Water Style

[windwalker099]

Wang Zhuang (王壮) is recognized as the creator of the "Water Style" (水流派) in Chinese martial arts, a style that is characterized by its emphasis on fluidity, adaptability, and the use of internal energy or "qi" (气). This style draws inspiration from the natural movement of water, embodying principles of yielding, softness, and continuity, similar to how water flows and conforms to its environment while maintaining power and momentum.

An interesting method, wondering if there are. any practitioners of it here

 

[isshinryuronin]

I liked the music. Not so much the MA. Both were beautifully flowing, though.

 

[windwalker099]

An interesting method...
As to MA if one can get past their focus, they may find something in another
or not

Bryon, talks about the mind, how it interacts with movement in the context of push-hands...

 

[Xue Sheng]

An interesting method, wondering if there are. any practitioners of it here

Water style is not exactly taijiquan, it is Liu He Ba Fa

 

[windwalker099]

Water style is not exactly taijiquan, it is Liu He Ba Fa

Reminds me of a very soft Chen type of method..

Those I know and have interacted with,
direct students of it's creator..refer to it as "taiji"

I'll stick with how they view. it, what they refer to it as

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

An interesting method, wondering if there are. any practitioners of it here

In your opinion, what is "water" principle used in the Taiji system?

It's difficult to show a principle in solo form training. It's easier to use an application to explain a certain principle. You spin your body. I spin with you and help you to spin more than you want to. To me, that's "water" principle.

 

[windwalker099]

You spin your body. I spin with you, and help you to spin more than you want to. To me, that's "water" principle. IMO, it's easier to use an application to explain a certain principle.

The clip you posted, shows your teacher using a smaller circle to turn from,,,if the student could make his circle smaller real time,,, what you teacher did would not work....

The water style taiji, an interesting method....in my interactions with it,

 

[windwalker099]

Friend of mine giving a demo awhile back..

 

[windwalker099]

It's difficult to show a principle in solo form training. It's easier to use an application to explain a certain principle. You spin your body. I spin with you and help you to spin more than you want to. To me, that's "water" principle.

Friend of mine giving a demo awhile back..

Gary, like you very down to earth and hands on...
His demo in the context of push hands...

He wouldn't talk about it, he would just have a person come at him.
and let him feel "water" principle.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The clip you posted, shows your teacher using a smaller circle to turn from,,,if the other could make his circle smaller real time,,,
what you teacher did would not work....

The water style taiji, an interesting method....in my interactions with it,

Agree that if your opponent's move is small, you may not have enough force to borrow. This is why to wait for your opponent to move, you then borrow his force is too conservative.

It's always better to force your opponent to move, you then borrow his resistance. But that's "fire" and not "water".

Water - the water is calm until you throw a rock into it (conservative)
Fire - the fire will burn wherever there is a dry material around (aggressive).

 

[windwalker099]

In your opinion, what is "water" principle used in the Taiji system?

If you could feel their body, you would feel it rippling like "water"

Kind of like what you mentioned about using 摔角; the 'vibration body technique,' except in Water Style practice, the ripples are bigger. Instead of just being a technique, it's more of a fundamental method that encompasses the entire practice

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If you could feel their body, you would feel it rippling like "water"

Kind of like what you mentioned about using 摔角; the 'vibration body technique,' except in Water Style practice, the ripples are bigger. Instead of just being a technique, it's more of a fundamental method that encompasses the entire practice

Assume you are a water Taiji guy, if your opponent grabs on your wrist, what should he feel?

I try to understand the combat value of the water Taiji - what can water Taiji enhance my combat skill/ability.

 

[windwalker099]

Agree that if your opponent's move is small, you may not have enough force to borrow. This is why to wait for your opponent to move, you then borrow his force is too conservative.

We may have different ideas about this. in my practice there is no waiting.
The encounter itself could be said to be the first move...

It's always better to force your opponent to move, you then borrow his resistance. But that's "fire" and not "water".

Water - the water is calm until you throw a rock into it (conservative)
Fire - the fire will burn wherever there is a dry material around (aggressive).

My background might be a little different from yours. The strategies I use are based on positioning, timing, and distance.

By the time contact is made, it should be over.
Closing the gap, bridging, and finishing...

After a certain level of practice, there's no need for the bridge; it should be about closing the gap and finishing

For many the practice of push hands by most that I've seen, a couple of key combat elements are missing—missing purposely because it's an exercise to develop certain key fundamental principles.

 

[windwalker099]

Assume you are a water Taiji guy, if your opponent grabs on your wrist, what should he feel?

I try to understand the combat value of the water Taiji - what can water Taiji enhance my combat skill/ability.

Sorry, wrong guy..

not much of writer..
If by watching you feel, there's no combative value in the practice.
For you, there is no combative value, nothing wrong with that.

Those who practice it, that I know feel different...
Their practice, is not my practice.

Posted showing an interesting method of taiji, having interacted with those in the group here in the US
wondered if there were any practitioners here..

 

[Xue Sheng]

Use to be a Liuhebafa practioner here, I believe he was in Shanghai, but he has not been here in years

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If by watching you feel, there's no combative value in the practice.
For you, there is no combative value, nothing wrong with that.

This is my logic. One trains

- long fist for foundation building.
- praying mantis for speed generation.
- Baji for power generation.
- Zimen for pressure point information.
- Shuai Chiao for throwing skill.
- water Taiji for ...

People's training time are limited. In order for people to cross train a certain system, there should be a good reason for them.

What's the reason that one should cross train the water Taiji system?

 

[windwalker099]

What's the reason that one should cross train the water Taiji system?

donno

On the video for those interested having the same question,
leave a comment or email ..

 

[marvin8]

Agree that if your opponent's move is small, you may not have enough force to borrow. This is why to wait for your opponent to move, you then borrow his force is too conservative.

It's always better to force your opponent to move, you then borrow his resistance. But that's "fire" and not "water".

Water - the water is calm until you throw a rock into it (conservative)
Fire - the fire will burn wherever there is a dry material around (aggressive).

A blend of Fire and Water...

1. Pull down your opponent into the weak angle.
2. Wait for opponent to rotate (move).
3. Pull up and throw with seoi-nage.

 

[windwalker099]

Use to be a Liuhebafa practioner here, I believe he was in Shanghai, but he has not been here in years

This might give a little more info on the method ...
and answer some questions..

Water style Taijiquan (王氏水性太極拳) was named by Master Wang Zhuanghong, its founder. His interpretation of the Taijiquan Treatise authored by the respected Taiji master Wang Zhongyue (王宗岳) was deeply inspired by the most influential Chinese

Daoist motto, “The highest good is like water (shang shan rou shui上善若水),” from Dao De Jing (道德經) by Laozi. This captures the principle of Wang’s water type Taiji: it mimics the quality and nature of water. Master Wang’s entire set of Taijiquan movements are like the movements of water in nature—rolling waves and flowing currents, ups and downs.

Here Master Gary Lam demonstrates the short version of Water Tai Chi (the first section only). To learn more about Wang's Waster Style Taijiquan, read Wang’s Water Style TaijiquanBy Jeff Lin

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

A blend of Fire and Water...

1. Pull down your opponent into the weak angle.

This is totally missing in the Taiji system. A Taiji guy is like a guy who stays home and waits for his girlfriend to call him. How can any Taiji person be able to survive in this 21st century aggressive world?