all ma are sport

[ATC]

I get what you're saying, and I think we're pretty much on the same page.

First, every person who steps into a UFC Octagon is skilled, even on the undercard. Which dovetails nicely into what I was trying to say. Now, to be clear, I can only really speak to grappling, as that's what I know.

Skill beats size, strength or raw athleticism in almost every single case. I've seen this proven over and over and over again.

Physical gifts plus some skill, however, can overtake skill by itself very quickly. So, a moderately skilled guy who is bigger, stronger, more aggressive or whatever can overwhelm a highly skilled guy who is smaller, weaker or whatever. But where it's strictly skilled vs unskilled, skilled wins almost every time.

Yes I think we are on the same page.

 

[Twin Fist]

It is very hard to overcome big, strong and athletic unless you are at least moderately skilled.

it doesnt take all that much

 

[JWLuiza]

So, would you put yourself up against.... any of the UFC fighters and say you'd come out on top?

 

[granfire]

Gran? you started it so dont cry when ya get it.

Started what, Sunshine?

 

[terryl965]

TF all I am trying to say here is better safe than sorry, in a life or death stituation anything and everything gies but how many people are truely ever gpoing to be in that type of scenio? Not many and knowing your surrounding is more important that anything else. I will always love you and I never ever give up on Traditional TKD as a weapon of choice.

 

[Twin Fist]

thats an silly question, they have athleticism AND skills, thats not what we are talking about. But even then they are not trained for SELF DEFENSE< they are trained for SPORT

it IS different

So, would you put yourself up against.... any of the UFC fighters and say you'd come out on top?

 

[JWLuiza]

thats an silly question, they have athleticism AND skills, thats not what we are talking about. But even then they are not trained for SELF DEFENSE< they are trained for SPORT

it IS different

Fair point.

Let's just go with their level of conditioning and strength, but no fight training.

 

[CDKJudoka]

Dark, TKD IS deadly and CAN be used on the streets, Korean Kickboxing on the other hand is a worthless waste of time, self defense wise.

I know it can be used on the streets, as it can be used in sport. I train in TKD for BOTH reasons and have been doing so for over 20 years. You are just sounding like these crazy instructors who refuse to spar in their style because it is "t3h d3@dly". If you can't pressure test it, how do you know it will work?

Korean Kickboxing has a form of pressure testing it, in my opinion, making it a great way to practise SD. As a traditional TKDer, I train my SD in attacking targets that are illegal in sport, but I don't forget them when I am training for sport.

 

[Twin Fist]

i spar almost every class.

 

[Twin Fist]

Fair point.

Let's just go with their level of conditioning and strength, but no fight training.

depends, no skills just a very high level of conditioning? i wouldnt be afraid of them


know who I am afraid of?

old fat guys that have been training for 40 years, they scare the hell out of me

 

[Chris Parker]

You know what, I'm going to throw another concept at this...

Most here are discussing "sport/competitive" systems and "street effective" systems, but that is not all there is. Taking the initial title of this thread as it stands (that ALL martial arts are sports), I would like to point out that sport and self defence are not the only martial art ideas around.

There are a number of martial arts that have no sporting aspect whatsoever, yet you would be hard pressed to classify them as self defence, at least in a modern setting. Obvious examples are Kenjutsu, Iaido, Kyudo, Taiji (and I'm talking about the most commonly way it is trained here, okay? It's a generalisation, freely admitted...), most Koryu systems in fact. Toda-ha Buko Ryu Naginatajutsu and Owari Kan Ryu Sojutsu are really not suited to street self defence, unless you happen to be carrying 9 foot long polearms... but they are not sport systems either.

Just a thought.

 

[Twin Fist]

a fair point

 

[Cirdan]

Why are all MAs sport? I can make a statement like "all guns are for hunting" but it is obviously not true.

As for what the general public thinks, who cares? They know nothing.

 

[Joab]

Not all MA's are a sport. When I called the founder of a combatives system, the first thing he asked was, "Are you interested in sport martial arts or self defense?" I told him "self defense" and he responded "There is no sports application to his system whatsoever". Some systems can't even be done full contact at all (Like the one I was referring to, I won't give the name because the founder doesn't like it to be in forums like this, he considers this "gossip") as that would result in or maiming or death.

 

[dianhsuhe]

Not all MA's are a sport. When I called the founder of a combatives system, the first thing he asked was, "Are you interested in sport martial arts or self defense?" I told him "self defense" and he responded "There is no sports application to his system whatsoever". Some systems can't even be done full contact at all (Like the one I was referring to, I won't give the name because the founder doesn't like it to be in forums like this, he considers this "gossip") as that would result in or maiming or death.

Save for the "maming or death" I really like what I am reading here.

Pure self-defense and sport are mutually exclusive of one another. I guess except for the athletic conditioning and winning attitude.

 

[ATC]

OK OK....Manny should have said many MA's are sport.

 

[dianhsuhe]

There are a number of martial arts that have no sporting aspect whatsoever, yet you would be hard pressed to classify them as self defence, at least in a modern setting. Obvious examples are Kenjutsu, Iaido, Kyudo, Taiji (and I'm talking about the most commonly way it is trained here, okay? It's a generalisation, freely admitted...), most Koryu systems in fact.
Just a thought.

I agree, but then again I already covered this Chris! LOL

 

[d1jinx]

Why are all MAs sport? I can make a statement like "all guns are for hunting" but it is obviously not true.
.

Neither is "All Guns are for Self Defense".... some are made just to destroy things!
verkill::snipe::armed::mp5::ripper::wuguns: :biggun: :2pistols: :sig::enfo::apv::rockets:
:tank::snipe2::sniper::stoplurk::uzi::ak47::shooter:

:redeme:




SHHEEEZ so many guns and killin in the smiley's....

 

[Cirdan]

SHHEEEZ so many guns and killin in the smiley's....

That`s the way you can tell it`s an american forum.

 

[Manny]

Ok let me aplogyze, I post wrong, not all MA are sport, sorry but my english sometimes s.....k, simply my brain is clear but some times it's difficult to put my way of thinking in other languaje.

Most of the actual MA have the sport side, and some of the MA emphatizes on sport leaving the self defense beside.

Talking about TKD, there are some dojangs that emphatized on MA/SD but there are so many dojangs where the learning/training is for competition mostly. The same aplyes to another "MAS" like Karate or Judo to name just few.

The whole asumption that people and other MA's have on TKD is that is a heavy contact sport, and that's because again of the emphasys WTF/KUKIWON has put on the sport side of TKD. But please let me take again this... if TKD is a heavy or full contact sport could be work on the streets? in certain degree I must say yes.

A nasty roundhouse kick to the hogu can drop a BG in the streets wearing nothing but a jacket, a nice good back kick even with the hogu can take our breath easily so what about no wearing hogu?? A few weeks ago I got a nice but not to strong back kick above my kidney and I have to back off my partner, if this kick was sperformed right and with all the intention of hurt I would lying on the floor in great pain.

So please forgive me for my post, not all MA are sport, our MA the TKD needs to go to it's rooths and to pay attention more on SD than just competition winning combos by points.

Manny