they were looking to meet. They did a very effective job with what they had to work with and the mission they were looking to succeed in.

Well Spoken - People can readily forget how things were designed to function, compared with how they do/did.