Water Style

[windwalker099]

This is totally missing in the Taiji system. A Taiji guy is like a guy who stays home and waits for his girlfriend to call him. How can any Taiji person be able to survive in this 21st century aggressive world?

Are you a "taiji " guy ?
Do you practice, teach or claim to represent "taiji" ?
Does anyone acknowledge what you do as "taiji" ?

Don't. care much for "Shuāijiāo"
Don't practice nor claim to represent it.
Have interacted with those that practice it...
Respect those that do, and the method

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Dao De Jing (道德經) by Laozi.

I have issue with "Dao De Jing (道德經) by Laozi".

The following philosophy can only work in a communist society:

Laozi said,

- If you give reward to 1 person, you will make the rest of people unhappy (discourage to be special).
- Soft and bendable is better than hard and breakable (encourage to be slave like).

 

[Xue Sheng]

This is totally missing in the Taiji system. A Taiji guy is like a guy who stays home and waits for his girlfriend to call him. How can any Taiji person be able to survive in this 21st century aggressive world?

No it’s not, but I will say many in and out of taijiquan don’t realize it
for one example tasi/cai referred to as pull, more accurately should be yank.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Are you a "taiji " guy ?
Do you practice, teach or claim to represent "taiji" ?
Does anyone acknowledge what you do as "taiji" ?

I don't like the Taiji conservative approach "If you don't move, I won't move". I didn't like that when I was 7. I still don't like that even today.

I like to use kick to set up my punch. I also like to use circular dragging to set up my throw.

When my main interest conflict with Taiji, I prefer to believe that I'm right and Taiji is wrong.

 

[windwalker099]

No it’s not, but I will say many in and out of taijiquan don’t realize it
for one example tasi/cai referred to as pull, more accurately should be yank.

For me really depends on method, and theory followed
As to what is and it is not a method.

For some methods it may be incorrect, for others correct..
The differences are interesting,,,again reflecting theories in used

 

[Xue Sheng]

I don't like the Taiji conservative approach "If you don't move, I won't move". I didn't like that when I was 7. I still don't like that even today.

You have not trained with my shifu. He would use a fake to get you to move, mostly where he wanted you to move

 

[Xue Sheng]

For me really depends on method, and theory followed
As to what is and it is not a method.

For some methods it may be incorrect, for others correct..
The differences are interesting,,,again reflecting theories in used

Believe me, it’s correct, from Yang Chenfu to Tung Ying Chieh, to my shifu to me.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

You have not trained with my shifu. He would use a fake to get you to move, mostly where he wanted you to move

IMO, that's the right thing to do. But your teacher may belong to the minority in the Taiji society.

I have used circular dragging on many Taiji masters in my life. It proves my aggressive approach always give me that advantage.

 

[windwalker099]

I don't like the Taiji conservative approach "If you don't move, I won't move". I didn't like that when I was 7. I still don't like that even today.

I like to use kick to set up punch. I also like to use circular dragging to set up my throw.

Believe me, it’s correct, from Yang Chenfu to Tung Ying Chieh, to my shifu to me.

Undoubtedly for you, it is...

As you may know, there are other lines of practice that may be quite different...
Not a point of contention for me.

Actually, Tung method was my first intro into the "taiji "world in Hi..
The teacher's direct students of the "Tung" family members there. Master Tung HuLing

 

[Xue Sheng]

IMO, that's the right thing to do. But your teacher may belong to the minority in the Taiji society

Not in his lineage, you likely would have gotten the same thing from Tung Hu Ling and Mak Ying Po. Probably also Tung Kai Ying. Or any serious student of Tung Ying Chieh

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Undoubtedly for you, it is...

As you may know, there are other lines of practice that may be quite different...
Not a point of contention for me.

Actually, Tung method was my first intro into the "taiji "world in Hi..
The teacher's direct students of the "Tung" family members there. Master Tung HuLing

This is the beauty of the online discussion. You say whatever that you believe. I say whatever that I believe. When people look at our posts, they can see both sides of opinions.

- Is aggressive approach better than conservative approach?
- Is conservative approach better than aggressive approach?

 

[Xue Sheng]

Undoubtedly for you, it is...

As you may know, there are other lines of practice that may be quite different...
Not a point of contention for me.

Actually, Tung method was my first intro into the "taiji "world in Hi..
The teacher's direct students of the "Tung" family members there. Master Tung HuLing

Tung Hu Ling and my shifu opened a taijiquan school in Thailand many years ago. So your teacher and I are the same generation

 

[windwalker099]

This is the beauty of the online discussion. You say whatever that you believe. I say whatever that I believe. When people look at our posts, they can see both sides of opinions.

Sorry Mr Wang,

We seem have different ideas on posting, and thats ok

My posts are not beliefs; they are experiences.

As such, until something changes within my interest or someone with the same experience at a higher level shares their insights, I'm not really interested in whether anyone agrees or disagrees with my posts.

It's not "why" I post..

for others it may be different.

What I share is in the interest of discussion relative to other peoples experiences,
Or with those having an interest in, or sharing their experience.

CMA in general had a bad wrap in the 70s.
Spent a lot of time and effort tried to correct this with all that I met.
Not with words..

really not much interested with what others do, out side of my own interest in CMA gen.

Better to share and help each other ...
Then defending what is not practiced by those asking why this or that does not work...

regards

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

My posts are not beliefs; they are experiences.

Experience makes one to believe. So, belief and experience are the same.

- The day when God stands on top of the cloud (experience), the day that I'll believe God exists.
- After I have fell off cliff 100 time (experience), I believe human being cannot fly.
- ...

Aggressive approach works for me (experience) -> I believe in aggressive approach.

 

[isshinryuronin]

This might give a little more info on the method ...
and answer some questions..

It may be a mistake to design an MA style to mimic water or anything else. There is much danger of having that be the main thrust rather than self-defense. I would rather have a good fighting style than a good representation of water.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The clip you posted, shows your teacher using a smaller circle to turn from,,,if the student could make his circle smaller real time,,, what you teacher did would not work....

The water style taiji, an interesting method....in my interactions with it,

You have just pointed out the weakness of the "water" principle - "earth" can stop "water".

If your opponent moves in inch by inch with strong defense (earth strategy), a water style person cannot borrow his force.

In one Karate tournament, my opponent was an "earth" person. He moved in inch by inch with strong defense. I could not find any opening on him. He made me to step back off the ring twice and I lost that fight. I didn't know how to drag my opponent in circle back then.

It may be a mistake to design an MA style to mimic water or anything else. There is much danger of having that be the main thrust rather than self-defense. I would rather have a good fighting style than a good representation of water.

Agree with you 100% on there.

Do you know if "arm dragging" is allowed in Karate tournament or not?

 

[windwalker099]

I would rather have a good fighting style than a good representation of water.

China has a rich history of styles developed at certain points in history, reflecting the unique skill sets, achievements of individuals seeking combative solutions to questions, which would later evolve into distinct styles of their own.

Their answers often inspired by philosophical ideas, natural events, observations of animals and insects.

 

[Same Trick]

I dont know the water-taiji that WW do.
But my thoughts on water - I like the simple theory of M.Musashi that water metaphors for - flexibility/adaptability. If I expand on that with my own thoughts - at high skill, senses may be sharp to the point one may adapt to situations in a way almost as if one already beforehand know the upcoming situation, that would for the opponent be like trying to fight the void…. Void is the 5th and highest stage of Musashis 5 theories on principles and tactics for combat ….and life.

Previously the adoption of”Taiji” as name of the boxing, it’s said it was called Long-boxing, referring to a rivers continuous flow, always finding, adapting and making a path for itself.

 

[windwalker099]

Previously the adoption of”Taiji” as name of the boxing, it’s said it was called Long-boxing, referring to a rivers continuous flow, always finding, adapting and making a path for itself.

What is old is new, what is new is old

Wang Zhuang (王壮) is recognized as the creator of the "Water Style" (水流派)

Background on Wang Zhuang:
Origins and Training: Wang Zhuang's training background is not widely documented, but it is believed that he was deeply influenced by traditional Chinese martial arts and Daoist practices. His deep understanding of these principles allowed him to develop a style that embodies the essence of fluidity and adaptability.

Development of Water Style: Wang Zhuang created the Water Style as a synthesis of his understanding of natural elements and martial arts techniques.
The style reflects his belief in the power of yielding and the importance of inner strength, which he saw as essential for both martial effectiveness and personal growth.

Influence: Wang Zhuang's Water Style, while not as widespread as some other styles, has influenced practitioners who seek a deeper, more internal approach to martial arts. It serves as a testament to the diversity and depth of Chinese martial arts traditions, highlighting the importance of integrating philosophy and physical practice.

Water is commonly used as a metaphor within 武林 (Wǔlín), deeply rooted in the philosophies of Chinese culture

Those I knew, practitioners of it.
very kind, good skill...

Reminded me of Chen style, only very soft, more twisty, no obvious fajin movements.
It should be noted, the practice ie. solo practice, partner practice
not always the way something is used...

Non-practitioners asking other non-practitioners how something might be done can be problematic because they are not practitioners. They can only answer from the perspective of the practices they are familiar with.

For those wanting to know more about the style,,, leave a comment in the Utube video comment section.
or email...

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Water is commonly used as a metaphor within 武林 (Wǔlín), deeply rooted in the philosophies of Chinese culture

Water principle/strategy is used in many MA systems. You attack me, I respond.

In this clip, B throws A because A punches at B. The concern is what will B do if B wants to throw A, but A doesn't punch B?